Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[heatherc1275]

I’m debating whether or not to watch that new sneak peak tonight. I have another Broadway show downtown tomorrow night and won’t get to see the show until after I get home (I have four more of these shows on Sunday nights but the others aren’t until 2014). I hate being surprised by things like this so I may have to watch it so I’m not overly surprised tomorrow.

I refuse to lose hope in SwanFire because of things happening in Neverland and because I’ve always thought Emma & Neal’s road back to each other would be a rough one. I’ve never expected them to just fall back into each other’s arms and everything go perfect right off the bat. It’s gotta be a journey with ups, downs, heartbreaks, warm moments, fights, tears, dark times, happiness….that’s what makes a great love story and I’m still holding onto the hope that this is where Adam & Eddy are going with things. There’s way too much all ready there for them to just disregard everything and go a totally different direction. Nothing is an accident! 🙂

BTW-You guys have posted several videos from my friend Katie in this thread (her username is MsKTProductions on You Tube and she does AMAZING SwanFire videos). Well, she’s been dealing with a ton of horrible stuff out on Twitter/Tumblr/Social Media in general lately so I posted the link to this board and the thread here so she can hopefully find her new SwanFire safe haven. Hopefully she’ll read all the great stuff that you guys have posted, eventually register on the forum, and start to post soon! She’s an awesome person and a BIG TIME SwanFire supporter and I think you guys will like her a lot. Come here soon Katie!! 😀

BTW #2-That pic I posted a few pages back is now the background on my phone. I love that every time I do anything on my phone now I see Neal giving Emma that wonderful hug! <3 😀 (Do I need therapy for admitting this factoid?! LOL)

[kfchimera]

Oh wow, I LOVE those videos from  msKT!  Hopefullly she’ll feel like sharing thoughts but even if she just reads and enjoys–well, that’s what I do with videos usually.  I don’t know where to write how much I enjoy them as I usually see them reblogged or embeded here.  So it would be nice for her to see how many people appreciate her talents!

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

I’m debating whether or not to watch that new sneak peak tonight. I have another Broadway show downtown tomorrow night and won’t get to see the show until after I get home (I have four more of these shows on Sunday nights but the others aren’t until 2014). I hate being surprised by things like this so I may have to watch it so I’m not overly surprised tomorrow.

The scene is 5000% awkward, and you’ll wanna hug Neal, but it’s not blatantly pro either ship. I’m guessing this is the setup and there’ll be another scene later that will amp up the animosity between them.

I refuse to lose hope in SwanFire because of things happening in Neverland and because I’ve always thought Emma & Neal’s road back to each other would be a rough one. I’ve never expected them to just fall back into each other’s arms and everything go perfect right off the bat. It’s gotta be a journey with ups, downs, heartbreaks, warm moments, fights, tears, dark times, happiness….that’s what makes a great love story and I’m still holding onto the hope that this is where Adam & Eddy are going with things. There’s way too much all ready there for them to just disregard everything and go a totally different direction. Nothing is an accident! 🙂

Exactly! I doubt either ship will pull ahead much in the race in any obvious way while they’re in NL. Everything is crazy in NL, that place is stripping everyone’s emotions down to the bone and laying them bare. All of this is setup, and the triangle resolution will come later.

That being said, if the scene where Hook tells Emma she has to choose one of them comes across as him doing it in a demanding or pestering way, I’d say that could inevitably be a positive for SF, because if I were in Emma’s shoes, I’d be turned off by the guy being pushy, and would be drawn to the one who’s giving me space to get my head sorted in my own sweet time. Of course, we have no idea how either guy will actually act in this ep yet, we dunno how the fight starts that results in Emma yelling at them both to pull their heads in. I will say though that I’ll be surprised and disappointed if it’s Neal picking fights, because judging by how he acts in the sneak peek scene, it’d be out of character if he suddenly does a 180 and lashes out at Hook in front of Emma. We shall see.

