Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[MsKt86]

I’ve just caught up on the last few posts and I just wanted to say how happy I am to have found this board. (THANK YOU HEATHER!!) It’s so refreshing to read all of your posts and I wanted to say how awesome you all are! 😀

Anyway I wanted to add my thoughts on the latest interview with Jen. Normally I love reading her interviews especially when it comes to the show. I always find her answers insightful and you can really see her passion and love for Emma Swan. She loves her character as much as we do!

However this interview left me feeling quite flat and somewhat confused about the show. I know Jen has no control over the questions she gets asked but I am finding the media fascination with Hook/Emma and the love triangle very frustrating to the point I feel its starting to ruin my enjoyment of the show (Sorry I don’t mean to sound so negative.)

When it came to her answer about Hook, I wasn’t sure if Jen was answering from Emma’s perspective or the storyline in general. From Emma’s point of view she has seen a new side to Hook and I would be lying if I said she hasn’t. But as an audience member we can see how he is keeping her in the dark about his true past with Milah/Bae and we know his actions have not all been done selflessly to help save Henry.

One of the many things I love about Emma is she doesn’t take crap or lies from people. She continually calls Regina, Rumple and even her parents out on their faults and mistakes. So seeing Hook getting a free pass at the moment is really annoying me to the point I feel like I don’t really understand the Emma we are seeing right now. I’m hoping Neverland, the worry of saving Henry and confronting her past are the reasons behind it.

From a SF shipper point of view the only positive thing I could take from her answer was the part when she said ‘whether or not it turns into something more.’ Was that Jen trying to play up the friendship angle of their relationship? I know she has to answer these questions carefully in fear of upsetting the masses or maybe I’m reading too much into it.

I also didn’t really understand her answer regarding why Emma wanted to save Neal. (I am glad however Jen brought up Neal. I’ve never seen a love triangle so one sided.) I for one didn’t agree with her answer because this was not what I saw in the episode. I saw Emma terrified and scared to even admit the possibility that Neal was alive. Not once did she say we need to save Neal to help save Henry. She saved him because she owed it to Henry and more importantly to herself. Though Jen does know her character more than me but if that was the only reason to why she saved Neal than the show did not convey that to me as a viewer.

I am looking forward to seeing Neal play a big part in helping Emma defeat Pan. I’m sure I read an interview from MRJ where he states Neal will help Emma remember who she is when she starts to lose herself. Maybe Pan has one more mind trick to play.

Sorry for rambling on I didn’t mean to sound so negative, but on a positvie note I can’t wait for the next episode and I’m still waving my Swanfire flag high! 🙂

[RumplesGirl]

However this interview left me feeling quite flat and somewhat confused about the show. I know Jen has no control over the questions she gets asked but I am finding the media fascination with Hook/Emma and the love triangle very frustrating to the point I feel its starting to ruin my enjoyment of the show (Sorry I don’t mean to sound so negative.)

You’re not the only one. While I’m a fan of the show first and foremost, the CS media spin is getting a little tiresome. I wonder how A and E react to it. If they’ve planned SF from the beginning, then constantly having CS brought up by outside sources must be tiring.

When it came to her answer about Hook, I wasn’t sure if Jen was answering from Emma’s perspective or the storyline in general. From Emma’s point of view she has seen a new side to Hook and I would be lying if I said she hasn’t. But as an audience member we can see how he is keeping her in the dark about his true past with Milah/Bae and we know his actions have not all been done selflessly to help save Henry.

Also, this new side isn’t exactly the knight in shining armor. The past 3 episodes have, for me, really killed any respect Hook was getting in my eyes for the first four. And episode 7 really turned me off.

So seeing Hook getting a free pass at the moment is really annoying me to the point I feel like I don’t really understand the Emma we are seeing right now. I’m hoping Neverland, the worry of saving Henry and confronting her past are the reasons behind it.

