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Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Character discussion › Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

  • This topic has 25,813 replies, 124 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 7 months ago by RumplesGirl.
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  • April 13, 2014 at 3:38 pm #261132
    ouatrandothoughts
    Participant

    I thought I was getting over it, but I think what’s really holding me back is the creative betrayal I feel. I really looked up to A&E, they were my inspiration in a lot of ways. I have screenwriting ambitions, and I’m actually starting to second guess them I’m so cynical about the whole thing. That’s so depressing.

    [adrotate group="5"]

    "Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."

    April 13, 2014 at 4:05 pm #261133
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    I thought I was getting over it, but I think what’s really holding me back is the creative betrayal I feel. I really looked up to A&E, they were my inspiration in a lot of ways. I have screenwriting ambitions, and I’m actually starting to second guess them I’m so cynical about the whole thing. That’s so depressing.

    I don’t know why but this week felt harder than the last.

    Today I just don’t have any sort of joy for ONCE being on. I’m like, “oh. Sunday. Right.”

    *shrug*

    It is what it is. We’re allowed to feel how we want.

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    April 13, 2014 at 4:10 pm #261135
    Rainbow
    Participant
    ouatrandothoughts wrote:

    I thought I was getting over it, but I think what’s really holding me back is the creative betrayal I feel. I really looked up to A&E, they were my inspiration in a lot of ways. I have screenwriting ambitions, and I’m actually starting to second guess them I’m so cynical about the whole thing. That’s so depressing.

    I don’t know why but this week felt harder than the last. Today I just don’t have any sort of joy for ONCE being on. I’m like, “oh. Sunday. Right.” *shrug* It is what it is. We’re allowed to feel how we want.

    I think the reason why is harder this week and probably the next ones even more, is because we are seing the reason why they kill him,  seing the characters acting oc, like neal never existed, and everyone saying that we are crazy for still talking about this and how this story was probably planed since the beginning so we need to accept and see the show like we love it and like nothing happened.

    "I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

    April 13, 2014 at 4:19 pm #261136
    Marty McFly
    Participant

    I used the curse to find you Bae. To tell you I’ve made a mistake, and to make sure you have a chance at happiness. And that happiness IS possible, just not with me… I accept that.

    … I love you Bae…

    Those words, said with such raw emotion. I love you Bae. He stood there, totally exposed in front of everyone he’s been hiding from his entire life. Hook, Granny, Snow, Charming, Regina, Emma, people who never heard him admit to any kind of emotion. People with whom he felt safest while looking at though a layered mask… people who never knew his true motivations for anything.

    As pan stood laughing at him, he explained it all. His heart was bare, everyone to see it, enemies and friends alike. Yes, THIS is what I’ve been all about. This is why I did everything I did. This is the truth behind this mysterious and intimidating Dark One.

    Even Belle didn’t know it until recently, when he finally had the courage to remove his mask, to tell her the truth, tell her what he was all about… he was all about making sure his son didn’t suffer the way he did: loveless, empty, lonely life, with nothing to offer anyone but darkness and isolation. No, his son will know that his father loved him so that he will be able to live a full, happy life, not afraid to love others and be loved by others. Now his son can have a chance at happiness.

    …I love you Bae…

    Those words did not need to be said at all. It was so obvious to everyone. No matter how this Baelfire didn’t trust him, no matter how much verbal and emotional abuse was thrown at Rumpelstiltskin in neverland, his response was always, “Fine, I’ll do what you ask… I would give you my dagger if I could… son… have faith in me…” … no one had faith in him, but he didn’t complain, didn’t expect to be treated with any respect, didn’t expect to be forgiven, let alone to be thanked… as long as he could save his boy’s child… as long as his boy will have a chance at happiness. And as he was about to die, about to actively cause his own demise by painfully driving a dagger into his own heart, dulled by first going through his father’s skin and bones, he didn’t have to say those words. He said them anyway…

    …I love you Bae…

    after he admitted his motivations behind every interaction he had with Regina, Snow, Charming, Emma… of course He loved Bae.

    And Bae finally learned who his father really was. Bae went on to live a full and happy life, open to love, open to the idea that in-love is a safe place to be, knowing that he won’t be betrayed, because his father never betrayed him. He was never afraid to love anymore. His happy smile would light up the world forever, and through him and his happy life, Mr. Gold will never be forgotten.
    The End.
    Sigh.
    I loved that story…

    and this is why I officially un-watched 315. this is why I am not watching ouat anymore. the story ended. It was beautiful…
    you will never be forgotten, Mr. Gold. You have been the bravest, truest hero. you gave your son what you never had.. a chance at happiness.

