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I think CaptainSwan and SwanFire are both going to happen. Neither one can be endgame without the other having been played out. As for which will be endgame, that remains to be seen. However, Neal betrayed Emma. No matter what his reasons, whether they were justified or not, a betrayal is still a betrayal. His actions have affected her life. She went to jail and now has trouble trusting people because of him. That aspect can’t just be ignored.
Yeah, but that’s what makes Neal/Emma more interesting than Hook/Emma to me, they have issues both internal and between themselves, that’s a great background for storytelling for the seasons to come, to see them slowly resolve them. Hook/Emma, on the other hand, I can’t see a storyline coming out of a lasting relationship of them that isn’t already being covered by Rumple/Belle, that is, the bad boy/guy that finds redemption by the love of a good-heartened girl.
And then there’s the question of what would qualify as a happily ever after for Hook. Back in the day, he seemed to me to be a man who didn’t want to become attached to a single place, who sought for adventures, to sail through the seas, to see the world. Milah too craved all that, and that’s what brought them to be in love with each other, but Emma wants the opposite, she wants a place to call home, and that’s in Storybrooke with her son and parents. Would a Hook who has fully let go of all the hatred that has driven his life since Milah’s death finds fullfillment in settling down? It’s possible, I guess, as people’s idea of a happily ever after can change over the course of a lifetime, but I’m more inclined to believe he’d want that life that drew Milah to him once again. Feel free to disagree with me.
[adrotate group="5"]I think CaptainSwan and SwanFire are both going to happen. Neither one can be endgame without the other having been played out. As for which will be endgame, that remains to be seen.
I agree that both relationships will be explored, and they should be. Emma has a connection with both guys. I think her relationship with Hook can be just as vital and rewarding for her character growth if they just remain close friends. But I can also see that there’s a basis they could build on if they do want to have them getting romantic.
However, Neal betrayed Emma. No matter what his reasons, whether they were justified or not, a betrayal is still a betrayal.
Same can be said for Hook, though his actions weren’t as justifiable. He was gonna leave her to rot in Rumple’s cell so he could get back to SB to get his Crocodile, (I say this as someone who loves Hook, that was a douchey thing for him to do). Both of Emma’s potential suitors have caused her to end up locked in a jail cell.
His actions have affected her life. She went to jail and now has trouble trusting people because of him. That aspect can’t just be ignored.
Her parents’ actions affected her life negatively too. She was growing up alone, never belonging, never having a family, and stealing to survive (even before she met Neal), because her parents sent her away.
They did so with the hope of giving her her best chance.
Emma gave Henry away with the hope of giving him his best chance.
Neal gave Emma away with the hope of giving her her best chance of finding her family one day.
If Henry can forgive Emma and love her. If Emma can forgive her parents and love them. Why then couldn’t Emma also forgive Neal and still love him too?
Yeah, but that’s what makes Neal/Emma more interesting than Hook/Emma to me, they have issues both internal and between themselves, that’s a great background for storytelling for the seasons to come, to see them slowly resolve them.
And redemption is one of the main themes of this show. Characters who have done evil deeds are getting redemption arcs. Neal has never done an evil deed.
Neal is the guy who sacrifices himself for the well being of others. He went down the beanhole because he was willing to leave the only world he knew because doing so would save his father’s soul. He went with the Shadow because it was the only way for the Darling boys to remain safe. He let go of Emma’s hand so that Henry wouldn’t lose both of his bio-parents, the way they had both lost their parents.
If anyone on this show deserves to be forgiven and redeemed for hurt he may have caused to others, it’s Neal. And if they’re gonna have Emma reach a place emotionally where she can fully forgive him, I believe she’d also want to be with him again. Seeing them work through all of that to find their way back to each other wholly and completely would make for some wonderful, emotional drama, which would see them come full circle, back to the blissful time when they first met. And that’s some fulfilling, romantic storytelling right there IMO.
And then there’s the question of what would qualify as a happily ever after for Hook. Back in the day, he seemed to me to be a man who didn’t want to become attached to a single place, who sought for adventures, to sail through the seas, to see the world. Milah too craved all that, and that’s what brought them to be in love with each other, but Emma wants the opposite, she wants a place to call home, and that’s in Storybrooke with her son and parents. Would a Hook who has fully let go of all the hatred that has driven his life since Milah’s death finds fullfillment in settling down? It’s possible, I guess, as people’s idea of a happily ever after can change over the course of a lifetime, but I’m more inclined to believe he’d want that life that drew Milah to him once again. Feel free to disagree with me.
