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Thanks, RG! Where did the gone = never gonna see again, no flashbacks, totally gone come from? Are there Adam tweets with regard to the article I should be searching for?
I have been searching for that since Neal’s death. I can’t find it anywhere. I have no idea where that came up. The TVLine article does say
“The character dies, for real,” Kitsis makes clear — at which point his/her portrayer will, make no mistake, leave the show.
But why them? Why not just some random peasant. Take his heart, make him do it.
I’ve only seen the episode once and only saw the first 5minutes of last week’s episode so I can’t verify if they touched up on this (someone can correct me if I’m wrong) but I think she used them specifically because she knew Rumple had the dagger and he wasn’t going to give it up unless it was to protect the one who used the key. It didn’t matter if it was Belle or Neal just as long as one of them used it. Which begs the question, how did she even know that Rumple was dead, with the dagger, and in that vault? She wasn’t even in SB when he sacrificed his life and “killed” his father.
I think you’re right.
But your follow up question is very good. I had been assuming that the dagger and Rumple POOFed to Oz and Zelena during 3×11 because the Vault of Eternal Goo has never once been mentioned.
And now we have more questions.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"But why them? Why not just some random peasant. Take his heart, make him do it.
I’ve only seen the episode once and only saw the first 5minutes of last week’s episode so I can’t verify if they touched up on this (someone can correct me if I’m wrong) but I think she used them specifically because she knew Rumple had the dagger and he wasn’t going to give it up unless it was to protect the one who used the key. It didn’t matter if it was Belle or Neal just as long as one of them used it. Which begs the question, how did she even know that Rumple was dead, with the dagger, and in that vault? She wasn’t even in SB when he sacrificed his life and “killed” his father.
She knew bc Regina told her on 313, but she didnt told her how. So the thing is how did she knew that Belle and Neal were looking to bring Rumple back? How did she knew that he was inside the vault and not really death? how did she knew he could come to live? how did she knew about the key? i think she was the one that put it there, as well with Lumiere, there are many questions about this, that probably will never be explained.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
But why them? Why not just some random peasant. Take his heart, make him do it.
I’ve only seen the episode once and only saw the first 5minutes of last week’s episode so I can’t verify if they touched up on this (someone can correct me if I’m wrong) but I think she used them specifically because she knew Rumple had the dagger and he wasn’t going to give it up unless it was to protect the one who used the key. It didn’t matter if it was Belle or Neal just as long as one of them used it. Which begs the question, how did she even know that Rumple was dead, with the dagger, and in that vault? She wasn’t even in SB when he sacrificed his life and “killed” his father.
She knew bc Regina told her on 313, but she didnt told her how. So the thing is how didn she knew that Belle and Neal were looking to bring Rumple back? How did she knew that he was inside the vault and not really death? how did she knew he could come to live? how did she knew about the key? i think she was the one that put it there, as well with Lumiere, there are many questions about this, that probably will never be explained.
I forgot about that part in 313. But yes to the questions you asked. There are a lot that needed to be fleshed out before they murdered Neal.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I thought this sums up a bit of how I feel
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"If you’ve found me you’ve probably seen the above link to Buffysummers-2 comments about Neal’s death and OUAT where it’s been reposted here on Tumblr.
It talks about the death of Neal, using the character of Rumple.
And it really reminded me of something. Or, rather, it really brought something back to the fore of my mind: how I had come to understand the story of OUAT.
Originally, Rumple was presented to us as an imp (it was unclear even if he were human). But by the time his character was better established in that first bit of the first season, and we met Bae and learned that the entirety of the Curse was so that this man could reunite with his son, Rumple had become the MOST human character on the show. The most rounded-out character of the entire cast (at that point in the series).
I came to think of, and understand the show, ultimately, as Rumple’s show. The other characters were obviously in service to him (he manipulated nearly 100% of them after all at various moments in the timeline), and therefore in service to his story.
A story (Rumple’s) that I took to be headed toward his eventual redemption (by series end), headed toward him being able to surrender the mantle of the Dark One, find his son, return to being human and live a life not wholly dependent upon power/magic, though perhaps he would remain somewhat magical in the end.
This would invert the typical fairytale in that it focused on a present-day villain, and a character moving from magical to non-magical. (As in fairytales, it is a hero that is the focus, and people tend to acquire magic-as-power rather than slough it off.)
I felt I was being told a core story (with other stories occurring around it) of a cowardly man who finally, through his own Curse—where he spent nearly 30 years without access to magic or dark power (though he was real-world powerful enough in town)—would reach a point where he could choose his son OVER that power, where he could go back to being that ‘just a man’ and re-find the good man inside that Bae had known, loved, and wanted so desperately to see again.