    April 13, 2014 at 4:25 pm #261137
    dontstopbelievin
    Participant

    RG, yesterday I had a thought that the “gap” between 315 & 322 – the waiting game, to see how the season ends up – has become less a question of “will Neal return” and more a, “Will RG find hope again?” I cheer every time I see you find a spark of hope, so I hope to see it again soon. I definitely understand it’s easier NOT to hope right now though!! TRUST me I do, kind of wish I could feel the same and move on. But, like it or not, the trolls have me until 322. After that, we will see. My love of the show predates this as a ship, and I go back and forth between, “I love the show most of all,” and, “The show I loved most of all died when it killed one of its most central characters and irrevocably altered its message.”

    Anyways. I worked an event yesterday, in a rural parking lot where we had absolutely no traffic, and so I spent several hours essentially staring at a billboard for a company called “Ariel.” Needless to say, thoughts wandered, and I started pondering that episode, and the triangle. I have had some thoughts, and they are probably crack-y, but I did have a thought with regards to how one might see a death/resurrection of Neal as necessary to resolve the triangle (and theoretically the shipping wars.) Someone, some many pages back, illustrated the resolution of the triangle as being Emma standing in front of the two guys, pointing at one of them, and exclaiming, “YOU!” It made me giggle. Certainly, that would be the simple resolution, but since we’re not watching The Bachelor, it is not likely as cut-and-dried. But, still, whichever guy she chooses, there is the possibility of ambiguity – she chooses Guy A, but she doesn’t NOT choose Guy B. It leaves the wiggle room in fans’ minds that if it were not for Guy A, perhaps Guy B would have a chance.

    If – and it’s a huge if, I accept – what they have done is temporarily remove Neal from the canvas; there is no triangle any more. As it stands at this moment, she cannot NOT choose Hook because she is choosing Neal, because Neal is not there. So if at this point she shoots Hook down (and in my TV viewing experience, I think there is a significant chance that because tonight’s previews went so far towards implying one thing, the episode may well deliver the exact opposite,) it is because she is NOT choosing Hook – not merely because she is choosing someone else. I can see where the writers MIGHT have felt the need to have her clearly not choose him, ever, under any circumstances – for her to effectively say, “I know I can’t choose Neal, but I am STILL not choosing you, not because I hate you (or whatever,) but because you are not right for me.” This is not an either/or situation, it’s a Guy B is not right, regardless of whether Guy A was right or not.

    To me, it goes back to how I viewed her conversation in Dark Hollow, where, “This is not a contest,” read to me as – there *isn’t* a competition. From Emma’s POV, that was not a Hook vs. Neal situation, because the two were not on equal footing – TO EMMA, there was no contest. It wasn’t, “Should I pick Neal or Hook,” but rather, “How do I deal with my feelings for Neal?” and then also, there is this pirate trying to confess his undying love. She just kind of… doesn’t deal with it, sidesteps him, over and over. I was astonished to find in my rewatch that MOST often, Emma’s reaction to Hook is one of… annoyance. I just don’t feel like we’re going CS, no matter how much the previews may imply that’s where we’re headed. I have my fingers and toes crossed Emma puts an end to this foolishness, for once and for all. (I don’t really hold out hope that it will actually happen, but I am crossing my digits that it does.)

    I am wandering, but point being, I can see justification from the direction of the writers to feel the need to end the triangle with each duo on its own merits. I can see where they MIGHT feel it is a good idea to completely remove one side of the triangle, then resolve the other side, no interference. Then when they reinstate the initial side, the only issues that need to be dealt with are the ones in that relationship, without interlopers. I can see where they might get the (IMO, misguided, unfortunately) idea that if they deal with each relationship as not Emma choosing one guy or the other, but rather, assessing each guy individually – no, this doesn’t work; yes, this does work – it might forestall the fanbase wars. After all, how can one fanbase blame the other guy for their ship not sailing… if the other guy is dead? Granted we all know fanbases don’t work that way, but I can see TPTB thinking it is a grand idea.

