DISAPPROVE of Tink encouraging Regina to commit adultery

[nonnie]

I was very offended by Tinks encouragement of Regina to commit adultery. Maybe it is my age or the fact I am married to the same man for over 25 years but I thought pushing Regina to look for true love while married was dishonorable. I think Blue might have taken this into considerations beside the fact TINK broke so many other fairy rules… stealing pixie dust, turning big when she was not suppose to, etc.

DID anyone else have a problem with Tinks action? on the grander scale.

Nonnie
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[RumplesGirl]

We were talking about this earlier in the chat today. It does bother me, I’ll admit. I asked something like, “what was she supposed to do? Have an affair?” There is no love between Regina and Leo. He married her in order for Snow to have a mother and I actually really doubt that Leo and Regina ever had sexual intercourse outside of that first night. That’s not the way he thought of her. But does that justify Tink’s actions and if Regina had followed through? I don’t know, in all honesty. She was the Queen. If she would have been found out, she probably would have been either divorced and put aside at best or (a la Henry 8th) had her head chopped off. But..she was miserable. I have to say that. She was miserable. And Tink was trying to show that she could have love again, after Regina thought no one could ever love her again.

It’s a moral dilemma I agree.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

Was she inspiring her to commit adultery, or to find love, and then end her marriage with Leo? We have no idea of the marriage laws in that kingdom but divorce or anullment is actually a concept that predates feudal times so who knows what they would have written in terms of that (already anachronistic) imaginary kingdom.

I hope the idea was that with incentive to walk away from power that Regina would choose love.  Like her mother, she chose power but  unlike her mother, it came more from fear of being hurt again than bloodlust to see others suffer.  At least, at first.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Keb]

I was kind of bothered by that, too, but Tink’s clearly not the most moral of fairies (nor should she be). And we’ve already seen both David and Snow commit adultery (under awkward circumstances) and TL break up potential marriages as well as cursed ones. (And when the heck did Aurora and Phillip decide they were married anyway? Or did they?)

But this is a show that explores a lot of moral ambiguities. Half the fans are rooting for Regina, a woman who cursed an entire world to be miserable to get revenge on a child, who killed entire villages, orphaned children and sent them into the house of a cannibal, and both raped and killed a man because he didn’t kill someone for her…while the other half (with significant overlap rooting for BOTH!) is rooting for Rumplestiltskin, who killed his own wife, got someone else to arrange the death of the woman he almost married next, killed his mute maid for almost no reason and likewise other innocents, and twisted and manipulated any number of people to get his own way, and, oh yeah, was -this- close to killing his own grandson.

And anyone who doesn’t like them is almost certainly rooting for Hook, who shot an innocent woman who had just saved his life, actually killed a couple of guards once (he’s tried to kill a lot more people than he’s managed to kill…), has teamed up with every baddie including very briefly (for once for a good cause) Rumple, whose wife he did steal making him an accomplice in adultery (without taking any of the responsibility from Milah when I state this, as she did make her own choices there), and while he’s been doing a good job of redeeming himself in Neverland so far…we know his alliances have always shifted with the wind.

And these are the bad guys. The good guys have all done jail time…among other things.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

And these are the bad guys. The good guys have all done jail time…among other things.

When all else fails…quote Screwball: http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/59639330618/a-creative-spark-set-afire-acceptable-ways-to

Often times we’re a bit like Henry. The good guys should always be good and the bad guys should always be bad. Doesn’t work that way. The good guys have all done things that are morally ambiguous (or flat out wrong). Tink thought she was doing the right thing. And like KFC said, we don’t know what she was actually encouraging Regina to do besides pointing out a man who was her TL/soul mate.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[MysteryKat25]

I’ll agree that it was iffy for me as well. I didn’t like the David/MM thing in season 1 because while WE knew they were really married, THEY didn’t. Likewise, Regina was definitely married to King Leopold at this point in time when Tink was trying to get her to run off with Robin Hood.

