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Welcome Katie, love the above post about pro-Swanfire Yes I agree, I don’t like this messages of CS, first one, “ hey If I pretend to be nice guy, I can get the girl” Second one, “A girl can change a him” We all know that a person has to truly want to change for themselves not because of another person. Because they would never get far. Also I was put off by Hook’s speech all of it, I was put off by Hook’s sulking because Emma choose Henry. It was wake up call for Neal who realize she was right but to Hook he look as if he got punched in the gut for Emma actually choosing her son over him! I thought I might like this character more this season because Hook was going to man up about Nealfire and honor him by saving his son, but that is not what we are getting. I’m helping you for henry, like I’m help with Neal and your Dad to win you not because its the good thing or the fact that I care about any of them. sighs.
I admit I’ve never been Hook’s #1 fan. Anyone here can tell you he’s not my favorite character and never had been from the time he’s arrived on screen (nothing to do with shipping), but I was a bit shocked at how callous he acted. He’s still in it for himself.
I can here people pipe up, “Well what about Rumple?” First of all, Rumple never pretended to be a nice guy to get anything (except when trying to woo Lacey). He’s always pushed Belle away because of his self esteem issues, cowardice and curse. He’s not changing because of Belle. She’s more of the catalyst to him realizing that he can have a future. He’s doing it for himself. There is a possibility to reconcile with his son and have a relationship with Henry. Same with Regina, like others have mentioned. Last season she tried to change for Henry and it didn’t work. The minute her mother showed up she backslid. I think, especially after her reminiscing talk with Tinker Bell and her discussion this week with Rumple that she is realizing that there is more to life than just what she has, and not necessarily just a love interest. She has to change for herself. The she can be a better mother or even down the line, lover, if anyone should come along *cough*RH*cough*
I just think Neal’s response was great. He’s new to the father thing but has taken it like a duck to water. He knows what’s important and right now it’s Henry. He’d do anything for that boy, despite knowing him only a few months. His little speech at the end was the best thing he could have said to Emma.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
Wow, can’t believe you read the whole thread! More cookies!
That song is very angsty. There is a refrain “How am I supposed to be an optimist about this”…and yet, that is the point. “So for us it’s how do two people who love each other come together when there’s so much hurt?” – Eddy Kitsis said. Most of us would not be able to recover in those circumstances but with the magic of hope, I think we see glimmers for Emma and Neal that they can rebuild even if it looks like they are buried under piles of hurt feelings, cocky pirates and who knows what else. So right now, optimism may be hard, but I feel like in some ways, some things haven’t changed at all for these two, in terms of what they want. They’re still just two people who want a home, family and have no grand ambitions of ruling or revenge or things like that.
Hugs for everyone!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Whilst I think Hook does have a point that Emma will have to eventually choose between him and Neal (It’s not fair on either to keep both men strung along) He immediately assumed Emma would choose him, using words like “WHEN I win your heart” and “I WILL”. There is nothing romantic about that at all. Notice the phrase “When I win”-As I’ve said before, Neal treats Emma like a person, Hook treats Emma like a prize. In the CS thread, it is believed that the theme of CS is “choice”. However, Hook is not giving Emma a choice, he’s basically telling her that she will choose him. Hook has determination, and whilst that isn’t necessarily a bad thing per se, what he decides to be determined about isn’t always the healthiest of things. A stalker has determination, but no way do you want one of them near you. Hook’s determined to break down her walls, to win her, and it’s supposed to be romantic, yet harassing and bombarding someone to a point where they give in isn’t romance.
Emma is in a vulnerable place right now, her son has just been kidnapped by Peter Pan, she has no idea what Henry is doing right now, she is worried about him, not thinking clearly etc etc. Right now, the moral thing to do would be to consider Emma a no go area until Henry is safe and she’s had time to calm down and sort herself out. Yet Hook ploughs right on in. Emma told Snow she kissed Hook because she felt “good”, yet isn’t that how most abusive relationships start? The victims are made to feel good about themselves before the abuser chips away at their self-esteem. I’m not saying that’s what Hook would do to Emma, but an “honourable” man, as Hook likes to claim himself to be (As if! where was the honour when he challenged Pre-dark one Rumple to a duel that was so clearly waited in his favour?), an honourable man would not try and attach himself to Emma at every available opportunity.
Hook clearly views Neal as a threat to getting what he wants, yet Neal was also the key to getting closer to Emma. Hook’s claims of how much Neal meant to him don’t add up. Hook claims to be closer to Bae than he was, than we’ve been shown. I don’t believe for one second that Bae was on Hook’s ship longer than a week at most before the Lost boys claimed him. So where this long time Hook spent with Bae came from, God only knows. Hook was so clearly trying to assert his dominance over Neal when he “accidentally” told him about the CaptainSwan kiss. Neal asked Hook TWICE what he was on about. Hook isn’t stupid, he knew exactly what he was doing, right down to the “apology” and “this is awkward”. It’s awkward because Hook made it so. Notice how Hook muscled in on Neal and Emma’s trip to find the shadow, how Hook tried to take over with the lighter, how he tried to prove what a “big, strong man” he was to Emma and how Neal didn’t measure up.
