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I don’t have time to post much right at the moment since I’m currently at work but I’d like to thank you all for all the AMAZING SF feels and for almost making me bawl my eyes out while sitting at my cubicle desk, LOL 😆
*passes out cookies to the entire thread* 😀
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#MoreBOOMLessGloomMickstemp wrote: Neal’s using the coconut in the latest spoiler photos. Let the constellation scene speculation begin…
It doesn’t look like the same constellation coconut to me. It looks like a coconut with rope around it. I was thinking it was a weapon or something like that.
Edit: Okay I looked at a closer pic of Neal with the coconut and now I think it is the constellation coconut but with ropes around it strategically placed maybe so it can be read properly?
"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."Rg, *hugs* and a salute/tipofthehat/and every gesture of respect for moderating and promoting a welcoming, tolerant forum.
I just rewatched the last episode, and you know, it occurs to me that Pan probably expected (like all those who rag on Neal) that Neal wouldn’t react that way. Neal’s learned a lot though since he was an angry lost boy, hurt and alone. He’s grown up and even from when Emma first knew him, he has, and she’s going to start noticing that, and realizing that all the things she loved about him are still there, but made even better by the confidence he now has in himself. The confidence her love brought out in him.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I just rewatched the last episode, and you know, it occurs to me that Pan probably expected (like all those who rag on Neal) that Neal wouldn’t react that way. Neal’s learned a lot though since he was an angry lost boy, hurt and alone. He’s grown up and even from when Emma first knew him, he has, and she’s going to start noticing that, and realizing that all the things she loved about him are still there, but made even better by the confidence he now has in himself. The confidence her love brought out in him.
I love this last line!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"True Love Vs “Love” Love
I believe every one has two True Love’s. One is Soul Mate, your significant other, the other is the kind that is shared by a parent and child. We seen both on Once Upon a Time . True Love is unconditional. No ifs ands or buts. There is never a “Maybe I could love you if…” Nope without any conditions.
Kids love their parents and vice-versa (for the most part). Even with the biggest of criminals, saying mean things about someone’s parents can will get you killed. Even if the parents are terrible children will always love their parents. Neal loves his dad. Is he angry? Definitely . Pissed off? 100%. Does he REALLY REALLY want to hate Rumple? No doubt. Does he? No way. When it came down to it and Rumple was about to die, he was there at his deathbed and doing all that he could to save him.
Henry loves his mom. Both of them. Henry loves Emma and Emma would risk the world for him, but Regina’s love is not in question. Her parenting skills? Highly questionable. But her love? Never. And Henry has always been willing to forgive and believe the best- he is the owner of the heart of the truest believer thus he is unwilling to give up on his mother. His love is that of a child. Unconditional. True Love.
Same with the romantic kind. You can love a lot of people. I’ve actually watched both Manhattan and The Miller’s Daugher numerous times. And, Milah loved Rumple, No doubt . It’s clear that she loved him. She didn’t love him unconditionally. Same with Cora, power was more important to her than Rumplestiltskin. Belle, on the other hand, loves him unconditionally it makes their love true
So, Neal and Emma, personally I think Swanfire is endgame. because their love is unconditional Neal forgave Emma for the confession Emma forgave Neal for leaving her. Does it hurt her? Yes. Does it make her stop loving him? No. I think hooking ( pun intended) up with the bad boy is in her future, yes, but will it last? I don’t think it will because I really think Hook’s True Love was Milah he loved her unconditionally and I think Hook has another future.
That’s my opinion. It’s definitely up for interpretation.