I’m a big believer in not staying where you’re not happy and ideally they would leave one relationship before going to another which I would approve of way more. I do want people to be with who they’re actually meant to be with so it’s a tough situation all around. Everything happens for a reason and I’m sure Regina will be thrilled to find little Roland is a part of the mix and losing loved ones may even help Regina & Robin Hood bond more than they might have initially. I think the pixie dust showed her that he was her soul mate, but it didn’t specify when either. Just a thought…

It doesn’t surprise me that Tink would be the one to suggest such a thing though based on how she is in various versions of the story and had Regina run off, as bad as that would have been, she wouldn’t have really broken Leopold’s heart, Snow would be back to not having a mother, but countless lives would not have been ruined or ended had Regina not gone dark so…it’s just rough all around. I can play devil’s advocate on most things and I can definitely see both sides of this.

Keb – I think they were already married before Aurora went under the sleeping curse but I can’t remember why I’m thinking that. I’ll have to go back and rewatch (I want to say 2×01). As to the rest of what you said, I’m inclined to (mostly) agree with you. All 3 have done horrible things but they definitely still have huge fanbases and we root for them to redeem themselves and find their true loves and happiness for sure. (Otherwise we really wouldn’t have much of a show & it would be rather depressing as everybody would be locked up or dead – so much for happy endings, much less hope, redemption, etc etc.)

Personally, I root for all 3 of them to come around and they’re making great strides in doing so. I’ve been impressed with how far they’ve come even though they have a long way to go still. As for the details of all the wrongdoings (of which there are many for each), we shall all have to agree to disagree on the finer points and/or how we present them. I will say though that Milah went to Hook willingly, he didn’t “steal” her, but yes, that is another example of adultery on the show and he did play a part. That being said, I think we can ALL be thankful that Rumple/Milah didn’t work out because then we would not have RumBelle…or a story.

I do appreciate the overall idea and thank you for pointing it out. We’re not rooting for just the good guys here. Many of us are rooting for change in the “baddies” who were once good people and we want them to be so again. (It is interesting to note that many of the good guys have faced some jail time at one point or another – though we have seen Rumple & Regina spend time in cells as well).

So while I was a little saddened by Tink suggesting such a thing to Regina, I’m also a big proponent of finding who you’re supposed to be with (though generally of them leaving the person they don’t want to be with first!) and regardless of Tink’s suggestion, it didn’t happen that way (though I definitely get why some may find it very upsetting).

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[Keb]

Spreadsheet has some analysis of when we’ve seen people locked up, for whatever reasons. Henry’s family tree is full of scoundrels of varying levels. Even Snow was a thief. It’s not just on his “dark” side.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[nonnie]

We were talking about this earlier in the chat today. It does bother me, I’ll admit. I asked something like, “what was she supposed to do? Have an affair?” There is no love between Regina and Leo. He married her in order for Snow to have a mother and I actually really doubt that Leo and Regina ever had sexual intercourse outside of that first night. That’s not the way he thought of her. But does that justify Tink’s actions and if Regina had followed through? I don’t know, in all honesty. She was the Queen. If she would have been found out, she probably would have been either divorced and put aside at best or (a la Henry 8th) had her head chopped off. But..she was miserable. I have to say that. She was miserable. And Tink was trying to show that she could have love again, after Regina thought no one could ever love her again.

It’s a moral dilemma I agree.

But what about the impact on family / friends On ROBIN HOOD’S FAMILY AND FRIENDS… … If Regina did not have friends a lot of that is her own doing. I have not seen her put herself out for anyone else… even her LOVE for Daniel was limited in that she pushed him around… if they had married she would have been bored with him in a couple of weeks especially if she got rejected by her mom. and had to live without money.

LOOK at what happen to Camelot when Guiniver cheated on Aurthur.

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[RumplesGirl]

LOOK at what happen to Camelot when Guiniver cheated on Aurthur.

Well to be fair we don’t know what happened in the ONCEiverse. We know the traditional story but we don’t know how it played out in our show so we should probably leave it alone.

But what about the impact on family / friends On ROBIN HOOD’S FAMILY AND FRIENDS…

I said it was a moral dilemma, didn’t I? And at that time RH wasn’t married (so far as we know). He would be an adulteer but he’s not breaking up a happy family either. This is a woman who’s happy ending is “seeing Snow’s head on a plate.”

I have not seen her put herself out for anyone else… even her LOVE for Daniel was limited in that she pushed him around… if they had married she would have been bored with him in a couple of weeks especially if she got rejected by her mom. and had to live without money.

