Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[Phee]

BTW what has ever given Henry logical reason to think Emma would sleep in her car? What an odd statement to make, taken from that angle. Anyways.

There is no logical reason considering they’ve been sleeping at Granny’s, so why on Earth would he think that Emma would end up sleeping in the Bug if she didn’t have an apartment? Surely the logical assumption is that she’d keep living at Granny’s. So, yeah, Henry’s line about sleeping in her car was completely random…unless it wasn’t.

Hi, that guy dying in your arms? TLK is a really legit thing to try – maybe his Dad (who totally ships y’all!) could suggest it. If we can burn coconuts and split hearts and and and, a little TLK is a cakewalk. But no.

What makes it even more…interesting, that they passed up that TLK opportunity, (right after having said the words “true love” in relation to them no less), is that since then we’ve had a “kiss” on the other side of the triangle that did the opposite of what TLK typically does, (taking away magic instead of creating it). Know what would make for a nice way to round this little part of the story out…give her another chance to try the TKL with the guy she didn’t try it on before and BOOM.

We will instead bust out Timey Wimey things and alter the past… where we enlist help from the ONE guy invested more than anyone in ensuring the guy stays alive. There’s a way, oh, there’s a way.

I keep thinking about how Neal’s death was “bold story telling.” When I think of that term, I think of something new and innovative that we haven’t seen on the show before. With Neal’s death, we got a child going down the same dark path as a parent, (NOT innovative), a guy self sacrificing himself for the 100th time, (NOT innovative), the father of the dead guy struggling with his redemption and falling back into old habits, (NOT innovative). Now, time travel, that IS something new and innovative and dare I say “bold” for this show. They could have killed Zelena and rebooted the time spell any old way, it didn’t HAVE to involve Neal’s death and Rumple’s regression at all. So the “bold” part of the story about Neal’s death still has to be coming, right? That means it should be a Thing in the story line for the finale, right?

But if they *don’t* have that will, no amount of logic will make it so.

Yep. As much sense and potential as there is in these things we’ve speculated about, at the end of the day, whether or not sense and potential prevail is out of our hands. So who knows. *SIGH*

[dontstopbelievin]

As far as the mobile goes, I’m actually NOT cool with it being gifted to baby bro. He is their do-over kid; he’ll be raised with his parents’ love and as the kingdom heir. From Snowing’s perspective, I totally get having another kid, no ill will. But from Emma’s end, there’s no way to deny “replacement child” syndrome. She doesn’t seem to harbor any animosity, but still – this girl has so very, very, very few things of her own, from her own childhood – that it seems awfully mean to take the one tangible thing (aside from the blanket) we’ve seen floating around since S1 and just be like, “Here ya go kid, you can have this, too.” It just strikes me as really, really wrong.

My guess would be writers have a specific idea for how to use it down the road – I mean, we had no idea the top was a dreamcatcher til 314 – but who knows if we’ll ever see follow-up on that.

Switching subjects, I had a passing thought that may or may not materialize into something. In 320, we had Glinda/Zelena/Regina introduce the idea of making your own destiny. One of the things with Emma is that she’s never given the choice of how her life will go – her parents opted to “give her her best chance” and let her go; Neal did the same. Henry came to get her and she became the savior. Then at 3×11, although she is the only one who “could” have stayed or gone, she again had no choice in the matter – family to EF, her and Henry to LWM. When Hook came to get her after the lost year, she sort of had a choice – but knowing her family was in danger and Henry’s stance on heroes, not really. Interestingly, she seems to lay that blame on Hook, which (I can’t believe I’m saying this) IMO is not where it belongs. Anyways. We saw it again in 319, when she said it to Hook – “That should have been MY choice,” but again, someone tried to take it from her. All of the people in her life, who claim to hold her most dear, have made choices “for” her and generally, despite the absolute best intentions, it just ends up hurting her.

So when we get to 321, there is real potential for Emma to make her own destiny. If the story is told well, she has the choice to literally erase painful events from her past. Parents never meet? Won’t exist, no pain. Parents meet, but she tells Rumple, “If I tell you where your son is, you don’t enact the dark curse, and I get to be raised by my parents, deal?” Rumple heads to Neverland and baby-Emma stays in the EF, raised as a princess by loving parents… and never having to go through any loss with Neal (no abandonment in Portland, no SSTTR death, no 315 death.)