Yes I am getting annoyed as well. Everywhere I look it’s “Neal has so much to make up for” and of course he does. But…why doesn’t Hook? It wasn’t that long ago, show wise, that Hook left her in jail, tortured Archie, shot Belle, and then left them all to die.

From a SF shipper point of view the only positive thing I could take from her answer was the part when she said ‘whether or not it turns into something more.’ Was that Jen trying to play up the friendship angle of their relationship? I know she has to answer these questions carefully in fear of upsetting the masses or maybe I’m reading too much into it.

I also responded well that quote. I’m hoping it’s JMo warning that the CS romance might not make it out of NL.

I saw Emma terrified and scared to even admit the possibility that Neal was alive. Not once did she say we need to save Neal to help save Henry. She saved him because she owed it to Henry and more importantly to herself. Though Jen does know her character more than us but if that was the case the show did not convey that reason to me watching.

Agreed. There was nothing about “we need to do this to save Henry” it was “we need to to do this.” Period.

I am looking forward to seeing Neal play a big part in helping Emma defeat Pan. I’m sure I read an interview from MRJ where he states Neal will help Emma remember who she is when she starts to lose herself. Maybe Pan has one more mind trick to play.

I’m hoping with the sneaks and the promo pics that 308 is a hefty SF episode. We could use a little something

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

I thought of J.Mo’s interview as a question of editing.  For example, if J.MO were to say Hook is surprising Emma and impressing her, that is true but really the crux of it is that Emma has such low expectations for him in particular, but also in general due to her very hard life with so few people who have come through for her.  Of all the people on her rescue mission, he has the least personal stake in saving Henry for Henry’s sake, so of course it does say something to her that he’s actively trying to help, as opposed to just looking out for himself.  He doesn’t need to do it.  In Emma’s experience, the “old Hook” wouldn’t have done it, except the “old Hook” was motivated by revenge. The new one is motivated by “his happy ending” that he’s defined as being with her.  

I get that Jennifer Morrison can only respond to questions in a way that lines up with what we viewers have seen so far. And so far, all Emma has seen is Hook trying to help her save her kid. Yet, if she thinks he’s doing it out of any sense of nobility, she’s got another thing coming. Hook isn’t doing it for Henry’s sake, he’s doing it for Emma’s sake. While that might not such a bad thing in and of itself, it does show he’s thinking of his own interests because he thinks it’ll win him Emma’s heart. Right now, as of 3×7, Jennifer Morrison said Emma sees a new side to Hook, the one who said he isn’t using any trickery. Yet, Emma is in the dark about Hook’s conversations with her dad about his true motives or Hook’s complicated relationship with Neal. I think a lot is about to come out in 3×8 when Rumple reenters the group dynamic. There are promo pics of Rumple, Hook, and Emma, with Neal in the background, and I think Rumple is revealing the truth about how Hook seduced his wife and ran off with Neal’s mother. The expression on Emma’s face is one of contemplation and then surprise.Also, in the promo for 3×8, Rumple can be seen taking Hook’s sword from its sheath…presumably to threaten Hook. I really want DaddyRumple to warn Hook to keep his hands hook off of Emma, since Rumple so strongly favors Emma and Neal together. Rumple needs to stick up for his son, too, to show his paternal concern and love, because he doesn’t want Neal to suffer the same degradation of seeing Hook make a move on the mother of his child as Rumple did. There is so much potential for delicious drama, and I can’t wait to see how Emma would handle such a major revelation.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[kfchimera]

I’ve just caught up on the last few posts and I just wanted to say how happy I am to have found this board. (THANK YOU HEATHER!!) It’s so refreshing to read all of your posts and I wanted to say how awesome you all are!  

Awww, you are too, and not just for the vids!  I’ve got a big ol THIS to your last post, but a few things to add in addition to that.

Anyway I wanted to add my thoughts on the latest interview with Jen. …From a SF shipper point of view the only positive thing I could take from her answer was the part when she said ‘whether or not it turns into something more.’

