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Thoughts on who that might be?
I think there was an attempt with Will, Belle, and Rumple but it went absolutely nowhere and had zero point.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Every main couple has been involved in a love triangle. I don’t see them doing it again.
"All your questions are pointless"
Every main couple has been involved in a love triangle. I don’t see them doing it again.
Neither do I, but not for the reason you gave. Simply, I don’t think the show will last long enough for a love triangle to happen again. But if the show goes on for more than the currently predicted six seasons, then it might. S8 comes along and with it comes some female pirate captain who tests CS or something. The writers fall back on and use the same storylines over and over (usually with a lot of self-plagerization) so if the show were to stay on air longer, then I think they’d totally do another triangle.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Thoughts on who that might be?
Henry, Minnie Mouse and Goofy.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICI don’t think that the Emma/Hook relationship is the single cause for the decline in the show. I think the way Regina was written in Season 2 was the first major problem with the show. She was written as doing all of these horrible things, but we, the audience, were supposed to feel sorry for her. The good guys hung out with her and forgave her in a way that did not make any sense at all. I think that was the initial problem that caused the decline in the show as well as then having entire episodes with pretty much no Snow and Emma. Hook was not even remotely a love interest in Season 2, in my opinion. That was created for Season 3. That was jumping the shark.
Hook had til that moment been awful, trying to kill Emma and Snow, working with Cora, trying to keep Snow and Emma from getting back to Storybrooke, shooting Belle to hurt Rumpel, being locked up in jail and then wandering off to help Cora again, taking part in the torture of Regina, stealing the bean. It was only when the writers decided to change their intention for Season 3 and do Neverland and they decided to do a love triangle with Emma, Neal, and Hook that they jumped the shark. As i said before, i believe the show was declining and making Hook a love interest, creating a love triangle, was the gimmick they thought would keep the viewers interest, a failed gimmick, which i believe was the point at which the show strayed irretrievably from it’s original formula.
I am not even sure if Emma and Neal would have gotten back together. This is not about that. I just do believe that Neal and his relationships with Emma, Henry, and Rumpel were central to later plot points. That Neal’s connection with Neverland as well as being the son of a dark one, now a significant other of a dark one, via Emma becoming the dark one would have made much more sense in light of Neal then Hook. I think the complication of dark one Rumpel’s son and the true love couple Snow and Charming was supposed to be central to the show. I believe that the moment they decided to make a love interest of Hook as a gimmick that they thought would bring in viewers as jumping the shark and that it irretrievably changed the show from it’s original formula.
I think the way Regina was written in Season 2 was the first major problem with the show.
Really disagree with you here. I think Regina’s story from evil queen to redemption might be the only arc they have done well. Is she better evil? Maybe. But her struggle on screen, (and Lana Parrila’s acting) I’ve actually really enjoyed, and would not loop into the jumping the shark conversation at all.
Hook had til that moment been awful, trying to kill Emma and Snow, working with Cora, trying to keep Snow and Emma from getting back to Storybrooke, shooting Belle to hurt Rumpel, being locked up in jail and then wandering off to help Cora again, taking part in the torture of Regina, stealing the bean.
And I also disagree with this. I think Hook was compelling up until he became Emma’s love interest. Colin O’Donoghue was so good at playing an evil pirate, and the he got so soft in season 4. It was tough to watch. what compelled me the most about Hook was trying to figure out where he stood and sided with. He was a mystery but also had very obvious intentions. And he knew he had to walk a tight line with working with Cora and getting his own revenge on Rumple when he himself possessed zero magic and could get screwed in a second. And yet, he talked his way out with words. And then, he fell in love with Emma and his character became bland and awful. The struggle didn’t feel real like it was with Regina.
He just became boring and decided he was done being all revengy and what not. If you’re going to say the show jumped the shark before season 4A, the point where they made CS shippers happy by putting Emma and Hook together was it.