BTW-You guys have posted several videos from my friend Katie in this thread (her username is MsKTProductions on You Tube and she does AMAZING SwanFire videos). Well, she’s been dealing with a ton of horrible stuff out on Twitter/Tumblr/Social Media in general lately so I posted the link to this board and the thread here so she can hopefully find her new SwanFire safe haven. Hopefully she’ll read all the great stuff that you guys have posted, eventually register on the forum, and start to post soon! She’s an awesome person and a BIG TIME SwanFire supporter and I think you guys will like her a lot. Come here soon Katie!! 😀

I recognise that username from some great SF vids! *waves to Katie* 🙂 Social media is rough right now if you’re on either side of the “war”. Just scrolling through the Neal and SF tags on tumblr is enough to raise my blood pressure because people tag their rude, ignorant opinions in the pro-tags instead of keeping it in the anti-tags, and it’s so often the same old arguments based on “facts” that are intentionally mis-interpreted. *sigh* Anyway, Katie, or anyone else, who is looking for a little corner of the internets that’s a SF safe haven, this thread is such a place.

BTW #2-That pic I posted a few pages back is now the background on my phone. I love that every time I do anything on my phone now I see Neal giving Emma that wonderful hug! <3 😀 (Do I need therapy for admitting this factoid?! LOL)[/quote]
You absolutely do not need therapy! 😆

[heatherc1275]

YAY that I don’t need therapy! Well, at least for this…I probably do for other things though, LOL 😆

I watched the sneak peak (I think it took me about 2.5 minutes to decide to watch it so clearly my emotions are also crazy thanks to Neverland 😉 ) and I agree that I want to hug Neal like WHOA and I can’t decide if it was done maliciously or not. It’s hard to tell from the clip but seriously, can MRJ be more awesome with how he uses his eyes to convey Neal’s emotions?! Wow. I am beyond impressed with him this year (and I loved him last year too). He’s done this with Neal all season from his disappointment in how cowardly he acted instead of going to find Emma after the curse broke, to his anxiety at finding out she was in Neverland, his anger and frustration with his father, his hopeful face when he found the group’s campground and knew that Emma had been there, his sadness and understanding at Emma’s confession to him, his determination to do the right thing now and fight for Emma no matter what, and now his eyes conveying so much in the sneak peak…dang, I just love this guy more and more every single week. I love the fact that Neal isn’t perfect. I love that he’s ADMITTED he isn’t perfect and that he’s made big time mistakes. I love that he threw himself full bore into being a father for Henry. I love that he never held it against Emma that she didn’t tell him about Henry. I LOVE that he didn’t think twice about returning to Neverland to help save Emma & Henry even though it’s a place that holds no good memories for him. I love how self sacrificing he has always been and how much he cares for other people. The fact that people can’t see those things just makes me shake my head with wonder because it’s all pretty darn obvious to me.

BTW-Someone on Twitter today said something like they couldn’t wait for OUAT to go back to before they were focusing on the pirate with a drinking problem and a deadbeat dad. Count that as another one that I don’t understand if she’s talking about Neal…how could he be a dad at all if Emma never told him about Henry?! From the moment she told him he was Henry’s father, he’s been GREAT with him and not at all a deadbeat dad. Does she understand what that term actually means?! I have a deadbeat dad who was barely around for me after my parents got divorced when I was 2.5 years old (and still isn’t around now 30+ years later) so this just IRKED ME TO KINGDOM COME that she said that about Neal. I hope she wasn’t talking about him but I think she was and that’s not right. I agree that this show is about way more than the triangle though and hopefully they don’t forget about everyone else even though the media is propping up this triangle like there’s no one else on the show. *rolleyes* 🙁    /end rant

#MoreBOOMLessGloom

[Phee]

but seriously, can MRJ be more awesome with how he uses his eyes to convey Neal’s emotions?! Wow. I am beyond impressed with him this year (and I loved him last year too). He’s done this with Neal all season from his disappointment in how cowardly he acted instead of going to find Emma after the curse broke, to his anxiety at finding out she was in Neverland, his anger and frustration with his father, his hopeful face when he found the group’s campground and knew that Emma had been there, his sadness and understanding at Emma’s confession to him, his determination to do the right thing now and fight for Emma no matter what, and now his eyes conveying so much in the sneak peak…dang, I just love this guy more and more every single week.