That is a good point, that she said that too.  I think Jen was trying to answer within Emma’s perspective on Hook within that last episode.   Yet the way things get written up keep sounding like Emma is in the same headspace as Hook about his “good form” but she isn’t.   I don’t think she really thinks about the world in that fairy tale way of “honorable” people but there are people who are selfish and those who aren’t.  People who will help her and people who might hurt her.

Compare these two sentences about Emma’s opinion of Hook:

Emma’s had such a hard life and such bad experiences, including with Hook, that Hook’s really impressing and surprising Emma with how he is acting. VERSUS   Hook’s really impressing and surprising Emma.   She’s had such a hard life and such bad experiences up until now.

The difference in meaning is huge, and if an interviewer is at all selectively editing what the actress says and how she says it, or is in anyway giving her a bit of a leading question, such as “Can you talk about Emma’s current view of Hook in that last episode?” We get this impression that Emma is thinking wow, no one’s ever stepped up like Hook (on), no one never took her side like Hook (on), never gave her a sword as a memento like Hook (on),  …as if she’d turned into well….this:

When what Emma is feeling about Hook is more subtle and more like this:

She does appreciate that he’s being nice, and she isn’t looking to make him her enemy by hurting his feelings.  She isn’t as sure as Belle there that Gaston is wrong, but who knows what Belle might have done in the future if the beast didn’t come along? Emma’s got far more issues than Belle did, so even Hook is being less dishonest than Gaston in his pursuit,  it is going to take a bit more for Emma to really feel she could trust him because they do have a little bit of negative history to overcome too.She’s not restrained by feelings for Neal at this point, because she doesn’t really want to deal with those feelings.  If anything, that Emma has feelings for Neal will only push her more towards Hook (very unlike how Belle felt about Gaston) because that’s easier and a good way to keep her distance from Neal, where some real potential pain might lie.  The thing is, the more serious Hook is and asks her to take him, the less easy that option becomes too.    So if he’s approaching her about “fun” versus “winning her heart”, that could make some difference on her end too.   Emma isn’t a woman who I think would go right for the deep end of the pool in a relationship.  She protects her heart too much.So with Neal, the approach would be friends and co-parents, but with Hook it would be don’t think just feel, but now it is obvious that Hook is thinking of more.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[lunatiger]

Whew had some major catching up to do with the Swanfire thread! Again totally agree with what’s being said here.

Yet, Emma is in the dark about Hook’s conversations with her dad about his true motives or Hook’s complicated relationship with Neal.

 

I agree Slurpeez. I cannot imagine Emma would still be in the dark about Neal and Rumple’s past relationship with Hook and why there is so much animosity between them. This has to come out at some point. I really hope the writers don’t sweep this under the table as well. Because they did that with the revelation of August taking the money! I’m still a little peeve that they did that. But at that point they couldn’t confront a man-turn-child.

I really hope 3×08 sheds some sort of light about who Milah was since Rumple is back with the team. I can’t wait for the interaction with Bae/Rumple/Hook. Given by what we see in the pictures it seems like they have a moment alone together with Emma. And if Rumple hears what Hook’s plans are with Emma, watch out! Papa protective mode unleashed. He knows Bae loves Emma and to have Hook seduce Emma away from him like he did with his wife…it would just be rubbing salt in the wound…I caution Hook to tread carefully. Rumple has done worse for minor offenses. LOL

 

[Slurpeez]

As much as I have the *grabby hands* for any scrap of a spoiler that will give away SF getting back together, part of me would actually have more hope if they kept that storyline seriously under wraps. The way the CS kiss was spoiled so completely, so far in advance, made it seem like just another plot point in the immediate story, not necessarily an advancement of a grand, over arching theme of the story that’s indicating endgame true love. So the less spoilers I hear about SF, the more hope I actually have. It’s totally backwards logic.