She also has the ability to look at those situations and say, “The pain was worth the end result, I have my family now and most importantly I have Henry.” Without those two key hurtful things in her life, she would not have that child – and was he worth all of the hurt? (I think the answer is a very easy yes.)

It brings us back to SF – and to echo cave, honestly. Is it easier to lose the life she has, now, than it is to face the pain all over again? And I hope, sincerely, we see it drawn back around – if she has the ability to do something (or ask Rumple to do something) to bring Neal back, is it worth that pain? Or is it easier to wish him to stay dead? She’s had it both ways, and though I wish the answer were as simple a yes as it is for Henry, I am not sure that it is.

The writers have an opportunity to tell a really great story of Emma’s character development with the finale. They have around 85 minutes to tell this story; that’s the length of a feature film, so they certainly CAN tell it well. We have been hearing about finale for a while and all parties involved seem really excited about it. So I am kind of looking forward to it; I am hoping we get MO322 of course but I am honestly hoping for two hours of good storytelling. Having six weeks of crap storytelling to set up an awesome finale doesn’t really EXCUSE those weeks, but if it provides reasoning for it, at least that’s something.

So if Emma is afforded the option to choose her own destiny, what would it be? I can state without hesitation it would include Henry. Based on what we’ve seen lately, I also feel confident in saying she has no need for pirates. As for her TL, if she’s given the option to choose her own destiny, does it include him? I sincerely hope it does. She’s had the opportunity to live that destiny without him, so maybe given the option, she’ll choose a different path.

Might be interesting.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

Also, Phee, if Snowing can share a heart, then we can certainly share a brain, at least where it comes to SF. As always, I think you & I see this story from the same perspective, although ironically with the polar emotions of cynicism & hope. 😉

OUAT, that’s hilarious. I sincerely hope we have some sort of Rumple-Emma hilarity. “Who the blazes is Neal and why would I care about him?”

And Keb, excellent points. They all sacrifice, and they all come back. Except for Emma’s TL? K… that makes sense, it’s not like it’s her fairy tale or anything… :/

It ain’t over til it’s over, and we’ve got 85 minutes to go. We’ve got a fighting chance, here. I cannot promise that we’ll win, but I AM confident that the *possibilty* of a happy ending is not so far-fetched as it seems.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[RumplesGirl]

Emma: Who by the way is the third man in your family to brazenly hit on me at first meeting, despite being permanently fourteen.

LOL

About the dreamcatchers, there was also some discussion a while back about a trinket that was hanging inside the edge of her crib and whether it was a tiny dreamcatcher or just a teething ring or something. I still maintain that whatever it was, it looked dreamcatchery.

It fit the whole motif of the bedroom, so I’d say it was very dreamcatchery.
What came first? Concept for Emma’s bedroom or SF dreamcatcher? That’d be interesting to know.

There are some cases where the woman has definitely shown willing to give up her life or sacrifice a lot for her true love, too–Snowing, for example, when Snow bites the apple. But this is quite a long list of men who have actually died for their true loves only to come back again.

good point!

BTW what has ever given Henry logical reason to think Emma would sleep in her car? What an odd statement to make, taken from that angle. Anyways.

yes it is, given that they lived with MM before they left in 311

As far as the mobile goes, I’m actually NOT cool with it being gifted to baby bro. He is their do-over kid; he’ll be raised with his parents’ love and as the kingdom heir. From Snowing’s perspective, I totally get having another kid, no ill will. But from Emma’s end, there’s no way to deny “replacement child” syndrome. She doesn’t seem to harbor any animosity, but still – this girl has so very, very, very few things of her own, from her own childhood – that it seems awfully mean to take the one tangible thing (aside from the blanket) we’ve seen floating around since S1 and just be like, “Here ya go kid, you can have this, too.” It just strikes me as really, really wrong.

I’m with you on that. That thing is Emma’s.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Marty McFly]

I watched 317, and I see what you were saying, how everyone seems ooc. BUT I liked the episode because I feel that the writers wanted to give the audience a break from the terrible pain that was 315 and 316. it was lighter and (dare I say) fun in some ways. (if you forget for a moment the big elephant in the room (Neal is DEAD) if you don’t think about it you could enjoy that episode.