No disagreement here, in fact it’s one of the reasons I crackship Hookriel, because Ariel was all about wanting to explore new worlds and would happily sail the seas with Hook for the rest of their days.
Emma’s been moved around her whole life against her will. I reckon she’d love nothing more than to be able to have a home to come back to every day for the rest of her life. No more temporary homes. No more living out of a car. No more sneaking into newly vacated hotel rooms to grab a shower before housekeeping comes along. No more having to move around constantly, always looking over her shoulder. No more isolated apartment where she doesn’t even properly unpack her few boxes of belongings. After almost 30 years of that crap, if I were Emma, I’d wanna settle down, I’d want a place to truly belong, and family to belong with.
Neal’s greatest wish has always been to have a family. As a kid, the happiest time in his life was the couple of weeks he spent with the Darlings as part of their family. He didn’t feel that sense of belonging somewhere again until he met Emma and they dreamed of Tallahassee.
SwanFire both want to settle down. Hook may have decided he wants more from life now, but I can’t see him giving up the JR for a picket fence.
I also popped by Schmacky’s site during the forum downtime. I agreed with that fairytale post. I made one comment there anonymously. Sticking to the ask box word limit was so hard for me, I never tried again. The comment was about how the officer that arrests Emma says possession of stolen goods, and how Emma really went to jail for her own crime. Schmacky responded that Emma’s point of view was that it looked like he’d framed and manipulated her.
I agree that is how Emma thought about it for years, but she had to rethink everything when she heard more of Neal’s story. Its not like she was some innocent kid who he swept off her feet, knocked her up, then framed her for his crime so he could get away. She would have risked jail for him if she thought it would help them be together. So he made mistakes sure, and he did betray her, but unlike some others, he’s acknowledged what he did to her and apologized for the hurt he caused.
So maybe it hasn’t been “dealt with” enough for some fans, but for others its a sub plot that’s dragged on too long already . She loved him, he loved her, but stuff happened, and now they’re apart, whatever, where’s Peter Pan so he can rrrrrrrippp a shadow?
If you step back from the romance, you realize Emma has connected with a LOT of people. It’s not just Hook, but she has used her pain to help her connect with Anton, Ashley, Aurora, Regina and pretty much any other character who made a bad choice and needs a second chance. If she can feel that way with so many others, she really isn’t so badly damaged that she can’t forgive Neal when knowing his side of things.
The writers are not locked into making SF happen or CS. They don’t have to give Emma a romance, as she HAS a true love as a mother for Henry. They could even end the series with it being slightly ambiguous about whether she has a romantic relationship with anyone or as it is now, with so many ships you could have an armada. Just look at the “payoff” for WoodenSwan’s build up–need we say more? These writers can flip the page, and start a new story and call it a twist. We fans won’t like it equally well of course, but writers weave between foreshadowing things and reconfiguring them. That’s the nature of television writing.
So this summer, I’m hoping for SF, but who knows, this time next year the only thing I KNOW I will root for is renewal….or maybe not even that (see Season 3 of Heroes….never have I been so happy for a show I loved so much to end so fast).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Hey, hey. WoodenSwan is still possible…in twenty years. 😀
I do feel bad for the WoodenSwan shippers. I might not have shipped it, but that ship went down with a cannonball. Kerplunk!
Eddy and Adam are in a pickle. With three (and more) groups of shippers fighting over who is best for her, when they finally do pair Emma with someone they’re going to have so many people firing off. “What about the parallels?” “I feel lied to and betrayed!” “You just hate same-sex couples”. Tumblr will go mad and fangirls all over will be threatening to quit the show. Doesn’t really matter who they pick for her, either. This is going to be the result. What fun, what fun!
I do admit when the series ends I want to see Neal, Emma and Henry living in their own “castle”, whether it be in Storybrooke or the Enchanted Forest. Now that’s a happy ending. 🙂
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
I LOVE Shmacky’s post from Tumblr (a website I rarely visit because it kind of scares me, LOL) and I too think that SF would be the best story to tell for these characters and for what the show seems to be all about overall. I will also be stunned if they don’t end up together at the very end. :)I am SOOOO anxious for ComiCon to get here simply so we can hear from the cast again and get a few more teasers from them about season three. Anyone want to bet against them sitting Jen right smack between MRJ and CoD during the panel??! LOL 😆
#MoreBOOMLessGloomHeather, we were talking about that on the Comic-Con thread. If they sit her next to one and not the other, people will flip out. If she sits between them, then people will be counting the number of times she looks/answers comments to MJR or Colin to see who she favors. And if they sit her next to Lana it will fire up the SwanQueen fans. So really, the only people she can sit next to without causing controversy is right between Ginny and Josh, mom and dad.