Count me as another who doesn’t get all the Neal hate and is starting to get really annoyed with it too. He’s also one of my favorite characters and MRJ seems like such a sweet guy….I shudder to think about the tweets he gets from these hater people. 🙁 I think I’ve got four pretty distinct reasons why other people seem to hate him though and all of them can be debunked if they just pay attention and actually watch the same show as the rest of us. 😉
1. Neal is in the way of Emma/Hook: Last time I checked, Emma is perfectly capable of making her own decisions as far as who she might want to be with but right now, I think they’re all a little distracted by the whole ‘Henry was kidnapped by Peter Pan’ thing to be thinking too much about love. Obviously we believe that Emma & Neal are endgame but the pieces are there for something to happen between Emma/Hook too. It’s all too early to predict at this point and I trust that the writers aren’t going to drag this triangle garbage out for too long (the fanbase won’t survive more than one season of this, LOL). This also may be a case where people need to chill the frack out and let the story play out before they go into snotty fan mode, LOL 😆
2. Neal left Emma pregnant and alone and never searched for her: OK, first, Neal didn’t know Emma was pregnant at the time and if he had known that, no way would he have left her and then this show would have a WAY different story going on right now. People seem to conveniently forget that Neal has his own issues with the whole abandonment by his father thing that he’s still not over AND being abandoned by Hook in Neverland AND being stuck there for hundreds of years AND growing up as a loner who never found a home or a family (well, he did have the Darlings for about 2.5 seconds but obviously that was broken too). Neal has not had an easy life at all and finding out that your father created this evil curse to try to find him, which ultimately caused Emma to grow up alone and without her parents, was just crushing for him (we saw that in Tallahassee….I wanted to give him a hug so badly). There was no good choice for him in that situation and he did what he thought was best for EMMA, not for him, which we know wasn’t easy for him. And that whole not searching for her thing? Mulan said it best, “Your belief in love wasn’t strong enough to overcome your fear of rejection.” TRUTH. Dude was terrified that Emma would hate him for what he did and he took the easy way out by not searching for her and finding someone else because he felt unworthy of her love now. He’s only admitted his mistakes about a hundred times this season but apparently everyone else is allowed to make mistakes and get forgiveness for them but NOT NEAL. Grrrrrr, I feel a bigger rant coming on but I really need to finish this post so I can dry my hair and get some sleep. Whoa, that was random, sorry guys, LOL 😉 /end random tangent
3. Neal treated Emma badly after they met up again in NY: I have NO IDEA why people are using this as a reason to hate Neal because all I saw between them was understanding that HENRY needed to come first, some awesome sass between them because that’s how they roll, and a lot of getting to know each other all over again because it had been such a long time. He never yelled at her (she actually yelled at him a lot, LOL), he never threw anything at her, didn’t beat her, never talked down to her, he never threw her out of his room (even after she broke into it which is one of my fave scenes EVER BTW—“Oh hell no, I taught her that! EMMA!! 😆 ). He had no reason to believe Tamara was bad at that point and he didn’t treat Emma badly over it. I honestly don’t get this one at all and the fact that people keep using it annoys the ever loving snot out of me.
4. They don’t see Neal as Baelfire: I personally think there are a LOT of people out there who haven’t connected that Neal and Baelfire are the same person. They’re so used to Dylan playing Bae that they haven’t been able to accept that Neal is grown up Bae. I don’t think they’re seeing that grown up Bae isn’t the same sweet innocent boy who was always trying to do the right thing. He’s a grown up now who’s completely scarred by his father’s actions, scarred by being alone for such a long time, scarred by having to learn how to survive on the streets for a long time, scarred by his time in Neverland, scarred by what he did to Emma, scarred by finding out he’s a father (and that he actually left Emma alone and pregnant…his eyes during Manhattan when he finds that out just broke me the first time I saw that ep :(), scarred by Tamara’s betrayal, and scarred by Peter Pan’s actions now which are threatening the only family he wants in the world right now. They just don’t see him as Bae and I don’t understand that one either.
I’ve ranted enough tonight. Time to dry my hair and go to bed. Thanks for reading my rambling rant tonight! 😉
#MoreBOOMLessGloomheatherc1275 I totally agree. I also feel the complaints about Neal are absurd. Many of which are uncalled for towards the actor himself.
I just wanted to add two more frequent ones I’ve been seeing around the web as of late. This is in no way trying to demean CS shippers, but this is seriously getting out of hand.Complaint #1
“When did Neal ever start fighting for Emma???”-This one really makes my blood boil. Have we not forgotten all the things he’s done for her before and after coming back into her life without complaint??? Let’s see here…
-Gave her everything he has so that she could get on her feet again after she got out of jail. (Damn it August!!!)
-Rushed into his apartment to defend her when his father was threatening her. (Might I add, who also didn’t want to face his own emotional pain with his father in nearly 200 years, but he did it anyway. He faced his fears)
-Defended Emma against Cora and Regina and had her back when they were toe to toe
-Had Emma’s back again when they were hunting down his fiancé (even when Emma had no evidence against her.)
-Sacrificed himself to be sucked into the portal so that Emma wouldn’t get sucked in with him and make Henry an orphan.
-Survived a bullet wound to the chest and traveled all the way to Rumple’s castle to find a way to get to Emma and Henry and save them from Neverland.
Point of fact… When has Neal ever stopped fighting for Emma.If you’re going to blame Neal for leaving her to fulfill the prophecy, then you are also by default blaming the Charmings who did the exact same thing, (in many case probably worse, since they shoved an infant into a tree who could not walk, talk, let alone defend herself, to a strange new land and hope for the best) The Charmings and Neal see eye to eye with each other. They knew they had to let go of Emma for the greater good to save their people and all the realms the curse has affected, but they didn’t realize the pain that she would go through to get there. That was their mistake and their regret. One that they’ve both shown they want to rectify. Perhaps the reason why Snow isn’t against Neal is because they are both a like in many ways. Both not wanting to take a life, both thieves at one point in their lives, both having to “hurt” the ones they love so that they won’t get hurt. (When Snow made Charming believe she didn’t love him so that King George won’t kill him) Both risking their lives selflessly for people they hardly know.
Complaint #2
“He’s being sooo pushy when he said, I’ll never stop fighting for you. Give Emma some room! How dare he fight for her now!”*Sigh* The poor guy can’t win can he? Which is it people? You blame Neal for not fighting for her then you blame him because he is fighting for her.