    Anyways. As someone who is now watching the show week-to-week, trying to decide if the show has a) completely changed course or b) is being written as ‘the end justifies the means,’ and the means is junky but the end will be awesome, I am just pondering these things. I expect tonight to be a really key episode in the direction of not just the shipping wars but the show for me. Are they going to go ahead and retcon Emma, make her take up with a pirate for whom she has shown few affections a mere two days after her TL died? Or are they going to write her in character, and finally give her the gumption to say, “Knock it off dude, I’m just not that into you?” I think the former is more likely – and it will likely be the final nail in the coffin for me, NOT because I am all, “I’m not gonna watch if there is CS!” but because it reinforces the hard left the show has been taking since 314. (I actually don’t mind CS, or I should say, I didn’t mind it until I rewatched and realized that if CS were an actual relationship, it would be an abusive one. And it terrifies me that they are going to portray that as okay. If a guy says he loves you, you should ignore the part where he throws you into the wall, because he’s hot and he’s a good kisser ‘n’ stuff. *rollingeyes* But I digress.)

    Stupid hope.

    Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

    April 13, 2014 at 4:45 pm #261139
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    RG, yesterday I had a thought that the “gap” between 315 & 322 – the waiting game, to see how the season ends up – has become less a question of “will Neal return” and more a, “Will RG find hope again?” I cheer every time I see you find a spark of hope, so I hope to see it again soon.

    Ha.

    I think we’ll get one more appearance of Neal for 322 for some magical “goodbye” to Henry and then that’s it. I really and truly can’t put any stock in the “he’ll be back” theories. They way they chose to end him, for me, singles that they wanted it done quickly so that he’s forgotten as soon as possible.

     

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    April 13, 2014 at 4:51 pm #261140
    emmaswan
    Participant
    dontstopbelievin wrote:

    RG, yesterday I had a thought that the “gap” between 315 & 322 – the waiting game, to see how the season ends up – has become less a question of “will Neal return” and more a, “Will RG find hope again?” I cheer every time I see you find a spark of hope, so I hope to see it again soon.

    Ha. I think we’ll get one more appearance of Neal for 322 for some magical “goodbye” to Henry and then that’s it. I really and truly can’t put any stock in the “he’ll be back” theories. They way they chose to end him, for me, singles that they wanted it done quickly so that he’s forgotten as soon as possible.

    like some magical recording “if you’re seeing this then I’m dead, but I’ll always be with you” kind of thing? That would be worse than 315 and another slap in the face to Neal/Baelfire fans.

    April 13, 2014 at 4:53 pm #261141
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster
    RumplesGirl wrote:
    dontstopbelievin wrote:

    RG, yesterday I had a thought that the “gap” between 315 & 322 – the waiting game, to see how the season ends up – has become less a question of “will Neal return” and more a, “Will RG find hope again?” I cheer every time I see you find a spark of hope, so I hope to see it again soon.

    Ha. I think we’ll get one more appearance of Neal for 322 for some magical “goodbye” to Henry and then that’s it. I really and truly can’t put any stock in the “he’ll be back” theories. They way they chose to end him, for me, singles that they wanted it done quickly so that he’s forgotten as soon as possible.

    like some magical recording “if you’re seeing this then I’m dead, but I’ll always be with you” kind of thing? That would be worse than 315 and another slap in the face to Neal/Baelfire fans.

    That or some sort of afterlife whiteroom dream sequence complete with cheesy harp music.

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    April 13, 2014 at 5:01 pm #261142
    emmaswan
    Participant

    That or some sort of afterlife whiteroom dream sequence complete with cheesy harp music.

     

    I really hope not……

     

    BTW RG  with all your visits to tumblr and other various sites, any good neal isn’t dead theories out there? I’ve been looking but seems like people are fairly resigned to his death. Though I did see someone on another forum state quite matter of factly that MRJ was signed on for season 4. I figured they were just talking out of their you know what though since we haven’t even gotten confirmation of a season 4 at all yet.

    April 13, 2014 at 5:55 pm #261144
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    BTW RG with all your visits to tumblr and other various sites, any good neal isn’t dead theories out there? I’ve been looking but seems like people are fairly resigned to his death. Though I did see someone on another forum state quite matter of factly that MRJ was signed on for season 4. I figured they were just talking out of their you know what though since we haven’t even gotten confirmation of a season 4 at all ye

    I’ve seen very few “Neal will come back” theories–most people seem to think 1) that he really is dead and 2) even if they can turn it back, they want MRJ far away from the show that treated him this way.

    I haven’t seen anything to suggest that MRJ is singed for S4.

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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