Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[Slurpeez]

An essay which explores how S3b resulted not only in the death of Neal, but also in destruction of Emma Swan’s characterization as an independent, capable, and reluctant heroine:

The Taming of the Swan

[Rainbow]

Keb wrote:

I think she meant the fans as well as those characters, who at least SHOULD care (and who have expressed some grief, albeit limited considering what they lost), not fans of those characters. However, I’m a big fan of Belle & Rumple, and I care desperately about Neal for Rumple’s sake. So it’s not wholly true that fans of those characters care nothing about Neal.

That’s exactly what I mean Keb. Emma/Henry/Rumple are the characters who Neal meant the most too. Fans too. Whilst people didn’t necessarily ship SF, they didn’t want Neal dead. He still had potential especially for on-going storylines with Rumple and Henry especially now that it seems that Rumple and Henry will be spending more time together. Neal would probably be a bit wary of that since he wouldn’t want Rumple teaching Henry magic. Naming the baby Baelfire would be even worse than naming him Neal. Baelfire was Rumple’s son. No way should “Baelfire is Charming’s son” ever be an actual thing.

I said SF and neal/Bae fans,  not just SF fans because not all Neal/bae fans are Sfers.

Not even mention the baby, bc, whatever.

Also both of you just made my point, in both yours posts you mentioned Rumple and henry relations, so you mean neal as  link to those characters, not as a character that had other storylines outside those people, what about everything that happened after he left Emma, what about his story in NVl, what about the people he meet after arriving to this lan, he is an original character, they could have made storylines with him that dont need any request rights. That is in fact some of the arguments that anti Neal people, makes against him, that he was only there to be linked to Emma/Henry and Rumple, with  no storyline of his own. Like you both said the some henry, rumple fans may like neal bc of their connections, not bc they want to learn who is neal as a individual character, bc if we ask, henry and rumple fans if in case of saving neal,  henry or rumple would need to die, both character fans would say let Neal stay dead, our characters have other storylines,  is sad that he died, but lets move on, since henry and rumple may get close now, neal is not necessary for the storyline.

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[RumplesGirl]

An essay which explores how S3b resulted not only in the death of Neal, but also in destruction of Emma Swan’s characterization as an independent, capable, and reluctant heroine: The Taming of the Swan

Look at this essay and how much sense it makes!!! (sigh)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

I care about Neal outside of his relationship to Rumple, but Belle and Rumple are my favorite characters; what I meant was that if we’re going to tag fans by who they are fans of, you’d have to put me in the Belle/Rumple/Rumbelle corner instead of being strictly SF or a Neal fan.

So what I was saying was that fans of other characters DO have reasons to care about Neal. Not that Neal is unworthy of his own fandom or has no purpose beyond the characters to whom he is linked–I wanted to see more of Bae’s adventures in Neverland, I wanted to see Neal’s arrival to the Land without Magic, and I wanted SF to reunite. I wanted Henry to have his dad in his life–and for Neal to have a chance to bond with his son and rebond with his father.

I truly believe that Neal was the heart of this show…but I’ve got my own little mad obsessions and I admit that they might come ahead of him. I understand the anger because it makes me angry too, the wasted stories his death means. Please understand that I did not mean to belittle Neal in any way, or make it hurt worse.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

Have all the personal obsessions and rankings you want. But maybe we don’t make it sound like Neal is only liked because he’s Rumple’s son which is something that gets launched at Neal fans ALL THE FREAKING TIME. that if Neal wasn’t Bae we wouldn’t like him at all which is…rage inducing.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

I truly believe that Neal was the heart of this show

Ditto. I loved Baelfire. He was the reason for the curse, without whom there’d be no show. He was a lost boy. I also loved Emma. She was the savior of the curse. She was a lost girl. They both were fairytale characters who had to grow up alone in a world that wasn’t their own. Their individual story trajectories were compelling, so when they finally met up in Tallahassee and yet again in Manhattan, I found the coming together of their individual stories into one grand story to be utterly unique and quite compelling.

The fact that the former character died and the latter’s characterization was butchered left me really disppointed. I still like several of the remaining characters, but not enough for me to keep watching. It’s simply no longer an escape, but instead a dreary reminder that in real life, abandoned children really don’t get a second chance. That’s just plain sad.

Emma and Neal were quite simply my favorite characters individually –whether or not they ever got together romantically (though I was certainly in favor of that potential outcome). For me continuing to watch OAUT would be like watching an AU version of OUAT in WL in which Anastasia stayed dead and Will got together with Cora…just no.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Josephine]

I truly believe that Neal was the heart of this show…but I’ve got my own little mad obsessions and I admit that they might come ahead of him. I understand the anger because it makes me angry too, the wasted stories his death means. Please understand that I did not mean to belittle Neal in any way, or make it hurt worse.