Neal impressed me last episode, even though I haven’t been a big fan of his since the beginning of season 3, yet whilst I’ve not liked some of the things Neal has done this season (Using Roland as bait, being nasty to Rumple- Neal’s not been the same guy he was in season 2 where he was more likable), Neal never made me feel uneasy. Hook has made me feel uneasy. Whilst at one point during season 3, I did kind of ship CaptainSwan, this episode has kind of put me off it completely. (I won’t mention Hook’s poor treatment of Belle but Rumple should totally kick his arse) Hook has kind of wormed his way into Emma’s affections, said the right things, done the right things, yet THE MOMENT Emma looks to be going off alone with Hook’s “rival” (even though there were 100% no romantic intentions on Neal or Emma’s part) Hook freaked like an over-possessive boyfriend and immediately invited himself along for the trip.
I would be genuinely concerned for Emma if she did start dating Hook. She has abandonment issues which could be used against her and with Snowing likely to have another baby, Emma’s going to feel a bit of an outcast, that she doesn’t belong anymore. WHilst Snow is justified in wanting another child, the way she phrased her reasons were terrible and insensitive to Emma’s feelings. Snow basically admitted that to Emma and everyone present that the current relationship she has with Emma is “not what I wanted” because Emma is all grown up. That’s almost like a rejection and for Emma, who has abandonment issues, that’s akin to her worst fear. Hook could so easily play on that against Emma, and whilst he probably won’t (because he’s abc’s favourite and they probably won’t want him be cast as “that guy”), I don’t consider it to be beyond his capabilities.
Sorry for the long post.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWhilst I think Hook does have a point that Emma will have to eventually choose between him and Neal (It’s not fair on either to keep both men strung along) He immediately assumed Emma would choose him, using words like “WHEN I win your heart” and “I WILL”.
Yes there is defintely a choice to be made, Hook is right about that. What I don’t like is his insinuation that the choice has already been made ahead of time. Emma cannot resist Hook because he’s Hook and obviously she’s going to choose him. Offering someone a choice but informing them what the end result will be is not actually a choice.
Hook’s determined to break down her walls, to win her, and it’s supposed to be romantic, yet harassing and bombarding someone to a point where they give in isn’t romance
And if he knew Emma better, Hook might realize that Emma’s walls are rock solid and that any attempt to scale them only make them more impenetrable. She doesn’t need bombardment. She needs understanding, sympathy and above all else: TIME
The victims are made to feel good about themselves before the abuser chips away at their self-esteem. I’m not saying that’s what Hook would do to Emma, but an “honourable” man, as Hook likes to claim himself to be (As if! where was the honour when he challenged Pre-dark one Rumple to a duel that was so clearly waited in his favour?), an honourable man would not try and attach himself to Emma at every available opportunity.
This was the biggest issues I had with “Good Form.” For the first four episodes I was really encouraged by Hook’s behavior. He was obviously interested in Emma, but he was letting her mourn. He held a little service for Bae on the JR. He respected that they had both lost someone they loved adn cared about. And then suddenly Good Form happens and he’s eying her like a letch, and making insinuations. What happened to being a gentleman? What happened to letting her heal? It felt like a total 180 from the gradual hero type they were making him.
I don’t believe for one second that Bae was on Hook’s ship longer than a week at most before the Lost boys claimed him. So where this long time Hook spent with Bae came from, God only knows. Hook was so clearly trying to assert his dominance over Neal when he “accidentally” told him about the CaptainSwan kiss. Neal asked Hook TWICE what he was on about. Hook isn’t stupid, he knew exactly what he was doing, right down to the “apology” and “this is awkward”. It’s awkward because Hook made it so. Notice how Hook muscled in on Neal and Emma’s trip to find the shadow, how Hook tried to take over with the lighter, how he tried to prove what a “big, strong man” he was to Emma and how Neal didn’t measure up.
I was so disappointed in the CapatainFire scenes. It feels like everything Colin has been telling us in interviews was a lie. As if Hook doesn’t really care for Nealfire at all.
yet THE MOMENT Emma looks to be going off alone with Hook’s “rival” (even though there were 100% no romantic intentions on Neal or Emma’s part) Hook freaked like an over-possessive boyfriend and immediately invited himself along for the trip.
And then got sulky when she read both of them the riot act. He was expecting a, “oh Hook, you’re my hero!” moment. To me it shows that Hook doesn’t understand Emma as much as he claims.
Sorry for the long post.
Oh come now. You’ve been here a long time. you know we love our longs posts.
🙂 cookies all around.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Hey Katie I love your video so many of my favor are OUAT videos are yours any way honestly I felt like Hook was a d-bag this episode he literally was forcing himself upon her felt like we were resorting back to “When I stab you with my sword you’ll feel it” the disgusting pirate pig he was- Not to say that Neal didn’t disappoint me this episode either while Hook had no emotion attachment to Henry Neal does and almost jeopardizing the mission I wanted to slap him more than Hook and than he apologized not once or twice but three times and he stepped back and said Henry comes first and in my opinion the most attractive trait about a father is how far they would go for them and I can’t see Hook being there for Jenry like Neal is and that is a huge part of Emma’s life
PoM never fear on the long posts! Context is often left out of the really short posts, which is how we end up with people seeing only one side of a situation sometimes.
