Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[heatherc1275]

slurpeez108 wrote:

Phee wrote: But if Neal can continue to be there to support her in a non-romantic way, that will gradually give Emma some reassurance that he’s not going anywhere, ever again. She’ll learn that she can depend on him, like she did in the beginning. He can become her constant, (you know they love the LOST shoutouts). And once her confidence in that is established, then she can feel safe enough to reconnect with him in a romantic way as well.

I never watched LOST. What exactly do you mean by a constant in this context? Do you mean a person who is always there for someone else?

I think that is it. Once Emma sees that Neal will always be there no matter what and can be dependable, her walls will begin to come down again for him, I think.

Yeah, that’s pretty good. A constant on Lost was the one person who grounded you in reality (there was this whole time shifting thing on the island that is way too complicated to explain here) and was also your connection to knowing who you truly were no matter which time you were in. For Lost, Penny was Desmond’s constant who helped him break that time shifting thing and grounded him back into his current reality on the island. It’s not inaccurate to describe Neal that way for Emma although without the time shifting thing, it doesn’t quite make as much sense in context, LOL 😆

[Phee]

Heather did a pretty good job of explaining the “constant” basics. It’s pretty convoluted in the LOSTiverse with the time traveling and warping and whatnot. 😆 In a sense, Emma does have two timeframes she’s living in – her pre-fairytale life, and her fairytale life, and she has to reconcile the two, and Neal is a part of both.

Daniel Faraday explains that when a consciousness travels back and forth through time, it needs a constant to latch on to. A constant is an object or person that exists in both periods of time, that the traveler deeply cares about and could recognize. If a constant is not found, the oscillations between different times will become more frequent and chaotic until the individual dies from what appears to be a severe brain aneurysm.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Constant

Brief summary of the plot of the ep titled The Constant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constant

[heatherc1275]

Thanks for the extra info Phee! That was one of my fave Lost episodes but don’t ask me to explain it very well, LOL 😆 (And can I just tangent here for a minute about how cool it is that Lostpedia is still online?! I thought they would deactivate it after the show ended but it’s still out there!)

That’s a great way to put it about Neal being in Emma’s life in two different ways. He connects to the fairytale even though his time there was different from her parents but he grew up mainly in our world which is the only world she knew until her visit to FT land last season. He really is the character that knows her the best and she’s definitely the one who knows Neal the best (even though she’s still learning new things about him in Neverland). I really hope the writers haven’t forgotten that fact in the midst of all this Triangle of Doom stuff.

#MoreBOOMLessGloom

[kfchimera]

That’s exactly it, Astrawoid and Slurpeez.  Lost Spoilers, if you’re willing to spoil it, but Phee, that’s a great comparison —   I definitely get Desmond and Penny vibes from Neal and Emma.  I think A&E may have had a hand in writing some of their story, at least, they did the episode where Claire/Charlie/Desmond plays out to be not a real triangle at all and Charlie ends up sacrificing himself to make contact with Penny to help save everyone.  Charlie having a big brother who’d sort of built up then messed up his life named Liam.   Penny lived entirely in the real world, completely unaware of the mystical island that had a pull on Desmond forcing him apart from her.  Little did she know her own father had been on that island and spent his life and much of his vast fortune trying to get back there, and that she had a half-brother even also drawn to that island, who ended up meeting Desmond.  Daniel (another name ringer!) Faraday was a physicist who used the word constant in the mathematical sense for an equation to help locate the island which skipped through time.  In turn, having someone as a constant, he thought, would anchor him enough to avoid his brain melting down from the time skips.  He chose Desmond as his constant and in turn, Desmond chose Penny. Daniel thought, like Rumple, that he could change fate but it turned out he couldn’t, that all along he’d already been to his own past before he was born, to be killed by his own mother (and she’d sent him there on that mission too!).  There’s definite parallels going on here but all the pieces are jumbled up all over the place. 

Lost is a different story and set of characters, so I guess we just have to see where the writers go in this show. I agree though, Emma has to sort of relearn who Neal is, and realize he’s more than she’s given him credit for being.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

Thanks for the extra info Phee! That was one of my fave Lost episodes but don’t ask me to explain it very well, LOL 😆 (And can I just tangent here for a minute about how cool it is that Lostpedia is still online?! I thought they would deactivate it after the show ended but it’s still out there!)