I don’t think that the Emma/Hook relationship is the single cause for the decline in the show. I think the way Regina was written in Season 2 was the first major problem with the show. She was written as doing all of these horrible things, but we, the audience, were supposed to feel sorry for her. The good guys hung out with her and forgave her in a way that did not make any sense at all. I think that was the initial problem that caused the decline in the show as well as then having entire episodes with pretty much no Snow and Emma. Hook was not even remotely a love interest in Season 2, in my opinion. That was created for Season 3. That was jumping the shark. Hook had til that moment been awful, trying to kill Emma and Snow, working with Cora, trying to keep Snow and Emma from getting back to Storybrooke, shooting Belle to hurt Rumpel, being locked up in jail and then wandering off to help Cora again, taking part in the torture of Regina, stealing the bean. It was only when the writers decided to change their intention for Season 3 and do Neverland and they decided to do a love triangle with Emma, Neal, and Hook that they jumped the shark. As i said before, i believe the show was declining and making Hook a love interest, creating a love triangle, was the gimmick they thought would keep the viewers interest, a failed gimmick, which i believe was the point at which the show strayed irretrievably from it’s original formula. I am not even sure if Emma and Neal would have gotten back together. This is not about that. I just do believe that Neal and his relationships with Emma, Henry, and Rumpel were central to later plot points. That Neal’s connection with Neverland as well as being the son of a dark one, now a significant other of a dark one, via Emma becoming the dark one would have made much more sense in light of Neal then Hook. I think the complication of dark one Rumpel’s son and the true love couple Snow and Charming was supposed to be central to the show. I believe that the moment they decided to make a love interest of Hook as a gimmick that they thought would bring in viewers as jumping the shark and that it irretrievably changed the show from it’s original formula.
The way Regina was written in season 2 was horrible, however they managed to fix it with 303 and 309. I don’t recall that the heroes hung out with her except the awkward dinner in 210 that no one paid any attention to her, and Emma kind of invited her as an obligation, and they never forgave her until 3B.
I agree about Hook, he was never ment to be a love interest. His actions in season 2 are too hateful to make him a love interest (which I think every character forgot about it, Belle and Archie sure did). The love triangle was a bad choice. Emma and Hook’s kiss was disgusting and Neal came off as a jerk by competing with Hook while his son is in danger, but I honestly think those were only two instances from what I consider to be a pretty good season (3A).
Neal had more potential (than Hook) as a character because the conflict he had with Emma was real, unlike Hook’s confilcts, which are pretty much forced and pretty much the same (keeping a secret about cursed lips and what he did in the missing year, keeping a secret about doing shady things with Rumple, keeping a secret about his connection with Ursula – basically keeping a secret of some sort). Neal also had a real conflict with Rumple that wasn’t made out of nowhere, and he’s Henry’s dad.
The thing about 3B- 5A is that the narrative revolved around ships, more so CS and OQ and apologizing for bad characters’ behavior (mainly Rumple, Hook, Regina and Robin). That’s why to me 3B is when the show jumped the shark because it wasn’t about family anymore, it wasn’t about what makes sense, it never had a natural plot development, the characters became templates to put the plot on them (ie they served the plot and not the other way like it should), and everything is forced to enable OQ and CS.
"All your questions are pointless"
I think the way Regina was written in Season 2 was the first major problem with the show.
Really disagree with you here. I think Regina’s story from evil queen to redemption might be the only arc they have done well. Is she better evil? Maybe. But her struggle on screen, (and Lana Parrila’s acting) I’ve actually really enjoyed, and would not loop into the jumping the shark conversation at all.
Hook had til that moment been awful, trying to kill Emma and Snow, working with Cora, trying to keep Snow and Emma from getting back to Storybrooke, shooting Belle to hurt Rumpel, being locked up in jail and then wandering off to help Cora again, taking part in the torture of Regina, stealing the bean.
And I also disagree with this. I think Hook was compelling up until he became Emma’s love interest. Colin O’Donoghue was so good at playing an evil pirate, and the he got so soft in season 4. It was tough to watch. what compelled me the most about Hook was trying to figure out where he stood and sided with. He was a mystery but also had very obvious intentions. And he knew he had to walk a tight line with working with Cora and getting his own revenge on Rumple when he himself possessed zero magic and could get screwed in a second. And yet, he talked his way out with words. And then, he fell in love with Emma and his character became bland and awful. The struggle didn’t feel real like it was with Regina. He just became boring and decided he was done being all revengy and what not. If you’re going to say the show jumped the shark before season 4A, the point where they made CS shippers happy by putting Emma and Hook together was it.
I think the only reason Regina was compelling in season 2 was because of Lana’s acting. I don’t know why they thought they would make us have sympathy for Regina by showing us she massacred an entire village and planning to kill everyone in Storybrooke.