That’s an interesting way to look at it. You could even be onto something. Last year, many of us dismissed the idea of a full-fledged CS ship getting out of port. At the time, it seemed like introducing Neal back into the mix and keeping Hook at bay would mean no CS.  Low and behold, a year on and there was a CS kiss. Now that CS has happened (though not full-blown yet), it’s like the media attention has switched completely to Hook, and ABC is heavily marketing him as a “hero” this season. CS fans like to say that SF couldn’t be endgame because that would be too “predictable”, but from the way things are currently being promoted, Hook seems like the more predictable option. Having the media attention of CS gives Adam and Eddy room to take the audience by surprise later when Emma lets it be known she could never love anyone else as she loves Neal. Then enters room for SF moments to build until it’s revealed as endgame.

I think JMo was basically responding to all the people who were all, “Saving Neal was stupid, she’s meant to be trying to save her son, and the side mission was just a distraction.” I remember seeing even an Emma RPer on tumblr got sent a comment about it, and she responded just like JMo did: we need him to get off the island. So I can just imagine what people said to JMo directly about it. Those types of viewers won’t give credit to an interview answer where JMo talks about Emma loving Neal, but an answer that addresses just the fact that they did need him to help the mission might actually get through to them and make them shut up about it.

That’s true. Clearly, all the blind Neal-hate that has been circulating on social media platforms has reached the ears of Jennifer Morrison, which is really quite sad. I think Phee is correct in saying that Jennifer Morrison was speaking purely from a narrative perspective, not a character perspective. Neal is absolutely instrumental in saving Henry, because not only is Neal Henry’s father, but Neal is also the only one who knows how to heck to get off the island. Even Neal-haters can’t deny that Neal was essential to the plot for that reason alone, even if they fail to acknowledge Neal’s significance to Emma.

Now, we SF/Neal fans know there is always something more when it comes to Emma’s motives about Neal, and just as Snow White said, Emma owed it to herself , not just Henry, to find out if Neal were alive since happy endings always start with hope. I think Snow is a character who reads people’s true motives really well, and in 3×4, Snow compared the way Emma feels about Neal to the way Snow herself feels about Prince Charming. I think Snow is acting as Adam and Eddy’s mouthpiece about where Emma’s heart truly is –with Neal. Snow sees that Emma uses walls to hide behind, and I bet dollars to doughnuts that Snow believes Emma sees Hook as an excuse to hide behind, because it’s a heck of a lot easier to hook up with an attractive pirate than it is to confront one’s own insecurities, misconceptions, and fears from a difficult and painful past with Neal and her own parents. So far, Emma’s response to both her parents and Neal, who all love her, has been to shut down her emotions, because of her own abandonment issues.

Up until 3×7, Emma was tolerating Hook’s advances to a certain degree, because she needs his help. But Hook pushed too hard in 3×7 when he continued to mount pressure on her to choose and she responded by choosing Henry, putting Hook back in his place. His response? To sulk. As I’ve said, this is a huge red flag if a grown man can’t respect a mother putting her child’s welfare first, especially when that child’s life is at risk. I really hope that Emma starts to view Hook’s more clearly since she said the only decision she has to make is how best to save Henry. A concerned mother can’t afford to let her attention be diverted as it was in 3×5 from kissing Hook; I think 3×7 showed Emma getting her act back together by saying that none of the romantic attention she’s getting is important since what matters is getting back Henry. I was really pleased that the writers chose to make Neal’s motivation be his son, and his agenda aligns exactly with Emma’s since they both have to parent Henry together. Hook continuing to act miffed, hurt, or even indignant is a total turn-off for me, and I’m actually pleased to see where the writers take Hook versus Neal. The contrast seems clear in my mind, and I’m hopeful it’s increasingly evident to Emma, too.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[molly]

A concerned mother can’t afford to let her attention be diverted as it was in 3×5 from kissing Hook; I think 3×7 showed Emma getting her act back together by saying that none of the romantic attention she’s getting is important since what matters is getting back Henry.

Is it an accident that Emma started to get her act back together once Neal was alive and present?

