Emma and Rumple and Magic

[evilqueen]

I agree. It reminds me a bit of Jefferson’s quote “Everyone wants a magical solution for their problem, and everyone refuses to believe in magic.” meaning everyone wants a simple, immediate solution to their very much complicated problems and only magic can deliver that. But by doing so, it destroys the balance – it introduces the impossible and so there will be consequences! All those mentioned by PriceofMagic are, however, short-run outcomes, I still believe that on top of that, there will be long-run consequences too and they deeply affect the one using magic – such as clouding the judgement like we saw with Emma.
In FTL only fairies seem to be unaffected by that fact, even though they really do the impossible.. I wonder if there are other rules to magic – e.g. maybe if you keep the balance right, there will be no consequences as such? For example Blue Fairy changed Jiminy into the cricket but she also changed a wooden doll into a real boy – both of those affect Gepetto and from a very general point of view, the world hasn’t been that much affected – there is maybe one more cricket in the world and one less wooden doll but in terms of people, the balance remained – the number of people hasn’t changed… If you know what I mean?

[Phee]

@Chris wrote:

It was really quite interesting to see Emma use magic knowingly for the first time. I also like your ideas of the price being Henry. What if she looses him to magic? Henry was very interested in the whole matter when Regina prepared the sleeping curse in “Into the Deep”, now with his mothers both tampering around with the magical arts, he could easily become “addicted” to it too.

Yeah, I think that Henry being “lost” to magic (as Emma and Regina’s “price”) is more likely than them killing him off. They can’t give him another fake out death, and the show is too family friendly to give a child a real death, (I know we’ve heard of children dying on the show, but this is a kid we actually know and would see die, and that may be a bit morbid for Disney).

There was a thread on here recently discussing what could happen to Henry if he tried magic. I’m starting to like the idea of him giving it a go, because he’s seen his mothers doing it, and having it go terribly wrong and corrupt him. If Regina slides back into using, and back into being evil, she’ll need a major reality check if she’s ever gonna turn her life around for real. If Henry begins going down the same path she did, that could be her reality check to turn her own life around, so that she can save him. They’ve already set up the theme of Regina realising she had become her mother, so they could continue that theme if Henry starts turning bad like she did.

[Slurpeez]

@Phee wrote:

@Chris wrote:

It was really quite interesting to see Emma use magic knowingly for the first time. I also like your ideas of the price being Henry. What if she looses him to magic? Henry was very interested in the whole matter when Regina prepared the sleeping curse in “Into the Deep”, now with his mothers both tampering around with the magical arts, he could easily become “addicted” to it too.

Yeah, I think that Henry being “lost” to magic (as Emma and Regina’s “price”) is more likely than them killing him off. They can’t give him another fake out death, and the show is too family friendly to give a child a real death, (I know we’ve heard of children dying on the show, but this is a kid we actually know and would see die, and that may be a bit morbid for Disney).

There was a thread on here recently discussing what could happen to Henry if he tried magic. I’m starting to like the idea of him giving it a go, because he’s seen his mothers doing it, and having it go terribly wrong and corrupt him. If Regina slides back into using, and back into being evil, she’ll need a major reality check if she’s ever gonna turn her life around for real. If Henry begins going down the same path she did, that could be her reality check to turn her own life around, so that she can save him. They’ve already set up the theme of Regina realising she had become her mother, so they could continue that theme if Henry starts turning bad like she did.

Now that Emma is starting to realize her own powers, I don’t think she’ll be as easily fooled, especially when she learns Cora, not Regina, is up to evil. She saw how magic was Regina’s downfall, and she’d have to be really silly to let herself or Henry go down that path. Also, I doubt Emma will want to practice magic once she discovers Regina’s innocence, since magic is what led Emma to doubt her instincts that Regina didn’t kill Archie. Emma already knows the price she paid for using magic was disrupting the détente that she and Regina discovered in co-parenting Henry at the end of 2×9.