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
There is no winning with where JMo sits. Honestly, I think they’ll seat the cast in “rank” order like they do with Paley. So at the head of the table: JMo, Ginny, Josh, Lana, A and E, RC, EdR, Colin, MRJ.
What is this tumblr post? I haven’t read it.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The comment was about how the officer that arrests Emma says possession of stolen goods, and how Emma really went to jail for her own crime. Schmacky responded that Emma’s point of view was that it looked like he’d framed and manipulated her. I agree that is how Emma thought about it for years, but she had to rethink everything when she heard more of Neal’s story. Its not like she was some innocent kid who he swept off her feet, knocked her up, then framed her for his crime so he could get away. She would have risked jail for him if she thought it would help them be together.
This is so true.
Also, another point, I’m sure that when they arrested Emma, they would have questioned her about anyone else being involved. If so, she didn’t give him up. Even when she was thinking that he’d set her up to take the fall, she still didn’t turn him in. She may have been mad as hell at him, totally heartbroken by what she believed he’d done…but she still kept quiet and protected him, because despite it all, she still loved him.
Now, there are people who would argue that he should have turned himself in anyway to save her. I’m one of the ones who argues that he had been given reasons by August that made him believe that there was only one action he was able to take, and that was to leave her.
BTW, on the subject of August, here’s another little something I found on tumblr recently which I thought made a lot of sense:
http://onceuponaconfessiontime.tumblr.com/post/54626961931
It negates the argument that Neal could have stayed with her and she still could have fulfilled her destiny to break the curse. She needed to have had her belief in love broken, otherwise true love couldn’t have been sparked in her, and that’s what was necessary to break the curse and save everyone.
Anyway, getting back to my other point…basically, Neal can’t shoulder all the blame for Emma being the only one of them who went to jail. She knew his name, she knew his last location, she could tell them what kind of very distinct car he was driving. She could have told them that he might make for Tallahassee. She could have easily helped the cops catch him, and then he would have done the time, and she maybe wouldn’t have done as much time.
So at the end of the day, all things considered, from the fact that she was a willing accomplice in the crime, (hell it was even her idea and insistence to get herself neck deep involved in it), to the fact that she didn’t give him up, you really can’t just hate on Neal for having screwed up her life by sending her to jail.
Eddy and Adam are in a pickle. With three (and more) groups of shippers fighting over who is best for her, when they finally do pair Emma with someone they’re going to have so many people firing off. “What about the parallels?” “I feel lied to and betrayed!” “You just hate same-sex couples”. Tumblr will go mad and fangirls all over will be threatening to quit the show. Doesn’t really matter who they pick for her, either. This is going to be the result. What fun, what fun!
They’re seriously damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I say we blame the shipping wars on JMo. If she didn’t have the ability to instantly generate mad chemistry with anyone she shares a scene with, we really wouldn’t have this problem. 😛
What is this tumblr post? I haven’t read it.
Link is in one of my previous posts. 🙂
Maybe she did try to give him up, because he might have just evaded the police. We don’t know, and there’s so much left untold about the sequence of all those events that people can have a lot of fun with the head-cannon. I like the idea that she stood by him, and it was only after years of not hearing from him that she gave up hope.
Josephine, I LOL’d at your comment that WS is possible, yes, they could do an epic May December romance, after all Gold is older than Belle, double standard to say we can’t have cougar Emma. I agree also that the writers are sure to disappoint some fans, no matter what they do now.
In a novel, you just wait for all to be made clear. I wonder, if Pride and Prejudice were being shown as a serial drama, would be all these fans be pushing Wickham & Lizzie and devastated when she ends up with that jerk Darcy, or how she really should have been with her friend Charlotte? Maybe they make fun of that side of fan culture in Lizzie Bennet Diaries–I haven’t watched it. If they didn’t, someone should. It’s too hilarious how we can all get carried away as fans. Hm….I can just imagine fanship views for all kinds of classic stories now (Frodo and Sam are SOOO endgame, but Gimli and Legolas are my OTP). Petruchio should have been with Bianca. Cinderella should have had the fairy godmother turn Jacque into a human, because he fought for her, and the Prince didn’t look for her himself, sent the Duke to do it. He probably wouldn’t have loved her in rags, and Jacqque was by her side the whole time. This could be quite a fun thread actually, since isn’t part of OUAT’s fun that they are rewriting the classic tales? No wonder it brings out some imaginative and determined shippers!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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