Did Once Upon A Time Jump the Shark?

[MatthewPaul]

Matt already gave the in-universe explanation but what you pointed to–the manipulative author–is maybe one of the most meta commentaries about the show possible. Issac, the author, was a total stand-in for Adam and Eddy (right down to the famous #NoSpoilers line from Isaac in the AU). He was, essentially, a writer who changes the fundamentals of a character to fit the sort of story they want to tell. The finale of S4 was so self-aware that it makes me think that A and E are actually more aware of what they’ve done to their story than I have previously credited them with.

Another possible meta moment in the series with Isaac:

Emma: We have a lot of questions.

Isaac: I bet you do. *runs off*

Sounds like the fans and Adam and Eddy in a nutshell.

[thedarkonedearie]

Issac, the author, was a total stand-in for Adam and Eddy (right down to the famous #NoSpoilers line from Isaac in the AU). He was, essentially, a writer who changes the fundamentals of a character to fit the sort of story they want to tell. The finale of S4 was so self-aware that it makes me think that A and E are actually more aware of what they’ve done to their story than I have previously credited them with.

That’s funny.  A&E know they have changed the story so much that they created a character to explain why.  Genius?  Gosh if they did it right, that’s almost the best way to explain your writing flaws of the past.  But as you said, it only works if they knew they screwed up.  I think A&E know.  I’m convinced now haha.

[Bar Farer]

Are we talking about the thing with Snow and Charming that didn’t happen? I don’t seem to recall any of the baby snatching or transferring darkness you all are talking about.

"All your questions are pointless"

[thedarkonedearie]

Are we talking about the thing with Snow and Charming that didn’t happen? I don’t seem to recall any of the baby snatching or transferring darkness you all are talking about.

The stuff with Maleficient.  Stealing her baby, putting Emma’s darkness into her (Lilly).  Lilly then getting sucked into a portal with Ursula and Cruella to the real world.  The author manipulated it by writing what he wanted and what he thought would make a better story.  Although as Matthew Paul explained, Snow and Charming were still somehow in control of their actions.  Not sure how that’s possible if someone is writing your actions, but ok.

[nevermore]

As I sit here typing, I can’t quite figure out if the focal shift (from heroes to villains) goes along with the thematic shift (from family to romance) but I do think they work together.

Perhaps it’s a symptom of a paradigm shift in the show: family and other non-romantic relationships (like friendships) at some point were no longer “enough.” I think in the early seasons OUAT actually played with this idea quite consciously, and actively worked to subvert some of the classic fairytale romance tropes: so first, the primacy of the Emma/Henry/Regina relationship, and later Regina’s ultimately ill-fated efforts to resurrect Daniel and cling to the past. Even early OQ was very meta about the “necessity” of romance as an ingredient of a “happily ever after” — but then, all the meta just stopped, and it all became very straight forward. Much of this might be simply a fall back to the “cultural standard” — a sort of regression to the mean over time.

The finale of S4 was so self-aware that it makes me think that A and E are actually more aware of what they’ve done to their story than I have previously credited them with.

I think aware — yes, but self-critical — no. Like they know something’s off, but they aren’t quite able to step away enough from it to fix it (or listen carefully enough to their critics to get a sense of what directions they might take).

The writers likely came up with this idea because they had been struggling to do anything interesting with Snow and Charming for a while, thus this twist was created to mix things up a bit. This also may have been an attempt to further emphasize the grey area between heroes and villains.

I think that another reason to take Snow and Charming down a notch was that OUAT’s concept of “evil” is suffering from a bad case of inflation. So each new villain introduced just ups the ante — both Hook and Zelena are good examples of this. While Cora, Rumple, and Regina had done some despicable things, they weren’t cartoonish in their villainy. Sure, Regina and Rumple were pretty flamboyant, but there was always something very human and almost realistic underneath the carnivalesque antics. S2 Hook, before he went Fabio, started to wander into campy “opera villain” territory. But then came Zelena and made all the rest of them look like boyscouts (and what she lacked in equal opportunity genocidal tendencies, she made up in targeted sadism). But now OUAT decided to take on the project of making her sympathetic. That’s a tough sell if you have any characters that can act as any kind of moral compass. So taking down Snow and Charming from their heroic perch is a way of leveling the field.

I think you’re right that it backfired, and it also didn’t really work. Zelena might be entertaining in her ridiculousness, but I wouldn’t call her relatable or sympathetic. It’s also telling that she’s at her most likeable when she derides the other characters, which have become increasingly unlikeable themselves.

 

[thedarkonedearie]

It’s also telling that she’s at her most likeable when she derides the other characters, which have become increasingly unlikeable themselves.

This is certainly why I appreciate Zelena.  She calls everyone else out on their crap and she always just tells it like it is.

[Author]

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