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There is a new TV Guide article which mentions J-Mo’s and MRJ’s perspective on SF as they stand currently:
“I love what [executive producers] Adam [Horowitz] and Eddy [Kitsis] did with her for that because I think it’s a very human reaction to him being back,” Morrison says. “You can fantasize that someone will say, ‘Oh, I love you, it’s great, it’s wonderful, it’s all fine now.’ But in reality, she spent 10 years thinking that he not only abandoned her in some way, but it seemed like he maliciously set her up. Ten years is a long time to suffer through that belief. Also, he found out that the curse was broken and could have come after her and still didn’t, so that’s the second betrayal she’s aware of. There’s so much for them to work through and so much that hasn’t been dealt with. There’s a tremendous amount of baggage there.”
I think Jennifer Morrison is saying pretty much what we’ve been saying that while Emma loves Neal, she has a lot to deal with right now: saving Henry, helping find a way to get Charming home, getting everyone home, defeating PP and now dealing with two men who’ve made their intetions be known. The poor girl is in a mess and emtionally fragile from NL playing mind-games. She feels like an unloved orophan whose mother jsut said she wants a replacement baby. Talk about struggling with her own abandoment issues from what her parents did to her. She has a lot to work through about her own past to realize she has a lot of false beliefs about Neal: she thought he left her becasue he didn’t love her, only now to relazie he never wanted to leave her in the first place and that he never stopped loving her. That is a lot to unpack, all while being hounded by a malevolent munchkin who wants to tear her family apart and kidnap her son.
For now, the duo will be focused on the mission at hand, pushing their feelings aside for the greater good of saving Henry. “We’re both aware that there’s work to be done,” Raymond-James says. “But there’s also the mission that needs to be accomplished. That supersedes everything.” But there could be jealousy in store once Neal does find out about Hook’s true feelings for Emma. “No one wants to hear that,” he says. “But listen, I don’t own Emma, and she doesn’t owe me anything. There’s not really time to process all of it because there’s so much happening.”
I think MRJ really understands the mindset of Neal and where he is coming from. Neal has acknowledge he messed up by not going after Emma, and he’s admitted that’s his biggest regret. So, as Neal told Emma in 3×6, she doesn’t ever need to apologize to him for feeling hurt after what he did to her. Nevertheless, Emma realizes she is not the only one who was hurt by the curse keeping them apart. She said “after all the pain we’ve been through,” thereby acknowledging Neal was just as much a vicimt of his father’s curse as she was. I suspect the more they spend time together, the more this will come to light.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I have to get some sleep right now (loving all the thoughts you guys have posted today!) but I wanted to share this picture I found that was posted earlier today. I think it’s so beautiful. =)
#MoreBOOMLessGloomI feel like the writers care to address these things because it is important to establishing a romance going forward–not to establishing why it wouldn’t work. They don’t have to bother doing that, do they? It’s just, you know, hot pirate, chemistry all that, and one sad look and we’re all done with Emma and Neal. We all saw that he left, we all saw he was with Tamara, and we saw he was sorry. They didn’t need to have him hear that speech from Emma to realize he can’t just show up and they get back together–he’d already expressed doubts about it.
So why all the screen time on it, if they don’t intend to do anything? I feel about it that way I guess. Hook’s little crush is just the sideshow, to set up his internal conflict, perhaps temptation for Emma and angst with Neal. I don’t feel they’ve been showing me why Emma and Hook have a connection, if anything it feels like I’ve been shown why they don’t. They’re not on the same wavelength a lot.
Agreed! If they intended for SF to just remain in the past, then what’s the point of them writing the present day angst? They could have resolved it, they could have killed Neal when they had the chance if he wasn’t gonna be relevant in the future. But instead they’ve brought them back together, and they’re having Emma bear her soul about her conflicting emotions because of the love she still has, and will probably always have for him.
Honestly, what’s the point of showing us all of that if there’s not a real possibility of them getting back together? If she’s just gonna move onto a relationship with Hook, then don’t waste screen time showing her clinging to her love for Neal, just have her move onto a relationship with Hook. Don’t show her downplaying their kiss, show her being excited because she’s feeling something for him. Have her secret in the cave, said to Neal’s face be, “I’m falling in love with Hook,” instead of, “I love you, I probably always will.”
What makes it fascinating and heartbreaking for me is that Hook is going to be incredibly torn over this. While he has clearly fallen for Emma, he also cares enough about Neal that he isn’t going to want to be in the way of Neal’s happiness–he believes himself a man of honor, and he knows that he hurt Neal badly as a boy (first by breaking up his family, though on the Milah side of the equation he feels more than justified, he gets that this hurt Baelfire a lot, and then by selling him out to Pan in a move that was definitely bad form, and we don’t know what further history they may have had in Neverland…but, oh yeah, he also tried to kill Neal’s dad, again, feeling justified on one level but realizing that Neal may possibly have been hurt by this).
But I think, too, that’s why SF is the sturdier ship–for Hook to do the right thing and redeem himself, he will have to relinquish his claim to Emma’s heart (as long as that’s what she wishes). It would be an act of love toward both of them–Milah’s son and Emma–to allow them to be together and rekindle their love.