I understand where you’re coming from. I am a Snowing fan (or was before they turned stupid in Season Three). I might not wax on and on about them, but I still liked them even and enjoyed their storylines even though I would squeal when Rumbelle or Neal came on the screen.

I will watch tonight. But I feel horrible because I’m no longer in that “What time is it! Is it 8pm yet? I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen!” phase. I admit I’m still interested in what’s going on and how they’ll handle certain situations but I don’t know if it’s just because I cared about these characters and want to hope for a happy ending or in a morbid car wreck kind of way where you just can’t take your eyes off of it.

Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.

[Rainbow]

I care about Neal outside of his relationship to Rumple, but Belle and Rumple are my favorite characters; what I meant was that if we’re going to tag fans by who they are fans of, you’d have to put me in the Belle/Rumple/Rumbelle corner instead of being strictly SF or a Neal fan. So what I was saying was that fans of other characters DO have reasons to care about Neal. Not that Neal is unworthy of his own fandom or has no purpose beyond the characters to whom he is linked–I wanted to see more of Bae’s adventures in Neverland, I wanted to see Neal’s arrival to the Land without Magic, and I wanted SF to reunite. I wanted Henry to have his dad in his life–and for Neal to have a chance to bond with his son and rebond with his father. I truly believe that Neal was the heart of this show…but I’ve got my own little mad obsessions and I admit that they might come ahead of him. I understand the anger because it makes me angry too, the wasted stories his death means. Please understand that I did not mean to belittle Neal in any way, or make it hurt worse.

Nothing against you, waht i meant is that the other characters fans, could never be more upset than the neal fans, that they may like neal, but wont be that hurt by any of this, like Neal fans, so the name, and whatever storylines they may do with Neal after his death, no one will be hurt more than neal fans, so when POM mentioned the other characters, i meant that the other fans dont have the same love for neal that his own fans, bc for neal fans is over, what we have now is memories, while all the other characters have storylines, that the fans want to see. The Name given to the baby , didnt hurt as many fans of Emma, Hnery and Rumple as it did to Neal fans, bc that was obvious a sign that , hey, now lets not mention the other one again, bc we have a new Neal in town. That was what i meant, bc like i said, as long as the other characters have other story lines, neal not being there wont hurt the other fans as it hurts neal fans, Emma, Henry, Rumple fans , wont pass all the 22 episodes thinking about how Neal should be there. I was not angry with you, what i meant is that no fans will miss Neal like his fans, and that the others although may like him, wont think to much about it, while they have other storylines to pay attention, that was what i meant when i said they couldnt care less if he was alive or dead.

 

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[PriceofMagic]

An essay which explores how S3b resulted not only in the death of Neal, but also in destruction of Emma Swan’s characterization as an independent, capable, and reluctant heroine:

The Taming of the Swan

An interesting essay. I don’t really agree with it on most things but it is an interesting perspective nonetheless.

Emma didn’t really do much in 3B however, I think part of that needs to be attributed to the writers wanting to push Regina’s redemption and make Regina look good rather than have it rest solely at CaptainSwan’s door. However, that is not to say that CS may not have played a part in the writer’s minds.

I don’t believe Neal was killed off solely for CS to happen for several reasons:
1. There’s no reason why CS couldn’t have happened without Neal dying if the writers chose to go there.
2. Neal dying has been bad for CS because people think CS is only happening because Neal is dead which doesn’t put CS in a positive light.

I said SF and neal/Bae fans, not just SF fans because not all Neal/bae fans are Sfers.

Not even mention the baby, bc, whatever.

Also both of you just made my point, in both yours posts you mentioned Rumple and henry relations, so you mean neal as link to those characters, not as a character that had other storylines outside those people, what about everything that happened after he left Emma, what about his story in NVl, what about the people he meet after arriving to this lan, he is an original character, they could have made storylines with him that dont need any request rights. That is in fact some of the arguments that anti Neal people, makes against him, that he was only there to be linked to Emma/Henry and Rumple, with no storyline of his own. Like you both said the some henry, rumple fans may like neal bc of their connections, not bc they want to learn who is neal as a individual character, bc if we ask, henry and rumple fans if in case of saving neal, henry or rumple would need to die, both character fans would say let Neal stay dead, our characters have other storylines, is sad that he died, but lets move on, since henry and rumple may get close now, neal is not necessary for the storyline.

If you ask ANY fan to choose between saving their favourite character and saving a character that they like but isn’t a favourite, then obviously they are going to choose to save their favourite character. If the choice was between Neal or background character #1 then people would obviously choose to save Neal. Hell if the choice was between Neal or Snow, I’d choose Neal but since Rumple and Belle are my favourites, if the choice was between Neal and Rumple/Belle, I’d choose Rumple/Belle over Neal

Also sometimes it can depend on when you ask the question. If the choice was between Neal and season 1 Snow, I’d struggle to choose who I liked more but if the choice was between Neal and season 3 Snow then Neal wins all the way.