"All your questions are pointless"
I think the only reason Regina was compelling in season 2 was because of Lana’s acting. I don’t know why they thought they would make us have sympathy for Regina by showing us she massacred an entire village and planning to kill everyone in Storybrooke.
It’s a fair point. The slaughtering of the village was ridiculous given what they were trying to do with the character. However, I had no issue with the characters not forgiving her until season 3B because she was truly a terrible person to everyone. Forgiveness takes time and it felt realistic. Regina’s entire story arc is the only thing that doesn’t feel rushed on this show. I don’t know if it’s Lana’s acting, the writing, or whatever. Even when evil, she always loved her son. Henry was her moral ground. And Emma’s relationship with Regina over the years is also the best written relationship on the show. And it shall be her and Emma standing together to take down Rumple once and for all……haha I wish.
But back to jumping the shark….as others have pointed out, jumping the shark is something the writers incorporate that seems out of left field just to improve ratings. Just because they wrote away from what made season 1 so great, doesn’t mean they are jumping the shark. If you are one of those people who truly believes they are writing for the sole purpose of shippers out there, then ok. Maybe, because they are attempting to change up the story to please fans and therefore keep the viewers they have. But I just don’t buy it. Writers take risks. They took a risk with Neal and killed him off. Maybe that didn’t work. But as I’ve said before, I think fans get way too caught up in shipping everyone and shipping wars that they think writers do too when the plot happens to coincide with their ship beliefs. I think it’s entirely possible the writers loved Hook, knew the fans loved Hook, felt that Neal had run it’s course, and thought it would be an emotional death, and a way for us to really hate Zelena. And then, Hook gets even closer to Emma and shippers think it’s because there were more CS fans then SwanFire fans. All you can do is speculate. You don’t really know.
If I was writing a story, I would certainly take into consideration fan favorites and what not, but it would not be the biggest factor in my storytelling. I would think that I would have a story I wanted to tell and I would tell it. Obviously if your ratings suck, you may need to change things, but to say they jumped the shark because the narrative revolved around ships seems silly. There were ships going on in season 1 too. Obviously snowing, Emma and Graham, Regina and Graham, Rumple and Belle. The writing has just contradicted itself and has just been generally poor lately but that is not jumping the shark.
I believe that the moment they decided to make a love interest of Hook as a gimmick that they thought would bring in viewers as jumping the shark and that it irretrievably changed the show from it’s original formula.
I agree with much of what you said, but I’m curious about what you (and others here) think that original “formula” was, and how it’s changed. For me, it was the way in which kinship ties, both biological and fictive, drive one to grow as a person. So for example, the fact that the TLK in S1 was about parental love was this wonderful, unexpected twist on the standard folklore.
OUAT then began to emphasize how romantic love is the driving agent of change, as it is meant to (often literally) re-form the other person (seemingly successful and hence celebrated by the audience with CS, and to some extent OQ, unsuccessful and hence condemned by the audience with Rumbelle). An emphasis on romance — and mind you, budding romance, rather than, say, long term marital love is a lot more “run of the mill” and unoriginal, culturally speaking, than the kinship story.
And I think it’s also pretty pernicious. For one, because it sidelines all other relationships. So Snow and Charming, who were first at the core of the story, got kicked to the curb and dumbified in favor of “hotter,” newer pairings. The result of this is that OUAT seems to perpetuate the pop culture stereotype that old married couples are “boring,” and there are no stories to tell about them except for the occasional marital squabble and comic relief. Second, vertical kinship ties (parents/children) now only figure as an explanatory model for why such and such a villain grew up to be a massive jerk (always the parents’ fault, with the refreshing exception of Cruella). And third, it simultaneously essentializes a person’s identity along a polarized Hero/Villain contrast pair (with all the handwringing about whether the former villain is really a hero, should be a hero, can be a hero, ad nauseum over the last 3 seasons… so much flailing over being, or not being a hero, as if that’s actually a thing), but simultaneously requires for that identity (now inscribed and overdetermined) to be overcome for the sake of the romantic partner. That seems to have been the new formula for writing the 3 main “ships” of the show — with small variations with each couple — and since the ships are now the focus of the show (CS in particular), that’s more or less all OUAT’s doing these days. I might be oversimplifying a bit.
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