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Thanks for posting that! Even though the FEELS almost did me in. It’s a really beautifully made vid.
[adrotate group="5"]That was a really good vid. The music complimented it well rather than overpowering the entire video.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix“Manhattan”… Neal: Why do you wear the, uh, key chain I got you? Emma: To remind myself never to trust someone again. “Future Ep”… Emma: Why did you keep the key chain? Neal: To remind myself to never let you go again. Aaaaannnnd FEELS.
I’m just now seeing this. OH. MY. GOODNESS.
*WHERE AM I WHAT DAY IS IT…..*Keeper Nealfire's/Bae's scarf, Henry and Neal's bribery ice cream sundae, Baelfire's sword, the coconut map, and more.
Eddy, Adam and Bobby talk a bit about Neal and Emma on the commentary on “Manhattan”. It’s fascinating to hear and they admit that they planned Bae to be Henry’s father from the very beginning.
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
In the D23 panel, Eddy said we might see Neal and Emma flashback to them on the run.
I hope so! The tweet on the plot point shortened this to “we may see Emma’s bailbonds skills” or something, completely did not say the bit about Neal.“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
My thoughts on the PP as mastermind of Swanthief and its destruction: So that theory is out there that PP set up Bae to enter our world to meet Emma to produce Henry. That he then had August (through Tinkerbell) break them apart, so he could get his hands on Henry. Yet he needed Henry to grow up in a part magical realm like SB where Henry would be the only one to age.
So…its fine as an explanation for a lot of things, but from a Swanfire perspective I don’t like it as it leaves Emma and Neal as mere pawns in someone else’s game. In a way, Snowing were pawns of Rumple’s “investment” in their future. So it’s not horrible if that is the way the writers are going. I just liked the idea that Neal and Emma really did meet by no evil mastermind’s plan. Or even good mastermind…it was just pure coincidence.
The jail needs an explanation as well as how Henry ended up in SB. So most likely there were some nefarious evil masterminds afoot. August couldn’t have had as a 7 year old boy, a lot of information about the curse and remembered it years later exactly what he needed to do to get Emma to break the curse. In fact, all we ever see Rumple tell Snow is 28 years later, her child will do it.
There was no instruction manual about what “breaking the curse” meant. August didn’t seem to know what was needed other than getting Emma to believe in magic. How did he even know that much? Yet the curse doesn’t break when she believes, does it? She’s believing when she confronts Regina, makes the deal with Rumple and kills the dragon and still the curse is not broken. It takes Henry dying for her to feel true love, that emotion that sweeps out of her and breaks the curse. I don’t think it was her belief in magic at all. She doesn’t kiss him thinking she can save him and wake him. She thinks he’s dead.
Well if Neal had stayed with Emma, and she loved him, the curse would have broken when they entered town perhaps. Or perhaps not, perhaps it would have taken someone she loved to be under threat again for that magic to well out like that. And with Rumple and Regina not held back by love for Belle and Henry, they would have quite possibly destroyed everyone and everything. Neal would not have known THAT, and we don’t even know that for sure now, but what Neal knew was simple. His father is no longer a good man. If his father manipulated this curse to find him, then maybe he would hurt Emma. He’s been told Rumple killed Milah. He might not have believed Hook entirely, but he has reasons enough to doubt.
Reasons to think he can better protect and help Emma by getting out the way, especially when the guy who seems to know things says so. Pinnochio may have the reputation of a liar, but Bae knows the reputation of these stories doesn’t match the reality. He’s probably met PP, he definitely met Hook. He knows Rumplestilskin and the Blue Fairy aren’t exactly as Disney portrayed.
So I think August guessed Bae would be trouble, and Bae accepted it. Both may have been wrong, or not, but I think they were both caught off guard by Emma getting thrown in jail.