MRJ has embodied the character so well. He totally gets Neal and portrays him so well, just a mere expression can instantly crush your heart or make it soar. He’s seriously wonderful in this role!

I love the fact that Neal isn’t perfect. I love that he’s ADMITTED he isn’t perfect and that he’s made big time mistakes.

This is a major difference in either side of the triangle IMO. Neal’s said, “Yep, I’ve hurt you, you have every right to feel whatever you wanna feel about me.” Hook’s like, “I’ve done some crap to you, like that time I left you to die in a cell, and I’m keeping some major secrets from you about my history with the father of your child, but pucker up and give us a kiss?” It just doesn’t compute for me that Hook and Emma can be the more healthy relationship option, considering those facts.

But Hook’s a pirate, he’s got a long life of lying and secret keeping and dirty deeds under his belt, and you can’t just instantly change when that’s been your life for a few centuries, so I think it’s in character for him to have not been honest and/or apologetic with Emma yet. I do hope he makes an effort to do the right thing and change that, for his own sake more than anything else, but if it doesn’t happen immediately, and he keeps playing this game dirty for a bit, I think that’d be believable. And the fact that that IS his character, means he’s not good for Emma IMO. I like him with his rough, dark edges, and will weep if they 100% woobify him over this Emma stuff.

Neal may not have faced up to his own crap in the past, like when he was scared to go find Emma after the Curse broke, but he reached a turning point and now he IS facing up to it all, he’s owning it all, he’s accepting responsibility for his actions.

BTW-Someone on Twitter today said something like they couldn’t wait for OUAT to go back to before they were focusing on the pirate with a drinking problem and a deadbeat dad. Count that as another one that I don’t understand if she’s talking about Neal…how could he be a dad at all if Emma never told him about Henry?! From the moment she told him he was Henry’s father, he’s been GREAT with him and not at all a deadbeat dad. Does she understand what that term actually means?!

Apparently there was a comment left on the sneak peek where someone was giving him crap for not having claimed his son for his whole life, so why is he going on about saving him now. Like, seriously? Do some people even watch the show? Because newsflash: Neal didn’t actually know that Henry existed until a couple of weeks ago!!!! It’s a BASIC CANON FACT. When people ignore stuff like that just so they can hate on him, it infuriates me to no end. And from the moment he DID find out that Henry existed, he’s been there, getting to know him, sacrificing his life for his sake, trying to be the best dad he can be.

If people wanna dislike Neal based on reasonable reactions to things we actually see in the show, then be my guest. He’s not everyone’s cup of tea, whatever, we all have characters we do and don’t like. But when people INVENT reasons to HATE him…I just…GRRRRRRR.

[astrawoid]

So I saw this today and it kind of starting giving me doubts as to whether or not the writers are trying to subtly tell us something.

 

 

The flower on the right is a buttercup.  I don’t think there has been any confirmation if the flower is suppose to be a buttercup or not but it looks very similar.  And I think JMO has said that if she was to pick a princess, she would pick Buttercup. But I don’t know what interview she said that in, so maybe I’m just remember wrong about that.  And then of course there was that line in Good Form where Hook says to Emma, “As you wish.”  There are probably other parallels you could make with Princess Bride.  But my question is, does that matter?  Should it matter?  Westley and Buttercup are an iconic example of true love.  Are the writers giving us parallels because that’s what they want us to think about Hook and Emma or is it all a red herring?  Thoughts?

"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."

[Slurpeez]

About Emma’s flower tattoo, Adam Kitsis and Edward Kitsis had this to say:

Will we find out about Emma’s tattoo?
Adam Horowitz: I would say probably not.
Kitsis: It’s the same flower that’s on her father’s crest, but how she got it and why she chose it is probably not something we’ll get to this year.