If anything, I believe Emma will try and keep Henry from Regina if Regina falls off of the no-magic bandwagon. The only reason I could see for Emma using magic would be to protect Henry from anyone like Cora or Regina using magic to get Henry. While Emma may use magic to protect her family from Cora, she likely won’t do so more than she absolutely must. I also think she’s on to Mr. Gold, and won’t fall for his manipulations like Regina did. Emma isn’t vulnerable like Regina was, because Emma has her family. Emma knows full well the price Regina paid for using dark magic to make a poisoned apple, which was Henry’s death at the end of S1. Also, when Nealfire enters the picture, he’s going to be dead set against anyone using magic. Bae/Neal knows better than anyone the price of using dark magic, since he paid for it the rest of life growing up as an orphan in a strange land. If Emma, Regina, or Rumple try to use magic with or around Henry, I think Neal could intervene and step up as a father to Henry who discourages magic. Also, I don’t think Charming would want Henry going near magic.

Also, while Henry seems curious about good magic like fairy dust, he’s against dark magic and what it does to those who wield it. He’s read the book and been the victim of the sleeping curse. I really don’t see him “going rogue” or anything like that. He’s got wonderful, loving grandparents and parents in the Charmings, plus a father who hates magic, so I don’t fear him going bad. He’s seen and experienced too much evil to just suddenly give into it.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Chris]

Good thoughts Slurpeez.

I also think she’s on to Mr. Gold, and won’t fall for his manipulations like Regina did. Emma isn’t vulnerable like Regina was, because Emma has her family.

Yet, there is that favor Mr. Gold is owed. He could easily make Emma use her magic for something big so he doesn’t have to pay the price.

Also, when Nealfire enters the picture, he’s going to be dead set against anyone using magic.

If Neal actually is Bae. Sorry I’m not convinced yet. I still think it would be to convenient. And although Henry’s father may be set against the use of magic, how exactly would Bae be able to stop someone like say Cora from leading Henry into temptation. Even Rumple might not be able to help as Regina so apptly pointed out, he has a weakness now, two if you count Bae.

Also, while Henry seems curious about good magic like fairy dust, he’s against dark magic and what it does to those who wield it.

Who said that fairy dust was good magic? All the Blue Fairy, of all people, said about it was that “Its magic is what powers the world”. No word about good or evil. We have seen that it can be used to create realy destructive energies when Mr. Gold and Regina sealed the well. Henry surely would use magic if it presented itself as his only option. I’m sure he would use it to keep Emma or his Grandparents from harm. Would he use fairy dust then, which he perhaps thinks is an instrument of good? Surely. Just a nudge or two from Mother Superior, like she did with Rumple and the Curse would be enough.

Speaking of the Blue Fairy, I just had another look at the scene where she stopped the arrows. She looked rather pleased that Snow decided to spare the Queen’s life. Out of compassion or because of a more sinister plan?

- You know what the issue is with this world. Everyone wants a magical solution for their problems, and everyone refuses to believe in magic.” - Jefferson

[obisgirl]

@Chris wrote:

Speaking of the Blue Fairy, I just had another look at the scene where she stopped the arrows. She looked rather pleased that Snow decided to spare the Queen’s life. Out of compassion or because of a more sinister plan?

I want to say because of a sinister plan because I don’t trust the Blue Fairy, but on this show — probably out of compassion.

[eireland]

I hope that whatever happens, it isn’t too “easy”. I don’t want “Emma has magic” to just be the solution to every problem (it was EPIC, and I mean epic, I STILL get the chills when I watch the scene “love is weakness!” “No, it’s strength”, so good, don’t get me wrong – that is my favourite scene of the entire show thus far, personally). So then Emma used magic this week to solve the big problem – fair enough. I just don’t want it to always be like “our life is in danger” or “something is hard”, “oh well, Emma has magic now” or “Cora is trying to kill us” and Emma just saves the day.

Like I get that she is the saviour, but that makes the entire series too easy and too predictable. So, I hope that they define some rules on Emma’s magic soon too.

I was always wondering if Emma’s heart could be taken in the future, or if that is one of her powers. I thought it would be interesting to find out that Emma’s heart wasn’t able to be taken by Cora in QoH because she sacrificed herself for Snow (kinda like… you know, Narnia… Harry Potter… the Bible…)… but then in the podcast Eddie and Adam said “that is one of Emma’s powers”, so that doesn’t sound like it is a one time thing.

Fair enough. Emma’s heart cannot be taken. By anyone? What about other means of killing someone?

