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What do you all make of Neal not mentioning Tamara or seemingly moving on to Emma so quickly. I’m actually kind of tired of hearing other people making such big a deal of it. Maybe Neal really thought he loved Tamara but realized he didn’t. Or maybe he was so afraid of getting rejected from Emma that he wanted to fall in love with someone else and there was Tamara conveniently inserting herself there.
I also grow weary of hearing this same old argument. I think that while Neal allowed himself genuinely to fall for Tamara, it was only because he thought he didn’t deserve a second chance with his true love, Emma. For Neal, Tamara was always settling for second best when what he really wanted was another go with Emma. The reason he didn’t go after Emma when the curse broke is what Mulan said to him in 3×1: Neal let his fear of rejection cloud his belief that love can overcome past hurts. Also, the reason that Neal was able to move on so quickly from Tamara is because this is a TV fantasy drama and Neal has too much to occupy him like saving Henry and loving Emma. Also, why would Neal mourn the loss of a woman who never loved him, who nearly killed him and then kidnapped his son?
Either way I really don’t care but I suppose we need some closure and some explanation from Neal on his side of it. I think it’s easy for a person who has never really had a family or anyone to put them first (father choosing power over him, mother choosing another man over her son) to think they are in love with someone who acts like they love you in return. I’m sure Tamara said and did all the right things to make Neal think that she was falling for him. Do I think it disturbing that Neal just moved so quickly from Tamara to Emma? No, because he never moved from Emma to begin with.
I completely agree. Tamara played the part of the perfect girlfriend so well that it was simply easier for Neal to settle for that relationship than it was to risk rejection again from the woman he really wanted, Emma. He thought Emma would never forgive him for what he did to her, and so he took the easy way and pursued another woman, perhaps with realizing he was settling, as a defense mechanism against further pain from rejection from Emma. Also, as someone else pointed out here a few pages back, Neal is only human and we humans tend to settle for the kind of love we think we deserve. Neal settled for second best because he thought he didn’t deserve a second shot at forming a family with Emma, because he deeply hurt her. How could he allow himself to hope that she’d ever forgive him if he couldn’t even forgive himself?
Had Tamara never betrayed him and they were all still in SB, eventually Neal would have realized that his “love” for Tamara wasn’t real. He would have realized that he still loved Emma and that he was fooling himself.
I think you’re probably right. Rumple said to Neal that his son would never really marry Tamara, not while he still carried a torch for Emma. Also, there was the little fact that Tamara was secretly sleeping with another man, Greg Mendel. Neal probably would have figured out Tamara was having an affair eventually. How long could she really keep that a secret without Neal finding out? All Neal had to do was check her phone for text messages from “HIM.” Even if Tamara hadn’t shot and wounded her fiancé, whom she never really loved, I doubt Tamara would have actually gone through with the wedding, no so long as she really loved Greg.
This happens in real life too. But that’s what I love about Neal and Emma’s love. It’s real. It has ups and downs. There is terrible pain and anguish and all of that has to be dealt with. Both of them have family abandonment issues that they have to mend before they can even think of being with each other again. But in the end they will get through it and their bond will be even stronger for it.
Exactly! I firmly believe that Eddy and Adam chose to write this episode because for them, Neal and Emma are their own creation, and they planned the story in such a way from the beginning that Emma, the savior of the curse, would fall in love with Baelfire, whom the curse was intended to locate. Neal and Emma were two lost children who found one another in a world that wasn’t their own, and despite all the odds, found each other again after that same wretched cursed tore them apart. And now that Emma and Neal have found each other for a third time, I really think that Neal isn’t going to miss his opportunity to let Emma know he’s never again going to leave volitionally. He’s here for keeps and she needs to learn to have hope to accept that her happy ending, everything she’s ever longed for, could be standing right in front of her in the shape of Neal. As Eddy Kitsis said in the “Manhattan” official podcast,
“So for us it’s how do two people who love each other come together when there’s so much hurt?” – Eddy Kitsis (From the “Manhattan” official podcast)
This is the story that Adam and Eddy are telling: the story about how couples who love each other, and yet who have experienced pain, can learn to reconcile in a way that overcomes supernatural obstacles but which is nevertheless fully relatable and applicable in real life. Emma and Neal are both from the Enchanted Forest, and yet they have grown up in our world where they have come to expect only unhappy endings. Despite their jaded expectations, however, their story is about learning to find hope to forge their own destiny for a happy ending of their own, together.