This show takes the time to switch up who’s perspective we see, so I do have sympathy for Hook, but at the same time, it is not sympathy to “get the girl” anymore than it was sympathy for Regina to “take the boy” when it came to Henry. We’ll see how this continues, but I think the story itself is not painting a very dark picture of Neal. Fans tend to be harder on the “good guys” and very lenient on the “bad guys” when it comes to conflicts. There’s plenty of people for example, who get angry at Emma about trying to claim Henry even though Regina did …well all the crazy stuff she did.
Neal’s shadow-gate seems even sillier now we know all you need is a simple candle in a coconut to trap it. OOOH dangerous. It’s not even like he needed a special magical box (but look, Belle found one!). A match and a candle, and a coconut, that’s the danger he was exposing Roland too. I’ll wait to see if more happens, but the way that scene was filmed, with Mulan and RH smiling at Neal, the music, then the follow up of Roland being put to sleep under the window–all of it had a very reassuring feeling to me. Yes, Neal showed a willingness to cross a line here, just like Emma, doing what needs to be done pretty or not to get her son back. He didn’t cross that far I think.
As for Rumple, well I look forward to their reunion. Perhaps Rumple will address Neal’s actions and we’ll all change our perspective about it. I really feel Neal had no choice there, because Rumple should have mentioned the prophecy to start with rather than try to hide it. It eroded the trust they need to rebuild in their relationship if it is ever to be healed.
That is the same for Emma and Neal–he is patient she didn’t tell him about the kiss, but at some point, Emma has to stop keeping things from Neal too. It’s not all on him here, but of course, that’s assuming she wants to heal things up. If she doesn’t, well nothing he is going to do will change her mind, and maybe both guys should find someone who can appreciate them for who they are, as they are and hope to be.
Maybe Emma will click with RH and we can have new angsty triangle!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Yes I agree, he was sulking because she actually choose Henry! I can not respect or buy into CS because it frighten me because its a terrible, terrible misconception that this is told to young women that this is what true love is all about, you can CHANGE him, he will win you no matter what because he said so, his feelings are more important than yours, he can make sexual disrespecting innuendos and its okay. Perhaps that is not what the writers are trying to convey but that is what I am actual seeing and getting from a few in the fandom. Captain Swan is nothing like Snowing or Rumbelle or any other canon ship I have seen. I just don’t get romance or lovey dovey vibes from them. I get I’m hot, I’m sexy, I’m pirate of course I get the girl. Bad boy gets good girl.
As for Swanfire, I think they have better story telling experience its different, its unique, and its original. I can actually see them growing old together and the other person I can see that with was Graham.
Yes Hook is right Emma would have to make a choice but she can not make a choice right there and she can not deal with this right now. There is a time and a place and this was not the time nor the place to put demands on her. Her son’s life is at stake.
Also fans said she called out Hooks name, yes she did, but you know what else I heard, “Emma go away, save yourself.” Neal is fighting for her, and when she told where they can go with this love triangle. Neal told her she was right and that if the only thing that came from us was our son, then at least we did something right! Emma smiled briefly at that because it was reassuring. And she even told him, now lets go get our son! Even if Swanfire is not endgame, Swanfire-Family would be no matter what! But if they can find love and be a family once more, that would just be an awesome happy ending for all.
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
I will admit I was starting to like Hook this season, but I felt he took a big step backwards in last episode. As the writers have said its very easy for the characters to fall back into their ‘nasty habits’
Hook has fallen hard for Emma and seems to be very far ahead with his feeling for her. Yes they shared a kiss but he is acting like he has a claim to heart already. Emma herself has stated it wasn’t important (whether you believe her or not). I also disliked how he played on Emma’s vulnerability. I couldn’t help but feel he only said that he believed she would save Henry because he knew how much she needed to hear it. He seems to only show an interest in Henry to appease her.
I was disappointed in the Captainfire scenes too. I was expecting to see Hook have a crisis of honor over self interest, but he is acting like he has already won over Neal.
kfchimera: I just listened to the song and I love it. I’ve been listening to a lot of Mumford and Sons recently, their songs always make me think of Neal/Bae
"The little guy saved us." - Neal Cassidy
I wonder if Hook’s character backtrack has to do with being in Neverland. Is there a part of his personality that is weak and that he will have to work to correct if he is going to have healthy relationships?
I agree that as it currently stands, I dislike the message of CS and it also makes me uneasy that girls could look at this situation and see a romance to try to emulate in their real lives.
In the beginning of last night’s episode, Neal and Emma were not only sitting together, they were sitting identically. I’m not sure which one was mirroring the other, but that tends to be a real life sign of affinity. It’s amusing even if it’s just something the actors did.
Belief in SwanFire
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