I think that the arc here is for Hook to eventually realize that Emma has feelings for another man.  Hook may begin the process of understanding that everything isn’t about him and that could lead to the character growth necessary for him to have real relationships with people, like Neal, or a true friendship with Emma.  Maybe that will lead to his ultimate happy ending with Tinker Bell, or Ariel (how set in stone is her thing with Eric at this point?).

That Hook’s superficial intentions are being shown to the audience suggests that Emma will find out, too.  She’s been subject to superficial relationships for most of her life so it will be familiar and not what she’s looking for.  I’m not convinced that a full fledged CS thing is necessary to get all of this across.  I’m not sure that it’s even possible with Emma’s two recent, “I love you” statements to Neal, regardless of how fraught with drama they were.

Emma’s big fears with Neal seem to center around fear of not being loved (she’s coming to terms with Neal really having loved her) and fear of losing him/not being with him.  With time, and the assurances of Neal’s ongoing presence in her life no matter what, those fears seem managable.

From pages back, (I apologize for the lateness, I have a full time job and conversation moves fast here) I like Neal’s self-awareness.  He seems comfortable with who he is, flaws and all.  A barbeque at Neal’s house would be relaxed and fun.

Belief in SwanFire

[RumplesGirl]

Emma’s big fears with Neal seem to center around fear of not being loved (she’s coming to terms with Neal really having loved her) and fear of losing him/not being with him. With time, and the assurances of Neal’s ongoing presence in her life no matter what, those fears seem managable.

I think this is really important. Her whole life, Emma has felt unloved and unwanted. And when Neal left, she thought it was because he didn’t really love her and that was devastating. But now she is realizing that he has always loved her (just like she has always loved him) and I think, more importantly, Emma might soon start to realize just how manipulated her whole life has been. The events of the past arent what they were thought to be.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

slurpeez108 wrote: A concerned mother can’t afford to let her attention be diverted as it was in 3×5 from kissing Hook; I think 3×7 showed Emma getting her act back together by saying that none of the romantic attention she’s getting is important since what matters is getting back Henry.

Is it an accident that Emma started to get her act back together once Neal was alive and present? I think that the arc here is for Hook to eventually realize that Emma has feelings for another man. Hook may begin the process of understanding that everything isn’t about him and that could lead to the character growth necessary for him to have real relationships with people, like Neal, or a true friendship with Emma. Maybe that will lead to his ultimate happy ending with Tinker Bell, or Ariel (how set in stone is her thing with Eric at this point?). That Hook’s superficial intentions are being shown to the audience suggests that Emma will find out, too. She’s been subject to superficial relationships for most of her life so it will be familiar and not what she’s looking for. I’m not convinced that a full fledged CS thing is necessary to get all of this across. I’m not sure that it’s even possible with Emma’s two recent, “I love you” statements to Neal, regardless of how fraught with drama they were. Emma’s big fears with Neal seem to center around fear of not being loved (she’s coming to terms with Neal really having loved her) and fear of losing him/not being with him. With time, and the assurances of Neal’s ongoing presence in her life no matter what, those fears seem managable. From pages back, (I apologize for the lateness, I have a full time job and conversation moves fast here) I like Neal’s self-awareness. He seems comfortable with who he is, flaws and all. A barbeque at Neal’s house would be relaxed and fun.

Molly:  Don’t worry about bringing in things from further back at all!  Obviously a few of us have a bit of time on our hands here 😛 and it is awesome to have some more voices to speak up on their perspective too.

I agree completely about Neal’s self-awareness and it is interesting really to contrast it with Emma’s lack of that through the first few episodes and maybe you’re right that Neal is bringing out some good things in Emma that we will see more of in the next episode.  I hope so!

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

Obviously a few of us have a bit of time on our hands here

*snort* a bit…

I agree completely about Neal’s self-awareness and it is interesting really to contrast it with Emma’s lack of that through the first few episodes and maybe you’re right that Neal is bringing out some good things in Emma that we will see more of in the next episode. I hope so!

I hope so too!

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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