Well, we will disagree on that because I totally disagree. She pushed him around ONCE and that was because Cora was there and was a mentally and emotionally abusive woman. Regina had to save face at that moment and couldn’t let Cora catch on that they were in love.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[MysteryKat25]

Young Regina didn’t want power. She didn’t want magic. She wanted to get as far away from her mother as possible and she was in love with Daniel and wanted to run away with him and I don’t think she would have cared about the money much either because she was HAPPY.

The ONLY times that she was remotely mean to him were when she was trying to HIDE HIM from her mother. She didn’t want Cora to suspect that something was going on with them. Regina & Daniel are not Guinevere and Lancelot. She hadn’t married Leopold at the time she was trying to run away, he had just asked her to marry him and her MOTHER accepted on her behalf. They were barely even together so I’m not sure I’d even call it cheating but more of a gross misunderstanding of something she did not agree to. (It wasn’t the best way to get out of having to marry him, but her mother wasn’t an easy woman to get away from, clearly).

Robin Hood is already an outlaw, or should have been by then. He seems to accept other outlaw types into his group, no question. We saw that when he invited Mulan in. He’s never been one to have to have the approval of those in charge. He does what he feels is right. Since he is usually portrayed as an outlaw, and seems to be here as well since he does have his Merry Men, I would have to say he’d probably have been fine with it if truly in love with her.

I think I pointed this out earlier but the pixie dust just showed that they were soul mates. It didn’t specify when. Regina had already lost her last love – Robin Hood had not. He, like in the typical stories, married Marian and had a child and then she tragically died. That’s what usually happens anyway. So now, both are free and have a shot at exploring the fact that they are indeed soul mates. That doesn’t discount her love for Daniel, or his for Marian, but the idea that they have lost love and aren’t destined to be alone now because of it. In fact I quite liked the idea that they said soul mate and not true love. Daniel told Regina to love again and I think the fact that both of them have loved and lost will make them appreciate and understand each other better than a runaway Queen and an Outlaw.

I definitely don’t like the idea of cheating and I’m certainly not defending the actions of anyone. I’m just saying that technically speaking, Regina was only engaged for like 5 seconds because CORA said yes to it and then Regina wanted to run off because it was literally the only way to get away from her mother and the FORCED betrothal that wasn’t her choice to begin with. That I’m ok with. So it wasn’t relatable at all to Guinevere and Lancelot because Regina was NOT married at the time. When Tink suggested Robin Hood she WAS which makes it a highly questionable suggestion but not surprising from Tink. Either way both Regina and Robin Hood are free and clear NOW without any of these pesky adultery questions plaguing them. Everything happens for a reason and the timing wasn’t right.

If you look at it this way, every adulterous relationship on the show has ended badly:

Hook/Milah – Rumple ripped her heart out & crushed it

MM/David – she broke it off & he was going to leave town because he didn’t believe in her like she did in him (note: cursed selves was an adulterous relationship but Snow/Charming WERE still married. However for purposes of this discussion, it still counts because it played out realistically & completely while still under the curse).

Regina / Genie – fake relationship and Genie was manipulated into killing for her but to him, it was still a relationship and Regina was still married to Leopold when it started and Genie ended up getting stuck in a mirror after being used and tossed aside.

Regina / Daniel *(starred because of difference between adultery & cheating but I’ll use it here anyway, see below) – Cora ripped his heart out and crushed it

*Slight difference between cheating & adultery. The main examples were actually adultery since marriage was involved, whereas Regina was NOT married to Leopold at the time. The idea still stands though that it’s not the way to get your happy ending as it ended badly like the others.

I’m sure I probably missed a couple but the point is still there. They are big on finding TRUE LOVE and SOUL MATES and about doing things the right way. It has ended badly when people weren’t free and clear to be with the ones they really loved and we’ve been shown instances where they chose NOT to marry the wrong person as well (see Charming & Abigail). Others, like Regina, were manipulated into marrying someone they didn’t love and that ended badly too.

I completely get why it’s leaving a bad taste as I too don’t approve of the idea of cheating (much less adultery!) but I think it would be unrealistic to not have a single character suggest or participate in such a thing. The fact that they continue to show us how badly things that start like that end is a GOOD thing. I don’t think they’re pushing an adultery thing at all. In fact quite the opposite.

The “happy ending” they’re all searching for is to fall in love and get married and live happily ever after and they’ve shown us time and time again that doing the wrong thing, even for the right reasons, ends up badly, including relationships that stem from cheating/adultery (whichever word is applicable at the time).

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

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