And I wanted to watch that redemption/reclamation arc. Even as recently as the trip to Manhattan it still seemed to be there in the writing. In Neal’s apartment where Rumple makes those offers to use his magic and reverse the past. I expected Neal’s refusal to be the first step in Rumple’s realizing he had real, non-magical work to do to change the ‘thing’ that he had become. That he would actually have to confront who he had been, that Coward Rumple would have to be processed and accepted by Now Rumple (both the Dark One and Mr. Gold). That achieving some sort of harmony/balance among Rumple’s many parts would be the key to his redemption. That, and his eschewing the Darkness. (Though I did not know how Rumple might be going to separate himself from the Darkness.)
But it seemed like regaining Bae as Neal, and seeing the opportunity to have a relationship with him would be the key to that puzzle, the spark needed to ignite that desire in Rumple.
But now, there’s no more Bae. You might say, ‘oh, Belle can stand in that position, as pointing Rumple toward his redemption’, but here’s the thing: Belle doesn’t think Rumple needs to be redeemed. Belle loves the darkness, too, so she’s said.
Bae/Neal did not. He would have been a persistent wet blanket to Rumple using his dark magic, and especially to Rumple’s growing more powerful. Sure, Neal would have agreed to using magic against an evil like Zelena. But after the danger had past, Neal would never have been approving of Rumple using the power of the Dark One in all the questionable ways we’ve seen Rumple use it on the show.
Perhaps the difference between Belle and Neal’s reactions to Rumple’s darkness is that unlike Belle, Neal has been directly hurt, damaged, and abandoned by Rumple’s desire for power over love.
Rumple rejected Belle after she tried to give him the kiss of True Love to break the Dark One’s Curse, yes. And then he released her/told her to leave. This would have been heartbreaking for her, but in the usual way of heartbreaking. He was not directly responsible for what later befell her. He didn’t have any idea Regina would capture and imprison her for all those years. As far as he knew, his rejection of her could have led to her having a happy life elsewhere, and the rejection hurt him far more in the long run than it would her.
But Bae is another situation entirely, for he really is Rumple’s victim. Rumple’s choice of power over his son directly led to Baelfire’s abandonment, the loss of a parent (Rumple), growing up alone and in a strange world (several strange worlds, we are told). Had anything but the worst happened to Bae that would have been extraordinary.
Without Bae/Neal, I don’t see a tempering of Rumple coming in the future. I have no idea what Rumple’s redemption would look like (or if I’m supposed to think that his killing of Pan/himself already accomplished that).
I no longer believe that those 28 years of living as an unmagical Mr. Gold were meant to be a step in the right direction for the centuries-old utterly-dependent-on-magic Dark One. To put him back in touch with both his frailties (the limp) and his humanity. I no longer believe that the series wants Rumple to cast off the Curse of the Dark One.
(Oh, how I LOVED those scenes of a scared, again powerless Gold running up to their arrival in Manhattan, him swathed in Bae’s scarf.)
Rumplestiltskin’s storyline/character arc is now growing unrecognizable to me in the wake of Neal’s death. I guess his future involves Belle and the Dark One Curse, defeating more baddies and verbally sparring with Regina. Maybe he’ll have a relationship with Henry (who has no idea who he is). Maybe he’ll have to watch on as the man his wife chose over him has his son’s True Love, and mother of his only grandchild, choose him as well.
But I don’t think we’ll see simply human Rumple again.
And for me, that’s another reason to be sad.
Because the show that I was watching is not the show that I was watching.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
http://swanthief.tumblr.com/post/82528540244/jonsnowgaryen-make-me-choose-everlark1989
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"My heart is still trying to process this episode tonight (and trying to recover from Neal falling into the portal after he and Emma declared their love for each other) so I’m barely coherent right now, but if these two people aren’t together in the end living somewhere happily with Henry (and Snow & Charming and other family living nearby), then I will go postal in ways that are NOT HEALTHY.
I found this back on page 2 of the forums…so Heather, can I hold you to that rampage you promised? I laugh to keep from crying.
Ugh, I actually remember writing that out last spring when that episode ended. I thought I was upset back then but then Quiet Minds happened and it took me five days before I could get through an entire day without getting teary and upset about that episode (and that’s only because real life got in the way and distracted me from my TV viewing when my cousin ended up in the hospital). I’m still not okay about this either and I have to admit that I haven’t been able to watch any of the videos that have been posted here and when I see sad GIF sets on Tumblr, I tend to reblog them and then go right past them because they’re still sad for me. 🙁
Cousin Update: My mom and I went up to see him at the hospital tonight and he’s doing really well. They moved him out of ICU now and to the rehab unit so he’s been busy doing a lot of occupational, speech, and neurological therapy. They aren’t sure how long he’ll have to be there (he’s ready to go home now, LOL) but he is doing SO MUCH better. His memory still has some gaps in it but his vision is better and his vital stats are really good. Thanks again for all the good thoughts and prayers! I’m really glad we got to see him tonight. 😀
*runs off to catch up on the rest of the thread since she’s been out all day*
#MoreBOOMLessGloom
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