So, Adam says they may not  even get to it, while Eddy says the meaning of Emma’s tattoo is that it is the same flower as on her father’s crest. He got it after defeating King George in battle and taking over his kingdom and castle.

Charming Family Crest

Emma’s flower tattoo

The flower on her father’s crest is white, not yellow, so I doubt it’s a buttercup. To me it looks more like a white rose that sometimes was depicted on a coat-of-arms in the Middle Ages. Perhaps the most famous example is the White Rose of York:

In medieval heraldry, the white rose symbolizes love and faith; charm and innnocence, which makes sense, given Snow White’s purity, and Prince Charming’s, well, charm. Snow and Charming also have faith in true love. Emma’s flower tattoo links Emma symbolically to her parents, since she unknowingly selected it before she ever met them. That shows she is her parents’ daughter, even if she always felt like an orphan. By having the same flower tattoo as her father’s crest, she’s linked to them and their royal line.

For those who are interested, the red chevron represents protection; builders or others who have accomplished some work of faithful service.

The heraldic lion represents bravery, strength, ferocity, and valor.

Interestingly, the Man with the Lion Tattoo (aka Robin Hood) has the same heraldic lion as on the Charming family crest.

Well, symbols have meaning and could be a connection showing that tattoos show identity. Legend has it that Robin Hood traditionally served the lionhearted King Richard I of England.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Phee]

What slurpeez said.

Also, there are how many types of flower that have 5 round petals? Who’s to say it’s even meant to be a specific flower, because a flower motif with 5 round petals is a pretty standard thing.

Also, I’m guessing the rights to The Princess Bride are owned by the author of the book and the studio that made the movie, which I’m pretty sure wasn’t Disney, so they wouldn’t have the rights to be able to make Hook = Westley and Emma = Buttercup. Throwing in a well known line from that story here and there as an homage, sure no problem. Actually recreating the characters from that story, probably a no go.

[Slurpeez]

Also, I’m guessing the rights to The Princess Bride are owned by the author of the book and the studio that made the movie, which I’m pretty sure wasn’t Disney, so they wouldn’t have the rights to be able to make Hook = Westley and Emma = Buttercup. Throwing in a well known line from that story here and there as an homage, sure no problem. Actually recreating the characters from that story, probably a no go.

It’s no secret that Colin O’Donoghue has said his take on Captain Hook is based some on the Dread Pirate Roberts, but we have also seen the writers pay homage to Captain Jack Sparrow (e.g. the rum, the overt flirtations, the jar of sparkly dirt reference). Adam and Eddy can get away with more overt references to “Pirates of the Caribbean” Jack Sparrow since the movie and the characters are original to Disney .Yet, “The Princess Bride” is not owned by Disney but was produced by a company called Act III Communications. Adam and Eddy have had to tread lightly. They could have Hook say, “as you wish” probably by paying a fee to Act III Communication but they could not say insert an original character like Max the Miracle Worker into the Enchanted Forest. The writers did make a reference in 3×2 that Killian had killed Rufio , despite the film Hook being owned by Columbia Pictures. Yet, A&E couldn’t actually use the character Rufio because he is an original character owned by Columbia Pictures, not Disney.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

Well, she’s been dealing with a ton of horrible stuff out on Twitter/Tumblr/Social Media in general lately so I posted the link to this board and the thread here so she can hopefully find her new SwanFire safe haven.

Yes tell her to come here. We have cookies and hot cocoa with cinnamon

Hook’s like, “I’ve done some crap to you, like that time I left you to die in a cell, and I’m keeping some major secrets from you about my history with the father of your child, but pucker up and give us a kiss?” It just doesn’t compute for me that Hook and Emma can be the more healthy relationship option, considering those facts.

Hook’s non apology continues to frustrate me. Neal has said that he put her through a ton of hurt and crap. I would like for Hook to say, “I’m sorry I’ve done some terrible things to hurt you…’

So I saw this today and it kind of starting giving me doubts as to whether or not the writers are trying to subtly tell us something

I was wondering if that convo would make it over here. Fear not. Slurpeez is right with her post.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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