Agreed with all of that.
I’m on board with what several people have been saying in various places that what Hook’s feeling right now is something he doesn’t yet fully understand. And it’s understandable if he doesn’t fully understand it, because honestly, if you start feeling something for someone new for the first time in 300 years, then of course you’re gonna equate that to falling in love with the new person.
But I think that what’s actually happening is just that his heart is starting to open up again, (someone somewhere posted something about how it’s similar to when Emma kissed Graham, and his memories opened up as a result), and yes, that’s a result of having let his guard down with Emma, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s in love with Emma.
Now that the process is kickstarted, I think that the flow on effect of his softening heart will be that he’ll soften towards Neal as well, and genuinely want to become close to the guy, finally, after all these years. Emma’s started a change in him that’s helping him to let go of Milah, which could in turn allow him to make a new connection with Milah’s son, which would heal some of the self loathing he’s no doubt carried around ever since he handed Bae over to Pan. Hook’s connection with Emma is a valuable one, but it’s not necessarily his be all, end all. She’s not even exactly a rebound. She’s his Saviour.
Her kiss started to defrost that lump in his chest that’s been frozen for a few centuries, just like her kiss unlocked the true self that Graham had had repressed for a few decades. Now that Emma’s set him on that path, he’ll inevitably want to do the right thing by both her, and Neal, and in time he’ll realise what they both truly mean to him, and what he wants for them, and for himself, and his soul will be a lot lighter for it, and it will mean he’s able to move on to living in a more happy, satisfying, honourable way.
If that’s the kind of route they go with it, then the triangle will have actually served a purpose.
Agreed. I go back to Good Form. Hook: “I just want you to know that I also know what it’s like to live without hope.” Because Emma instantly picked up on Bae’s loss of hope in the cave. Emma: “I know what this is. This attempt to bond with me. I’m not in the mood.” Hook’s loss of hope, whatever it was, didn’t come across to Emma. But without even being there, Neal’s did.
Agreed! Yes, that line bothered me a lot. Not only did it sound forced and out of the blue, but it’s just another reason why I hate it when people complain that Neal is not giving Emma space or not understanding her…etc…It came across as more pushy to me then Neal’s “I’ll never stop fighting for you” line. Even Emma realizes that and she told him to stop, she doesn’t have the energy to deal with him right now.
The line in the cave wasn’t even anything compared to the actual kiss scene. He freaking pointed to his lips and dared her to kiss him when she was reluctant to do it. Yeah, that’s far less pushy than Neal hugging her for being brutally honest, and then telling her he’ll fight for her, and then walking away to give her space to think and breathe. Geez Neal, stop being so pushy and insistent and not taking no for an answer.
There is a new TV Guide article which mentions J-Mo’s and MRJ’s perspective on SF as they stand currently:
I loved that article, for the reasons you outlined. Meanwhile, I’ve seen several tumblr posts from CSers applauding JMo and MRJ and claiming their quotes as victory for CS, and I’m sitting here all, “Did we even read the same article?” For some reason, CSers as a general rule seem to be under the impression that SFers think that our ship would instantly come together and be all rainbow kisses and unicorn stickers, so the quotes in this article should come as a massive blow. But as a general rule, the attitude I’ve seen with SFers is, “It’s a hot mess and they have a lot to work through, but they’ll eventually overcome it.” We’re not ignorant about the current state of their relationship, and it’s exactly what JMo and MRJ said in that article, and it’s the fact that it’s gonna be a struggle that will make it all the more rewarding when they finally sort their stuff out.
Was just casually scrolling through the OUAT tumblr tag and came across this…
So, we know that Emma can’t have her heart taken because she’s the product of True Love. My question is…
Will we ever see Henry’s heart taken out/attempted to be taken out?
Because I think that would give us a good idea about what’s going down with Emma and certain someones…
And I thought, “Well I dunno if we’ll ever see someone actually reaching into Henry’s chest, but Pan does seem to need his heart, and there’s that theory about how maybe he has to give his heart willingly…OMG maybe the reason Pan has to convince him to give his heart up willingly is because he knows he can’t take his heart because it’s impossible to take the heart out of a magical true love baby.” I mean, we know that Pan knows that Emma and Neal love each other, because he said so to Hook, so if that IS what’s up with Henry’s heart being unable to be taken, then Pan would know what’s up with that, which is why he’s taking the time to win him over.I really liked that article with MRJ. He is totally inside Neal’s head. 🙂
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Magic is wonky, so when people try to argue about it sometimes, there’s logical problems. Emma’s magic nature is not just her parent’s love flowing into her. She is special beyond that due to the prophecy but also just who she is. We don’t know exactly all the “logic” in the show behind her magic, but she has it, just as Regina has it. Yet Snow and Charming don’t seem to, and it was implied their parents had true love. I doubt Aurora’s baby is going to do anything big, but we’ll see, Ashley’s didn’t. So when people try to argue about Henry, I don’t think that is the way the writers would want to resolve the triangle. It would feel like a cheat to me, telling me rather than showing me the love or lack of it.