Now, Emma is obviously in denial in this episode. it’s part of grieving. she wants to “not stop living” so she makes the crib with her father even though they are afraid of the witch. she calls her parents boring, and lets a pirate babysit, OK I see why it made everyone so mad, BUT to me, none of it looked like she cared for Captain Hook. in fact, Regina said it best: she doesn’t but HE does. and notice how fast Regina believed Emma that she has no feelings for hook. THERE IS A SPECIAL CONNECTION BETWEEN EMMA AND REGINA they can’t lie to each other. I love it bytheway. (don’t mind me I’ve always LOVED Emma/Regina interactions)

some things that jumped at me: the writers had Zelena!Ariel call Hook a “coward and a monster” these are the things that Rumple keeps calling himself. what are the writers trying to imply here?
and right after that we see proof that Hook is a coward because he can’t bring himself to tell Emma the truth about who Ariel was and what he did in the past year etc. and here we also see the difference between RumBelle and CS, where when Gold couldn’t bring himself to tell Belle the circumstances of Milah’s death, Belle found it out within an hour, while Emma was illusioned into believing that Hook was telling the whole truth.

and another thing that jumped at me: Hook was practically trying to turn Henry into Pan. the ONLY other cheater we met in ouat was Malcolm/Pan.

so between Pan and Hook in neverland, no one should be surprised that Baelfire became a theif

[textbookone]

Quotes are back? Quotes are back! Yay! *Muppet flailing*

BTW what has ever given Henry logical reason to think Emma would sleep in her car? What an odd statement to make, taken from that angle. Anyways.

I kind of always thought that Emma lived in her car at least briefly when she first got out of prison. I mean really, she was 18, with no money and just a car. Where else was she going to go? And in regards to Regina’s cursed memories, I don’t know if the State would have given her Henry right away (I kind of think she might have had to fight for custody, which meant she would have had to get her life sorted out A.S.A.P. in order to make her case), but I figure that there was at least some car living back in Henry’s early years in those cursed memories. And there was probably any opportunity during their year in NY to tell Henry at least a few stories about her past, probably not any part involving Neal, but who knows. But then again, I could be extrapolating and making waaaaay too much stuff up (damn you newly formed fanfic brain!)

Also DSB – one of your spoilered bits gave me a fic idea. This is all your fault, so obviously I’m going to make you listen to it later. I require you to tell me that it’s full of plot holes and that I shouldn’t do it.

Co-Mayor of Sad Town | Twin of Co-Mayor of Sad Town | #HopeforRogueBison

[dontstopbelievin]

It’s full of plot holes. Don’t do it.

I think that Emma & infant Henry living out of her car is certainly a possibility, but Henry would be too young to remember. As far as I know, he doesn’t know his parents lived out of the car, either. And in the NY year, he had “memories” of growing up w Emma so no grand Q&A session there, either. We did have the scene in SB after she got kicked out of Granny’s, but I don’t recall Henry being privy to that.

I mean, if my Mom couldn’t stay wherever she was living, “sleeping in her car” is just not the first assumption I would make. Add that onto a scene that had no real “point” in the episode, and it makes it doubly suspicious. The only reason that scene existed was for Henry to allude to his parents’ history, by making assumptions that – while historically accurate – he had no logical reason to make. I’m gonna call Shenanigans on that one.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[Marty McFly]

@dontstopbelievin @dontstopbelieving I am absolutely crying right now

Our mom kept it. She said it was our dad’s.

This episode also features the Great Neal Lie… firefighter and pumpkin pie. At the end, Henry asks, “Do you have anything of his? Something you can remember him by.

Something I could see.” Emma declines, but throughout this whole scene, we can very clearly see the pendant, on a chain, around her neck. (Just like the compass… on a chain, around Ava’s neck.)

don’t stop believein indeed

[RumplesGirl]

kind of always thought that Emma lived in her car at least briefly when she first got out of prison. I mean really, she was 18, with no money and just a car. Where else was she going to go?

Good point. And Henry with Cursed memories would remember hearing about Emma post-jail.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Marty McFly]

@ouatrandothoughts OMG I just sprayed all over my shirt
this was so funny! you should write fafiction

Emma: I know you’ll help us.

Rumple: Oh? And why is that, dearie?

Emma: Because I know where your son is.

Rumple: (stunned into submission)

Emma: He’s in Neverland. (beat) With your dad.

Rumple:…With…my…

Emma: Who by the way is the third man in your family to brazenly hit on me at first meeting, despite being permanently fourteen.

Rumple:…

Emma: Is it a family thing, or what?

[Author]

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