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Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Character discussion › Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

  • This topic has 25,813 replies, 124 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by RumplesGirl.
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  • November 4, 2013 at 4:12 pm #221092
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    More pain.

    Gaaaa *sobbing*  That is perhaps the most tragically beautiful video yet.

    [adrotate group="5"]

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 4, 2013 at 4:34 pm #221101
    astrawoid
    Participant

    More pain.

     

    Ugh.  The feels.  Yes, pain.  Such a lovely but painful video.

    *sobbing*

    "We were happy."
    "Because... it was born out of true love."

    November 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm #221106
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    I recently watched the fabulous 2002 film adaptation of Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens, which I highly recommend (it’s on Netflix). In that version, Anne Hathaway plays Madeline Bray, the love interest of  the protagonist, Nicholas. She has lived a very hard life being the motherless daughter of a father who was crippled by debt and has grownup in the debtors’ prison. Madeline’s initial response to Nicholas’ declaration of love to her is so similar to Emma’s current vulnerable frightened state at discovering that Neal is alive and loves her. In the movie, Madeline asks if Nicholas knows what it is to be afraid of happiness, to see the world as so conniving that one cannot take pleasure in the appearance of something good, because she fears it will only lead to further disappointment.

    I think that is very similar to the current situation that Emma is in. She’s lived with abandonment issues for her entire life, first when her parents sent her to Earth to break the curse and then again when Neal let her go to save her family. Emma is afraid now to trust or to hope that she could really ever have a happy ending at all with anyone, let alone a second chance with Neal. Here is that beautiful scene between Madeline and Nicholas (I could’t find a non-subtitled version):

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 4, 2013 at 5:00 pm #221107
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    I’ll have to check out the movie. “What if you cannot or will not save me?” I think that line is exactly what Emma is feeling. She doesn’t want to fall (metaphorically) because what if he’s not there to catch her? Right now they are reminding me of Rumbelle a bit. Rumple doesn’t want to believe that Belle will be there if he decides he wants the Happily Ever After becuase no one has ever been there to catch him before (Milah, Cora)

    She’s lived with abandonment issues for her entire life, first when her parents sent her to Earth to break the curse and then again when Neal let her go to save her family. Emma is afraid now to trust or to hope that she could really ever have a happy ending at all with anyone, let alone a second chance with Neal

    Yes. Emma doesn’t know how to be wanted because she’s never felt that she is wanted. She has to learn to trust that Neal’s not going anywhere. I love that last night he didn’t force his feelings on her. He listened to what she had to say; he told her never to apologize because he knows what he has put her through; but that he’ll wait and fight for her. And then he walks away to prove that he respects her feelings.

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    November 4, 2013 at 6:44 pm #221121
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    I found a thing that tops all things and has reduced me to a sobbing pile of sadness

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    November 4, 2013 at 7:10 pm #221124
    kfchimera
    Participant

    I wouldn’t say she “never” felt wanted, that’s the tragedy there, is that he made her feel that way.

    “is this what you really want?” she asked.

    “What I really want is you,” he replied.

    Then he left, and that is why it hurt so much.  It made NO sense to her.

    She had the watches, they were almost home, why leave her?  Why call the cops, then weirdest of all: the car key and car.  She spent 10 years working through it.  By the end of it she had no answers except pain and heartbreak.

    Then she had all the weird stuff with Henry and SB, and the curse, and then weirder still to find out he is Gold’s son.  Now it all made less sense.

    There are so many things about him she never knew, and yet she does know  him.  He didn’t lie about loving her.  She knows that now.  She just doesn’t know what to do with it, and I think Slurpeez is right, that she is afraid she can’t trust that life will let her be happy.    The weird is finally hitting her.  She is not in any fairytale but here she is in her own in the darkest part of it, and she does not quite believe it can end happily yet.

     

     

    “If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

    November 4, 2013 at 7:46 pm #221129
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    I was just re-watching the scene when Regina leaves the Charmings to rejoin Rumple, saying it’s a “heartbroken fool’s errand” to save Neal. While Emma starts to wonder if Regina is right, that this could be PP’s trick, mamaSnow steps in to give her daughter hope. From “Ariel” 3×6:

    Emma: What if she’s right? Pan could be lying.
    Snow: Just because it seems too good to be true, doesn’t mean it is. Don’t give up. You owe it to Henry to find out if his father’s still alive. And you owe it to yourself.

    Emma wants to believe that PP could be tricking her, because Neal being alive means that Emma has to face her painful past. She is afraid that if she opens her heart again to the possibility of love, that she’ll get hurt again by Neal, but this time only worse. And yet, here is her mother telling her daughter she owes it to herself to know if Neal is alive, because Snow knows that represents hope for her daughter. Hope for a second chance at a family. Hope for a second chance with her parents and hope for second chance at true love. The next heart-to-heart mother-daughter scene comes when Emma confesses to kissing Hook. Snow is quick to tease out her daughter’s real motives. Is kissing Hook just another wall for Emma to hide behind so she doesn’t get hurt when she discovers Neal is alive? I think so, and it’s the same reason that Neal pursued Tamara rather than Emma, because he didn’t want to risk getting rejected. From “Ariel” 3×6:

    Emma: I kissed him!
    Snow: What? Who?
    Emma: Hook! I kissed Hook!
    Snow: Oh! Wh-why?
    Emma: I don’t know. I was…It’s been awhile, and I was feeling good. I don’t know.
    Snow: Did it mean anything?
    Emma: It–it was just a kiss.
    Snow: I’m sure Neal will understand.
    Emma: If he’s still alive.
    Snow: Emma, I get what you’re doing you know. You don’t want to open yourself to the hope that he’s alive, but you should.
    Emma: Why?
    Snow: Because you deserve a happy ending, Emma, and happy endings always start with hope.

