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. I think Pan is (and rightly so if you go by canon–even Disney canon) a bit of a sociopath, so it’s entirely possible that real love, the sacrificial kind, isn’t something he’s capable of. But I do think that he has some affection for Rumple…he just doesn’t let it get in the way of his goals, which are entirely selfish.
My theory is that when the Shadow turned Pan young, his heart dissappeared. Thats why Henry just stuck it in there without the need of taking out his own. He is just like Cora.
[adrotate group="5"]"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICKeb wrote: . I think Pan is (and rightly so if you go by canon–even Disney canon) a bit of a sociopath, so it’s entirely possible that real love, the sacrificial kind, isn’t something he’s capable of. But I do think that he has some affection for Rumple…he just doesn’t let it get in the way of his goals, which are entirely selfish.
My theory is that when the Shadow turned Pan young, his heart dissappeared. Thats why Henry just stuck it in there without the need of taking out his own. He is just like Cora.
That’s interesting. But it almost sounds like we can excuse everything PP did because “he has no heart.” I think Keb is correct, he’s a sociopath. A selfish sociopath.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think Malcolm does have a degree of affection for Rumple, but it’s not enough. Unlike Rumple, whose whole world revolves around Bae, Rumple isn’t the centre of Malcolm’s world. Malcolm recognises Rumple would be better off without him but he was happy to take Rumple to Neverland with him. Would Malcolm have abandoned Rumple if he could have gotten what he wanted and had Rumple at the same time? I don’t think so. Pan did look regretful when the shadow took Rumple but Pan may have justified his actions by believing that Rumple was better off with the spinners anyway.
Becoming young again must have come with a price for Malcolm beyond abandoning Rumple. Children and teenagers are generally self-centred and insensitive to others feelings, so it’s possible that Pan said all those things to Rumple in 304 because he had the knowledge but lacked the maturity to not be horrible.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI keep thinking back to how Malcolm and Rumple interacted. It wasn’t very father/son. Malcolm was always a child at heart, a selfish one to be sure. But he wanted to play with Rumple. He wasn’t concerned about Rumple’s basic needs, or even Rumple’s own fears, things parents should be aware of. He wanted Rumple to be a friend and play or mess around. Him challenging Rumple to climb a tree to get the pixie dust red very juvenile to me, like an older boy telling a younger boy what to do for kicks.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I agree, he loved but in a very immature way. We see this pattern a lot on once, just like Cora’s father did not know how to be responsible enough to take care of her. Parents can push and be too controlling, but they can also be too lax and uninterested. These extremes are bad either way.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Indifferent – having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned.
Apathetic – showing or feeling no interest, enthusiasm, or concern.
All of these are very good points.
I think Malcolm cared for Rumple as much as he could or was capable of, but it was never as a father/son type of relationship. There was an article before the episode premiered, that Malcolm saw Rumple was more of like a “tag-along” ; like Malcolm was burdened having him around. But he still cared enough for him to bring him to the spinsters, in case he really did plan on abandoning him (before Neverland), at least Rumple was with people who could care for him.
If Malcolm felt complete apathy towards Rumple, he would have left him years ago.
I agree, he loved but in a very immature way. We see this pattern a lot on once, just like Cora’s father did not know how to be responsible enough to take care of her. Parents can push and be too controlling, but they can also be too lax and uninterested. These extremes are bad either way.
Screwball has an essay about how Henry Sr was the “silent partner.” Abusive parents aren’t always the one who’s abusive is loud and in your face. Neglect can do just as much damage
If Malcolm felt complete apathy towards Rumple, he would have left him years ago.
I agree, not complete indifference or apathy. I guess we could “love or cared for in an extremely limited capacity”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I do agree that PP is a bit of a sociopath and I remember someone once telling me that Disney actually hated the character because he found him creepy.
That was me, actually. It was a bit of trivia I found some time ago in Pan’s page from Disney Wikia:
Even though his film was a success, Peter Pan was not one of Walt Disney’s favorite characters because he felt Pan was too immature and cold. This is less prevalent in the Disney parks, however, to enable better interaction between park guests and fellow characters, but he still does not like to be kissed by girls most of the time.
Source: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Pan_(character)
IIRC, I brought that tidbit to the forums a week or so after season 2 ended. Back then there were people in denial that Peter was going to be a villain and were trying to find loopholes, to which I countered that for all his heroic portrayals in media Pan’s personality curiously seemed to be defined by far more negative traits than positive ones, citing Wikipedia and the article above as sources.
Of course, not even I imagined back then that A&E would go this far with making a villain out of PP. This Peter seems completely irredemable to me and death does look like to be the only logical conclusion to his story, which saddens me as I was kinda hoping to see, for once, a Peter that ends up with Wendy. Sigh, so much for that! 🙁
Once Upon a Time Preview: Will a ‘Bomb Under the Table’ Blow Up the Storybrooke Reunions?
“What drives Pan is self-preservation. He is somebody who wants to be 14 for the rest of his life, somebody who is completely selfish and is willing to give up his own child and, as you saw [last week], has no regrets about it,” Kitsis notes. “He really the worst, most selfish part of all of us.”What do you all think of this?
I think it makes perfect sense. And I think it adds to the “Malcolm loved Rumple in the most limited way possible.” For Malcolm it was all about HIM, not his son. It makes me wonder, if Rumple hadn’t gone looking for Malcolm once he got the bean, would Malcolm have ever come back for his son? Or just left him with the spinners?
The one thing that gets me is that A and E have said they don’t do “evil for the sake of evil.” But Malcolm, while he does have motivations outside of pure evilness, is about as close as it comes to “evil for the sake of evil” that we’ve seen on the show.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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