Do you think Malcolm loved Rumple?

[obisgirl]

Malcolm wanted to be young again, to be without responsibility and he had to let go of in order to become young again.  Obviously, he saw his son as the one thing holding him back.  Later in the episode,  he said as Peter Pan that he never forgot him and that’s why he called himself PP but after he let the shadow take Rumple, it seemed like he had some remorse about what he did but did he love Rumple?

[Keb]

I think that’s a complicated question…he cared enough about Rumple to take him to Neverland in the first place, and to give him a home with the spinsters. And to give him the doll.

He’s also offered Rumple several ways out this season–the deal to get little Bae back, the offer of peace/the ability to leave as long as he didn’t come after Henry, etc etc. He’s also playing mind games with Rumple, though…so who knows how much of that was entirely sincere.

I think Pan is (and rightly so if you go by canon–even Disney canon) a bit of a sociopath, so it’s entirely possible that real love, the sacrificial kind, isn’t something he’s capable of. But I do think that he has some affection for Rumple…he just doesn’t let it get in the way of his goals, which are entirely selfish.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

So when I first read the question you posed as a title I literally went “nope.” Especially because I just rewatched 304 and the stuff he says to Rumple around the fire in the flashback….omg. Wow

But Keb makes excellent points. It’s more complicated that “do I love you or not.” I think Malcolm is maybe the most selfish person we’ve met and that overshadows any feeling he might have had toward Rumple. If we want the bleakest scenario possible, then Malcolm could have done worse: he could have killed Rumple for example. Or left him on the streets as a baby.

I do agree that PP is a bit of a sociopath and I remember someone once telling me that Disney actually hated the character because he found him creepy. I just think Malcolm is only concerned with Malcolm. And as the years went by, it only became worse.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

I do think Malcolm tries to justify how he treated his son by pointing out the parallels with Rumple…I think the tiny bit of him that’s still human wants Rumple’s forgiveness, though he’d never admit it–just as the bit of Rumple that’s still human has been desperately seeking Bae’s forgiveness and love for all this time. But if Rumple’s just as bad, then it’s somehow okay that Malcolm cast him off that way…

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

I do think Malcolm tries to justify how he treated his son by pointing out the parallels with Rumple…I think the tiny bit of him that’s still human wants Rumple’s forgiveness, though he’d never admit it–just as the bit of Rumple that’s still human has been desperately seeking Bae’s forgiveness and love for all this time. But if Rumple’s just as bad, then it’s somehow okay that Malcolm cast him off that way…

But the big difference between Rumple and Malcolm is that Malcolm never seemed to regret leaving Rumple. In fact, Malcolm continually goes out of his way to ensure that what he gained when he gave Rumple up sticks: his youth and immortality. Rumple regretted leaving Bae as soon as it happened. MalcolmPan may want Rumple’s forgiveness to a small degree, but not at the cost of loosing what he stands to gain by following his plan. And if Rumple won’t forgive him or gets in his way, then so be it: into the box you go!

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

Thanks guys. All of this is very useful.

[Keb]

Oh, I agree–Rumple is a different creature. He’s fueled by love, but ruthless in protecting what he loves. Malcolm is ruthless without the balancing love. But I don’t think he hates Rumple–just that Rumple keeps him from the powers he seeks. When Rumple’s chosen power over the people he loves, it’s been out of fear (in part of lacking the power to protect those very people); with Malcolm we don’t have that primal motive (at least not yet). With Malcolm, it’s pure selfishness.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

Oh, I agree–Rumple is a different creature. He’s fueled by love, but ruthless in protecting what he loves. Malcolm is ruthless without the balancing love. But I don’t think he hates Rumple–just that Rumple keeps him from the powers he seeks. When Rumple’s chosen power over the people he loves, it’s been out of fear (in part of lacking the power to protect those very people); with Malcolm we don’t have that primal motive (at least not yet). With Malcolm, it’s pure selfishness.

I don’t think he hates Rumple either. But I also don’t think that the opposite of love is hate: it’s indifference. I think Malcolm isn’t totally indifferent to Rumple, but he’s pretty close.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

Well, that’s the sociopath thing…I think if he were entirely indifferent to Rumple, he’d treat him more like Greg and Tamara. Emma, Rumple, and Neal fascinate him on some level. Possibly Hook, too…(We need more Hook/Pan/Tink backstory before this arc ends plz. Also Darlings.) So he toys with them, tests them…and distracts them while he’s pursuing his goals.

Random thought: Does killing Pan kill Rumple because Pan’s a boy now and so it’s like back to the future, Pan never grows up, he doesn’t have a son, so no Rumple?

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[obisgirl]

Keb wrote: Oh, I agree–Rumple is a different creature. He’s fueled by love, but ruthless in protecting what he loves. Malcolm is ruthless without the balancing love. But I don’t think he hates Rumple–just that Rumple keeps him from the powers he seeks. When Rumple’s chosen power over the people he loves, it’s been out of fear (in part of lacking the power to protect those very people); with Malcolm we don’t have that primal motive (at least not yet). With Malcolm, it’s pure selfishness.

I don’t think he hates Rumple either. But I also don’t think that the opposite of love is hate: it’s indifference. I think Malcolm isn’t totally indifferent to Rumple, but he’s pretty close.

Ah ha!

Random thought: Does killing Pan kill Rumple because Pan’s a boy now and so it’s like back to the future, Pan never grows up, he doesn’t have a son, so no Rumple?

I think that only works when you go back in time and kill the father before the child is even born.

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