I care about Neal outside of his relationship to Rumple, but Belle and Rumple are my favorite characters; what I meant was that if we’re going to tag fans by who they are fans of, you’d have to put me in the Belle/Rumple/Rumbelle corner instead of being strictly SF or a Neal fan.

So what I was saying was that fans of other characters DO have reasons to care about Neal. Not that Neal is unworthy of his own fandom or has no purpose beyond the characters to whom he is linked–I wanted to see more of Bae’s adventures in Neverland, I wanted to see Neal’s arrival to the Land without Magic, and I wanted SF to reunite. I wanted Henry to have his dad in his life–and for Neal to have a chance to bond with his son and rebond with his father.

I agree. Neal had potential and unanswered questions that could’ve been explored. His whole Neverland story could easily be covered in a Neverland spinoff along with other unanswered Neverland questions. That’s one problem with having a split season, they’re trying to cram a whole season into half a season so more and more things are going unanswered or glossed over.

I truly believe that Neal was the heart of this show…but I’ve got my own little mad obsessions and I admit that they might come ahead of him. I understand the anger because it makes me angry too, the wasted stories his death means. Please understand that I did not mean to belittle Neal in any way, or make it hurt worse.

I dislike saying any character is the “heart of the show” because the show is bigger than any one character. This isn’t the Regina show or the Henry show or the Emma show etc. Bae was the reason why Rumple created the curse but he wasn’t the reason the curse was cast. Is Bae important to the mythology of the show? Absolutely. Is he vital for the show’s continued existence? No. Would it have been nice for him to live so that unanswered questions surrounding him could be answered? Definitely.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Slurpeez]

Emma didn’t really do much in 3B however, I think part of that needs to be attributed to the writers wanting to push Regina’s redemption and make Regina look good rather than have it rest solely at CaptainSwan’s door. However, that is not to say that CS may not have played a part in the writer’s minds.

Well, I’m pretty sure we won’t see eye-to-eye on this point, but let’s just say that the writers rendered Emma utterly useless in S3b, not because of Regina, but because of HOOK. It was the curse upon Hook’s luscious lips, brought on by his own selfish vow, that deprived Emma of her status as savior by taking away her true love magic. It was an “anti-True Love kiss” of sorts such that the mere touching of their lips made Emma incapable of being able to take on Zelena, which meant Regina did all the heavy lifting. Again, it was the curse on Hook’s lips, not Regina herself, which left Emma impotent. That’s a canon fact. Emma even called Hook “cannon fodder” in 3×20 when Charming insisted she bring along Hook to fight Zelena. If only Emma had just trusted her own instinct and left Hook behind, then she would have had her magic and been able to take on Zelena in her own right. It wasn’t even Hook who restored Emma’s magic in the end, but it was her own memory of Neal telling her what home meant that restored Emma’s light magic. Again, canon fact.

Also, I’ll add that Hook wouldn’t have found Emma in NYC or been able to jog her memory if it hadn’t been for Neal getting the message and memory potion to Hook. But of course, Hook will get all the credit for that heroic feat, because that is what Hook does: he gets all the praise even when he doesn’t prove all that useful. Even in S3a, it was Neal’s idea to capture the shadow that got Emma and everyone home to Storybrooke, yet Hook was still hailed a hero. Go figure.

I don’t believe Neal was killed off solely for CS to happen for several reasons:
1. There’s no reason why CS couldn’t have happened without Neal dying if the writers chose to go there.
2. Neal dying has been bad for CS because people think CS is only happening because Neal is dead which doesn’t put CS in a positive light.

You can believe what you like. However, the writers in 3×17 even had a meta about this. Zelena, disguised as Ariel, asked, “You let a man die for a ship? Who does that?” Now, on the surface that may seem to apply just to Hook letting Blackbeard die to protect the Jolly Roger, yet on a deeper level, I’d argue that line is referring to the writers’ decision to let Neal die so that the CS ship could sail. In my own estimation, there is basically no convincing way CS ever would’ve happened while Neal lived since Hook had a romance with Neal’s mom (a fact Emma still seems not to know yet). Why do you think Milha’s name wasn’t brought up in the S3 finale –even when Past Rumple and Hook met? You’d think the first thing Past Rumple would do is mention the name of Milha to Hook, given the fact that Past Rumple and Hook had yet to come to some sort of understanding about that debacle. Emma likely wouldn’t have carried on with Hook in a romantic way if she knew he’d been romantically involved with the grandmother of her son.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Author]

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