And again, in the “Straight on ‘Til Morning official podcast, Adam Horowtiz said:
Podcaster: “So what’s your favorite scene from this episode?”
Adam Horowitz: “For me, it was watching Emma lose Neal. As heartbreaking as it is, it was so emotional, and so gut-wrenching, and they both played it so great, but to be at that moment that you can admit those feelings are still there, but then to lose the person you love, I mean there’s nothing that’s more heartbreaking than that.” – (Second Star To The Right podcast)
I think that Adam and Eddy are writing a story that shows Emma and Neal’s individual journeys, and how they’ve had to deal with their own heart brake, and how they’ll eventually come together. They have to learn to overcome abandonment issues from their parents and heartbreak from their own breakup. They are two unique, real-world, very human characters, whom I believe Adam and Eddy really have intended for one another as a happily-ever-after sort of way (eng-game). This story is about how Emma and Neal can learn to overcome all of the crap life has thrown at them to allow themselves to believe that true love can overcome rejection, fear, abandonment, and pain. How can anyone deny that Emma and Neal don’t really love each other? They do! Emma and Neal have said they love each other more times than Rumbelle and Snowing probably have combined.
GIF source: Tumblr
PS) Can I just say how annoyed I am that “Ship thread” no longer recognizes that SF have “mutual romantic love,” despite the fact that Emma repeatedly has told Neal she loves him and he’s admitted his love for her. Grrrrrrr! It’s one thing to have an opinion and label it as your own, but it’s another to pretend like it’s an “objective fact revealed in the show”! Anyone who says otherwise in my opinion is living in denial because of a CS bias or some other reason. Okay, rant over.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
What do you all make of Neal not mentioning Tamara or seemingly moving on to Emma so quickly.
I think it’s a 42 mins TV program that was going for gut wrenching emotional moments instead of pushing for more substantial character development. The secrets told weren’t really earth shattering except in the wake of feels. I have faith that all these issues people point to about Tamara will be dealt with but last night wasn’t the time because it didn’t fit the structure of the show.
Also, as someone else pointed out here a few pages back, Neal is only human and we humans tend to settle for the kind of love we think we deserve. Neal settled for second best because he thought he didn’t deserve a second shot at forming a family with Emma, because he deeply hurt her. How could he allow himself to hope that she’d ever forgive him if he couldn’t even forgive himself?
Yup. Neal has self loathing issues just like his Papa. He doesn’t think he deserves Emma’s love or forgiveness. But he’s human.
Even if Tamara hadn’t shot and wounded her fiancé, whom she never really loved, I doubt Tamara would have actually gone through with the wedding, no so long as she really loved Greg.
In 221 Tamara tells Greg that as soon as their mission is over the engagment ring is coming off. She had no interest in actually being wed to Neal
Exactly! I firmly believe that Eddy and Adam chose to write this episode because for them, Neal and Emma are their own creation, and they planned the story in such a way from the beginning that Emma, the savior of the curse, would fall in love with Baelfire, whom the curse was intended to locate. Neal and Emma were two lost children who found one another in a world that wasn’t their own, and despite all the odds, found each other again after that same wretched cursed tore them apart. And now that Emma and Neal have found each other for a third time, I really think that Neal isn’t going to miss his opportunity to let Emma know he’s never again going to leave volitionally
Mmmhm. Preach
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"PS) Can I just say how annoyed I am that “Ship thread” no longer recognizes that SF have “mutual romantic love,” despite the fact that Emma repeatedly has told Neal she loves him and he’s admitted his love for her. Grrrrrrr! It’s one thing to have an opinion and label it as your own, but it’s another to pretend like it’s an “objective fact revealed in the show”! Anyone who says otherwise in my opinion is living in denial because of a CS bias or some other reason. Okay, rant over.