I don’t want it to just be that Emma is off limits now to any big bad because she is the saviour and product of true love. You know?

Not sure if I articulated that well or not, but hopefully it’s clear.

Also – they never talk much about the Blue Fairy and whether her magic comes with a price? Curious about that as well… ?

[Phee]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

Also, I doubt Emma will want to practice magic once she discovers Regina’s innocence, since magic is what led Emma to doubt her instincts that Regina didn’t kill Archie. Emma already knows the price she paid for using magic was disrupting the détente that she and Regina discovered in co-parenting Henry at the end of 2×9.

Good point. Though if Emma had have just kept watching, she may have seen more that would have revealed it wasn’t Regina, so she may not put all the blame on magic, and will at least in part blame herself for having reacted so quickly. But yes, I’d say that she’d probably be questioning the reliability of magic, and would realise that it’s not an instant cure all for any problem. She’s lived in our world long enough to know that solutions don’t come that easy, and if they do, it’s probably too good to be true.

If anything, I believe Emma will try and keep Henry from Regina if Regina falls off of the no-magic bandwagon. The only reason I could see for Emma using magic would be to protect Henry from anyone like Cora or Regina using magic to get Henry. While Emma may use magic to protect her family from Cora, she likely won’t do so more than she absolutely must.

So if Henry wants to use it, just now and then, just to help people, and Emma forbids it, then it’s one of those, “do as I say, not as I do” situations, which could create animosity between them. It could even drive him to try it on the sly, which could lead to no good if he’s trying to figure it out himself. I wouldn’t envision him intentionally setting out to use magic for an evil purpose, but then, Rumple didn’t start out wanting to use magic for an evil purpose either. He wanted to save a family member and end a war, (Henry may end up in much the same situation if he wants to save Regina and end the battle that’s shaping up in SB). The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I also think she’s on to Mr. Gold, and won’t fall for his manipulations like Regina did. Emma isn’t vulnerable like Regina was, because Emma has her family.

Agreed, there’s no way that Emma will be as easy of a target as Regina was.

Also, when Nealfire enters the picture, he’s going to be dead set against anyone using magic. Bae/Neal knows better than anyone the price of using dark magic, since he paid for it the rest of life growing up as an orphan in a strange land. If Emma, Regina, or Rumple try to use magic with or around Henry, I think Neal could intervene and step up as a father to Henry who discourages magic.

Nealfire would certainly be against magic. That could create some interesting tension between him and Emma. Hadn’t really thought about that before, but now I wanna see it happen.

[eireland]

Unless Neal isn’t Bae 😉

[Phee]

@EIreland wrote:

Unless Neal isn’t Bae 😉

I held off for ages on deciding one way or the other, sometimes I thought he had to be, sometimes I thought he wasn’t. Have officially joined TeamNealfire now though, and will be surprised if he’s not.

[RumplesGirl]

@obisgirl wrote:

@Chris wrote:

Speaking of the Blue Fairy, I just had another look at the scene where she stopped the arrows. She looked rather pleased that Snow decided to spare the Queen’s life. Out of compassion or because of a more sinister plan?

I want to say because of a sinister plan because I don’t trust the Blue Fairy, but on this show — probably out of compassion.

I have never trusted the Blue Fairy, though I know the argument against her isn’t that strong. I just really want to know what she was doing all that time while Rumple was putting the curse together, or manipulating Regina into casting it.

Anyway….I agree with what some other people are saying. If Neal isn’t Bae, then the writers have managed to create a huge red herring. That being said, I am 99.9% sure that Neal IS Bae and am just waiting for the big reveal. 🙂
I also really agree that Emma won’t be as vulnerable as Regina was when it comes to Rumple and magic. If anything, Emma is much stronger than she ever has been. She’s found a place where she belongs, she’s found her family, her son, she’s accepted her role as the savior, AND she saw how powerful love really is when she blasted back Cora in QoH. I think it would take her losing everything, like Regina thought she had, for her to go dark side or to fall for any of Rumple’s tricks. And I think the favor Rumple is going to call in will be locating Bae (who of course, will turn out to be Neal) which, after much angst and arguing and hopefully putting August through a wood chipper, will only add to her strength by having the love of her life back.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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