There were so many great eps of that show, but anything to do with Penny and Desmond was instantly EPIC. I would have posted a link to the more detailed, Lostpedia page about that ep, but it would have melted anyone’s brain who wasn’t familiar with how the show worked. 😆

That’s a great way to put it about Neal being in Emma’s life in two different ways. He connects to the fairytale even though his time there was different from her parents but he grew up mainly in our world which is the only world she knew until her visit to FT land last season. He really is the character that knows her the best and she’s definitely the one who knows Neal the best (even though she’s still learning new things about him in Neverland). I really hope the writers haven’t forgotten that fact in the midst of all this Triangle of Doom stuff.

There’s no other character who has the ability to understand Emma like Neal does, purely because he’s a product of FTL and also growing up alone in our world.

I definitely get Desmond and Penny vibes from Neal and Emma.

I’m sitting here youtubing Desmond and Penny now. The characters are obviously different to Neal and Emma, and Desmond and Penny’s story is completely unique, (I mean, seriously, there’s no way any other show could ever replicate the complexities of LOST and the relationships involved), but there are also some similar story elements in how he left her, and then wanted to prove himself worthy, but didn’t deny that he’d screwed up and hurt her, just like Neal. And she searched for him, similar to Emma going to Tallahassee and then having a job that involved finding people. They weren’t in contact for a pre-destined period of time.

Anyway, because I’m now youtubing Desmond and Penny and reliving their angst and beauty, and so the non-Lost viewers who are reading this can get clued into what we’re on about…

Desmond and Penny in The Constant (with a side of Jafar ;-))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp9nVFHk09A

Lost: Penny’s Letter “Because all we really need to survive is one person who truly loves us”

Desmond and Penny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBmelh9-O7s

(Edited a bunch of times to try and get all 3 vids to embed, but only 1 of them wants to. *kicking it*)

[RumplesGirl]

It’s interesting that you bring up Desmond and Penny (the writers of LOST drew a lot of their inspiration for them specifically from the Odyssey) and I’ve always thought SwanFire had Odyssey overtones. But with Desmond, the really important thing was that before he could be with Penny outright, he had to reclaim his honor. That was a big deal for him. Penny’s father (King George on ONCE) called Desmond a coward a lot and said that running was what he was good at.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

It’s interesting that you bring up Desmond and Penny (the writers of LOST drew a lot of their inspiration for them specifically from the Odyssey) and I’ve always thought SwanFire had Odyssey overtones. But with Desmond, the really important thing was that before he could be with Penny outright, he had to reclaim his honor. That was a big deal for him. Penny’s father (King George on ONCE) called Desmond a coward a lot and said that running was what he was good at.

That’s really interesting and sounds a lot like both Rumple and Neal in s3. Both father and son are trying to find their redemption, so to speak, Neal by fighting for Henry and Emma and Rumple by sacrificing himself to save Henry. And in tonight’s episode, it seems like Neal and Rumple will start on the road to mending their fractured father-son relationship, which is part of the hero’s journey as well. I love the connections you all find!

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[kfchimera]

If they had mashed D&P into the Love Rhombus of death on that show, maybe it would be closer to their approach here.   Question is..given Adam’s tweet about a love rhombus…I now think there will be another point in it to pop up, but question is who?  Ghost of Milah from under the rug they swept her? Tink? Ariel? Regina? Robin (hah I love Litttle Birdies now for some reason).

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Slurpeez]

Question is..given Adam’s tweet about a love rhombus…I now think there will be another point in it to pop up, but question is who?  Ghost of Milah from under the rug they swept her? Tink? Ariel? Regina? Robin (hah I love Litttle Birdies now for some reason).

I thought Adam’s comment about a love rhombus was more of a joke than an actual development. But…maybe. I’ve been hoping for Tinkerbell and Hook eventually finding a love match with each other.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Ranisha Pitts]

I assume Tinkerbell would be thrown in the mix, there are some shots of Beverly, Jen, Colin, MRJ, Tink (can’t remember her name) all going over some lines.

 

"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."

[Author]

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