Hook and Emma have what I’d call moonlight romance–it works by the light of the moon, when its just the two of them, no one’s watching and they forget a lot of things about themselves, because its hard to see in that light so it all looks better. Neal and Emma are sunlight romance, because nothing’s forgotten, there’s no special atmosphere, they will come back together with full awareness of each other and their goals/dreams and it won’t matter who is around to see. The moon has no light of its own, no matter how bright it might appear, for it is but a reflection of the sun. As J.Mo said, her attraction to Hook was complicated by his reminding her of Neal.
We’ll see how the writers move the story but to me it is disingenuous to have Emma hurt and angsty with Neal but blissful and forgiving of all the things Hook did less than, within the story, two weeks ago. It is a matter of survival now, so she has to work and trust both on one level but emotionally it does not have to translate into trusting either with her heart. I just think Neal still has her heart as she has his.“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Hook and Emma have what I’d call moonlight romance–it works by the light of the moon, when its just the two of them, no one’s watching and they forget a lot of things about themselves, because its hard to see in that light so it all looks better. Neal and Emma are sunlight romance, because nothing’s forgotten, there’s no special atmosphere, they will come back together with full awareness of each other and their goals/dreams and it won’t matter who is around to see. The moon has no light of its own, no matter how bright it might appear, for it is but a reflection of the sun.
O_____O
That was all kinds of beautiful
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Magic is wonky, so when people try to argue about it sometimes, there’s logical problems. Emma’s magic nature is not just her parent’s love flowing into her. She is special beyond that due to the prophecy but also just who she is. We don’t know exactly all the “logic” in the show behind her magic, but she has it, just as Regina has it. Yet Snow and Charming don’t seem to, and it was implied their parents had true love. I doubt Aurora’s baby is going to do anything big, but we’ll see, Ashley’s didn’t. So when people try to argue about Henry, I don’t think that is the way the writers would want to resolve the triangle. It would feel like a cheat to me, telling me rather than showing me the love or lack of it.
I agree to an extent. Thing is, there will have to be a way that they conclusively prove which side of the triangle is TL, (something more obvious than including the TL music theme in their scenes). One pair will have to have it, otherwise the triangle will never truly end, (unless one of the guys dies, which I think is highly unlikely, and would be the worst possible way to resolve it), and dear sweet baby Jesus do we need the triangle to officially, canonically end at some point in the near future.
The only way we’ve seen TL proven thus far is with TLK breaking a curse. Charming woke Snow (and Snow woke Charming), Rumple started to change after kissing Belle, Abigail un-golded Frederick, and then we got the non-romantic TLK with Emma and Henry breaking the curse too. The whole TLK causing magic to happen as proof feels sorta overdone, but they’ll have to prove it somehow.
If they wanted to prove it for SF, I think Henry having an un-take-able heart would be acceptable. They’ve set up that super special baby of TL Emma can’t have her heart taken, and now they’ve got her son in a situation that it’s gonna take magic to get out of, and the guy holding him hostage wants his super special Truest Believer heart. If it ends up that the thing with Emma’s heart was deliberate foreshadowing for the same thing being true with Henry, which would be both an actual plot point of Pan’s manipulation of him, and would have the bonus of proving his parents’ TL, killing two birds with one stone, I wouldn’t be terribly surprised.
Hook and Emma have what I’d call moonlight romance–it works by the light of the moon, when its just the two of them, no one’s watching and they forget a lot of things about themselves, because its hard to see in that light so it all looks better. Neal and Emma are sunlight romance, because nothing’s forgotten, there’s no special atmosphere, they will come back together with full awareness of each other and their goals/dreams and it won’t matter who is around to see. The moon has no light of its own, no matter how bright it might appear, for it is but a reflection of the sun. As J.Mo said, her attraction to Hook was complicated by his reminding her of Neal.
This is perfect! So beautifully said.
The whole TLK causing magic to happen as proof feels sorta overdone, but they’ll have to prove it somehow.
Would it even work with Emma? Unless she went under a sleeping curse and then Hook and Neal both kissed her to see which one wakes her up but boy does that sound contrived. Obviously Emma could wake anyone up. So I agree that has to be resolved/proved somehow (though I’d like for it be resolved just simply because Emma said so).
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Would it even work with Emma? Unless she went under a sleeping curse and then Hook and Neal both kissed her to see which one wakes her up but boy does that sound contrived. Obviously Emma could wake anyone up. So I agree that has to be resolved/proved somehow (though I’d like for it be resolved just simply because Emma said so).
Can she even BE cursed to begin with? And I’d prefer it to be resolved just by Emma being shown to make a choice as well, but practically speaking I think there will need to be an actual “event” in the show that screams TL, otherwise the fandom debates and ship wars will rage on for years. If they wanted to prove SF as TL and officially end the triangle drama before season’s end, they could do that with the Henry’s heart thing, but still take another season for SF to build up their relationship properly again. It wouldn’t be unlike what they’ve done with RegalHood.
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