People have also taken this line waayy out of context. Neal was not forcing himself upon Emma. He merely meant to say if she’s ever in trouble he’s got her back. When she needs him, he’ll be there for her. When she’s down, he’ll look out for her always. This does not mean “you’ll be mine forever and ever”. He did not say “I want to be with you.” He realizes she’s still hurt and he realizes she needs time but if she ever needs him he’ll be there. If she’s ever facing a mad crazy psycho demon, then yeah you can count on him.
But the best thing about Neal is that he is inherently like that with everyone, not just Emma, there’s an equal share of his love to everyone. You know you can pretty much count on him if there’s someone in need. If for example Emma’s parents are in danger, then Nealfire will jump right in. You know he’ll be good to all of Emma’s friends and family, not just her. No need to worry if he’ll screw over someone when Emma’s not there.For example:
-Sacrificing himself to the shadow so that Wendy won’t lose her brothers.
-Saving his father from dying, even though he hated his guts. He’s still his papa
-About to charge right in between Regina and David’s standoff so that Henry wouldn’t be hurt.
-Saved Dr. Whale from being a wack-a-mole by his dear old dad.
-Prevented his father from killing Lost Boys (even though they were his enemies)He never lost young Bae’s spirit, which is pretty remarkable consider all the crap he went through that would make anyone go stark raving mad. Not once has he ever thought about taking revenge. Not once did he consider taking a life. Like *Ahem* someone who needs not be mentioned.
The hypocrisy of it all is astounding.
While Hook can get away with abandoning Bae. Neal can’t be forgiven from abandoning Emma? Why the favoritism? You sold out your lover’s beloved son, the one that she regrets leaving, the one that you wanted to make a family with, the son of love of your life that you couldn’t get over for 200 years. Sold him like cattle. Not even because it was for his own good, but because of petty jealousy and anger. God forbid Emma dies and Henry somehow pisses off dear old step-dad. I’d hate to see what Hook will do to Henry. This is pretty much double standard, ladies and gents.Funny enough, I’ve been going through my old posts on this site and see that I’ve been shipping Swanfire ever since Tallahassee. I kept the faith. Many of my predictions and hopes have come true. And I’ve notice that we Swanfire fans have hope, faith, and belief in our system. Whenever we posts about Swanfire it’s always with optimism through the darkness. We have a rough long journey before any of this gets resolved. But I know that our faith will be rewarded in the end.
OK sorry…rant over….thinking happy thoughts…. 🙂
Complaint #1
“When did Neal ever start fighting for Emma???”-This one really makes my blood boil. Have we not forgotten all the things he’s done for her before and after coming back into her life without complaint??? Let’s see here…
PREEEEAAAAAACH!!!
He never lost young Bae’s spirit, which is pretty remarkable consider all the crap he went through that would make anyone go stark raving mad.
Which is why it infuriates me so when people say they love Bae but hate Neal because he’s so different. Like, seriously? I know, subjective lens and all, but the things you’ve listed so well in your post are actual, indisputable events that have happened on the show. Are we even watching the same show as the other side?
The hypocrisy of it all is astounding.
While Hook can get away with abandoning Bae. Neal can’t be forgiven from abandoning Emma? Why the favoritism?
(Note I am NOT implying that I personally consider MRJ ugly, but alas, that IS an argument that they put out there, even to the point of tweeting MRJ about how he’s not cute but Colin is.)In the case of the “fight for her” stuff, it seriously baffles me because:
“A man unwilling to fight for what he wants, deserves what he gets.” = KILLIAN IS A HERO.
“I’ll never stop fighting for you.” = NEAL IS THE DEVIL.
Seriously, you cannot have it both ways!
If Hook honestly believes in that mantra of his, then him hearing Neal say that to Emma should by rights make him respect him and how he feels. That’s why I figured they showed Hook hearing it. He had to know where Neal stands if he’s gonna make a properly informed decision about what he truly wants for himself.Something sweet to lighten the mood…
http://maddi-missmellark.tumblr.com/post/66117220661Why I loved the “I’ll never stop fighting for you” line:
–he’s saying he’s got her back now, even if he screwed up before
–he believes she’s worth it
–Belle’s belief, from Mulan: “When you find something worth fighting for, you never give up.”
–Mulan also influenced him to hope for a second chance, and fight for one
–Hook himself has said a man unwilling to fight for what he wants deserves what he gets…so Neal is not like Daddy in this regard. (He did get some good traits from Papastiltskin, but we haven’t seen Rumple fight very hard even for Belle yet…though his main enemy is himself.)
(also can we just adopt Mulan into the floof family please?)
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
In the case of the “fight for her” stuff, it seriously baffles me because: “A man unwilling to fight for what he wants, deserves what he gets.” = KILLIAN IS A HERO. “I’ll never stop fighting for you.” = NEAL IS THE DEVIL.
This is one that really gets to me. I know it goes both way: those who don’t like Neal never will; those who don’t like Hook, never will. But I do think this is a bit of a double standard happening here.
*cookies*
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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