    Snow White sees the way her daughter is afraid of happiness, because being happy means risking loss. Snow realizes her daughter is afraid of getting hurt again. Sound familiar? It’s the same conversation that Emma had with her mom when she discovered when that Neal was Mr. Gold’s son in “Manhattan” 2×14:

    Snow: Wait. Gold’s son is Henry’s father?
    Emma: I know. I know. And the millions of questions you have, I have, too. The problem is, it doesn’t matter right now because I don’t know what to do.
    Snow: Please tell me you’re not calling to ask me to tell you to keep it from him.
    Emma: Henry thinks his father is dead. I told him that for a reason. I want to protect him.
    Snow: No matter what this man did, Henry has a right to know who his father is. The truth about your parents… Emma, you of all people should know how important that is.
    Emma: I don’t want Henry to get hurt. I just want to protect him.
    Snow: Are you sure this is about protecting Henry, and not yourself?

    For all of Snow’s rainbow and unicorn stickers, she is amazingly sharp at sussing out people’s true motives. Snow understands that her daughter has lived a hard life and that Emma is jaded as a result. In 3×1, Emma scoffed at her mother for being “infuriatingly optimistic” to the point of naiveté. And yet, the best thing that Snow has to offer her daughter is hope. She sees her daughter struggling with a low sense of self-worth. Right now what Emma lacks is her mother’s unfailing faith that love is enough to overcome fear of rejection, fear that Neal won’t be there for her again, fear that she herself is inherently unworthy of true love. The only way says Snow that Emma can achieve her own happiness is hope. This is precisely what Mary Margaret told Emma in the pilot episode, that these stories are there to inspire us, and offer hope.

    Snow: Look, I gave the book to him because I wanted Henry to have the most important thing anyone can have. Hope. Believing in even the possibility of a happy ending is a very powerful thing.

    Snow has the gift of reading people like a book. Snow’s ability to read that Emma is scared of getting hurt parallels the flashback of when Snow observed that Ariel was afraid of getting rejected by Eric. Snow gives very similar advice to her friend in the flashback as she Snow gave Emma in NL:

    Ariel: I made a terrible, terrible mistake.
    Snow: You met him. It’s a start.
    Ariel: More like an end. I can’t ask him to give up his dream for someone he just met.
    Snow: Maybe you’re the dream.
    Ariel: Maybe. But I can’t make him choose. It’s not right.
    Snow: You can’t make him choose? Or you don’t want to make him choose? You’re afraid.
    Ariel: Of what?
    Snow: Of his choice.
    Ariel: There’s noting about any of this that’s easy…
    Snow: So take my advice. Do the hard thing. Be honest. No secrets. Open your heart to love, because it is so worth the risk. Even if you get hurt, then you’ll know you tried.

    Snow’s astute diagnosis of Emma’s and Ariel’s fear of rejection also parallels the assessment that Mulan gave Neal when he expressed his regret of not going after Emma in “The Heart of the Truest Believer.”

    Mulan: You say you’re fighting for Emma, and yet she never mentioned you when she was here. Why is that?
    Neal: Because I broke her heart. I let her go so that she could break the curse and fulfill her destiny. When it was broken, I could have gone after her, could have told her I loved her. But, I was afraid that she would never forgive me, so I wound up taking the easy way out, just not trying.
    Mulan: Your belief in love wasn’t strong enough to overcome your fear of rejection.
    Neal: No, it’s the greatest regret of my life, not one I wish upon anyone.

    Neal admits to Mulan that he took the easy way out with Emma and says the biggest regret of his life was not going after her when he had the chance. Snow challenges Ariel to do the hard thing by taking a chance on love, and also tells Emma not to give up hope. See what the Adam and Eddy are doing here (who wrote all 3 episodes: “Manhattan”, “Heart of the Truest Believer” and “Ariel”)? Both Snow and Mulan astutely recognize that Emma and Neal are both afraid of risking rejection. Both Emma and Neal have deeply-rooted abandonment issues from when their parents let them go and from their own breakup.

    Without getting too spiritual, St. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:13,

    And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    Mulan says Neal’s faith in love was not enough to overcome his own fear of rejection, and Snow is telling her daughter that what she needs is hope to find her happy ending. Neal and Emma need  faith and hope to find love again to discover that love truly is the greatest power of all, strong enough to overcome past pain and to forge a new future.

    Also, I think it’s clear as day that Snow White ships SwanFire as much as Ginnifer Goodwin does in real life. MamaSnow has an uncanny understanding of Neal, despite the fact that they have spent next to no time together, because Snow is so similar to him in many ways. Both Snow and Neal have had to put up with parental figures, Regina and Rumple respectively, who are so consumed by the power of dark magic that it drove both Snow and Bae to become thieves to survive on their own. Both Neal and Snow are on the receiving end of a lot of misplaced anger from fans who root for their favorite villains and blame the victims (see Screwball Ninja’s excellent essay on this topic). Both Snow and Neal made the same painful decision to let Emma go to fulfill her destiny to break the dark curse. And both Snow and Neal had to allow their loved ones, Charming and Emma respectively, to think they no longer loved them so as to protect him (Charming) or get her home (Emma).

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 4, 2013 at 7:56 pm #221130
    kfchimera
    Participant

    Slurpeez, that was beautifully put.

    “If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

    November 4, 2013 at 7:59 pm #221131
    lunatiger
    Participant

    slurpeez108 Can I just say that you are brilliant!?

    Agree with everything you’ve said. Great comparison with Neal and Snow.

    November 4, 2013 at 8:09 pm #221133
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    I would like to marry Slurpeez’s post.

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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