I agree especially since if SF doesn’t have mutual romantic love, how in the world can CS!?! Emma has NEVER SAID that she feels anything for Hook on the show itself. A kiss is a kiss, in fact she tells Snow that it meant nothing (granted she might be hiding her true feelings but we don’t actually know what they are other than what Emma tells us). But when Emma says she loves Neal and Neal says he loves her, that’s not considered “mutual romantic love”? Okay, okay. I’m done. I was just really really upset about it but I didn’t want to start anything in the chat.
"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."Some more Neal/Emma vids
Emma and Neal – Heart
Emma and Neal – I love you and I probably always will
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
http://cimrk01.tumblr.com/post/66018031257/emmaswans-it-hurts-because-emma-swan-has-never
Proud Keeper of the Dinglehoppers
Astrawoid and Slurpeez: I totally feel the same about the “all the ships thread” but I summed it up this way:
Obisgirl is absolutely entitled to express her opinion as she sees fit in her thread. I only wish to state I do not, by having mistakenly participated in it under the assumption it was simply a list with no classification, share those opinions (too much work for mods to delete previous posts so just writing this instead). Please carry on with your thread and enjoy.
I’m not upset at her point of view, as Screwball said, you can’t tell people who to love but I didn’t realize it was an opinion thread rather than an attempt to just list things.
Anyway all the confessions in the Echo Cave shared a theme: replacing love. This is a theme some of us suspect that PP and Rumple have in that way of being a younger brother resented by older one in the PP origin story. He was really after Snow’s confession to unnerve Emma, but the other ones also left her weakened, except I don’t know that Hook’s unnerved her so much. That one I think was aimed at unsettling Hook and Neal.
Emma’s confession is upsetting her because she’s basically saying she knows she cannot replace him, and it hurts every time she’s lost him and she doesn’t want to face it again. She started doing dark magic. She kissed Hook. She is unraveling. She doesn’t want to add any more darkness into her life and her anger, sadness and pain over their previous relationship is just too much right now.
He understood. He loves her, and he isn’t even going to try to replace her again, and he is going to fight to let her know despite how scared she is, that she can trust that he loves her.
Hook is ready to replace Milah, Snow is ready to replace (to some degree) Emma, David sadly fears Snow will have to find a replacement for him–but Emma was not ready to replace Neal, even if she wasn’t ready to accept his love.
She was like that with Henry too at first. She’s scared of being hurt again, and needs reassurance and I was happy that Neal understood it.
Some people want to bend over backwards to make Neal the “bad guy” here, but it’s really hard to me to logically say Neal did anything wrong in response to what Emma said to him. He just took it all in and responded that he will fight for her and he won’t give up. He knows he’s fighting the darkness that’s taken root in her, and it was a total parallel shout out to Belle saying the same about Rumple.
Emma’s pushing him away for much the same reasons Rumple pushed Belle, and it is nothing to do with Hook really.
Hook did go first, after saying the deeper you go, the darker your secret must be, so I think he chose a more minor secret. He’s genuine in thinking he has feelings for Emma, but I think he’s just really confusing the desire to love again, with the desire to love the only available non-murderously crazy girl in the group who gives him the time of day. (Tink remember hasn’t been hanging out with them too much, and I think the writers might play up flirty Hook again when they are ready to shelve mopey Hook pining over Emma).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Emma’s confession is upsetting her because she’s basically saying she knows she cannot replace him, and it hurts every time she’s lost him and she doesn’t want to face it again. She started doing dark magic. She kissed Hook. She is unraveling. She doesn’t want to add any more darkness into her life and her anger, sadness and pain over their previous relationship is just too much right now.
Beautifully put
He understood. He loves her, and he isn’t even going to try to replace her again, and he is going to fight to let her know despite how scared she is, that she can trust that he loves her.
Yes
He just took it all in and responded that he will fight for her and he won’t give up. He knows he’s fighting the darkness that’s taken root in her, and it was a total parallel shout out to Belle saying the same about Rumple.
He owed it to her to listen to her secret. He owed it to her to look her in the eyes and hear it all without complaint, noise, or rebuttal. He knew that.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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