I think this is where the HO came into it. It seemed like there was a second conversation offscreen between August and Bae, where they “went over” Emma going to jail or the possibility of it. August’s line is “August: No. We went over this. It’s good.” when Neal says: “That should be me! I should be doing that time.” So what if Neal finally agrees to leave Emma, but says he has to see her to at least say goodbye, break up with her, and then he sees she’s being arrested. August, still following him, stops him from interrupting the arrest, pointing out it won’t help her, might make it worse. That if Neal stays clear, she won’t be charged with being an accessory to his crime, but can get a lesser sentence or something, especially as a juvenile, because now it just looks like a mistake. If he turns himself in, they might connect her to all the other crimes they did together. So now Neal has no choice but to leave and stay away, until she’s out of jail. Plus he has to wait until the curse is broken, just to be safe she will break it and he won’t get in the way. Yet how could she ever get over this?
I guess I don’t want August to be an even bigger betrayer, rather than someone who was selfish, and I want Neal’s guilt and self-doubt not to be waved away by him being even more setup than it seemed. He made a hard choice out of love, the way Snow did. Part of the lovestory is forgiving in such a circumstance.
I am losing my point here I think…
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
It takes Henry dying for her to feel true love, that emotion that sweeps out of her and breaks the curse. I don’t think it was her belief in magic at all. She doesn’t kiss him thinking she can save him and wake him. She thinks he’s dead.
During my recent re-watch of S1, that scene where Emma kissed Henry gave me SwanFire feels. She didn’t just love Henry purely for himself, he was also a living part of Neal that she’d been able to re-connect with. You can’t tell me that that time Henry popped up and scared her in the back seat of the Bug, that she didn’t flashback to how his father had done exactly the same thing. Being around Henry inevitably made her think of Neal. Henry dying was Emma losing both of them.
Well if Neal had stayed with Emma, and she loved him, the curse would have broken when they entered town perhaps. Or perhaps not, perhaps it would have taken someone she loved to be under threat again for that magic to well out like that.
Schmacky did a great tumblr post just the other day about, “what if they’d stayed together”:
Basically, it never would have worked.So I think August guessed Bae would be trouble, and Bae accepted it. Both may have been wrong, or not, but I think they were both caught off guard by Emma getting thrown in jail.
I really hope we get some more flashback info to clarify exactly how Emma ended up in jail. Adam has tweeted that it was not Neal who called the cops, so we can safely say that he’s not the one who ratted her out. Next most likely suspect is August, but, like yourself, I’d prefer if it wasn’t him, and I like your idea that August could have actually pointed out that Neal that turning himself in would have got Emma into more trouble.
If THO had sent August to break them up, I could see someone from THO taking that extra measure of making the call to ensure she ended up in jail, sort of like insurance for the breakup sticking.
Anyway, back to your original point about how them being pawns can detract from the true-ness of their love. It’s a tricky topic with “destiny” and “fate” and whatnot, because on a certain level, it seems to take away a person’s free will. But I think that, generally speaking, when THO and PP aren’t involved in manipulating your life, the universe/God/whatever higher force you believe in, presents you with opportunities, puts you in certain situations that can point you towards where you’re supposed to end up, but at the end of the day, if and how you end up there, and what you get out of it, comes down to how you react to the opportunity being presented. Many a time, I’ve felt like there was some outside force that was sticking a roadsign in front of me with a big arrow screaming, “this is the turn you’re supposed to take”, but I don’t always take it, (then I sit and wonder what would have happened if I did take it, and drive myself insane wishing I could turn back time). For SwanFire, that outside force that steered them both on their separate paths that eventually collided, just so happened to be PP/THO.
Once they did meet, the actual falling in love bit was their own doing. Maybe they didn’t need to fall in EPIC love, they just had to like each other enough that the DNAs of the Saviour and Bae’s (Rumple’s and Pan’s?) bloodline could come together to make the genetically specific kid that PP needed. For that, they just needed to sleep together, and that doesn’t always = true love. Then the genetically specific kid had to be raised under specific conditions, in the specific place that would make him believe in magic, and cause him to draw the Saviour in to break the curse at the specified time. The only thing that was really necessary for the Curse to be broken was true love’s kiss from a mother to her child. Odds were pretty good that no matter what Emma had or hadn’t felt for Neal, she was still gonna love Henry, because he was her flesh and blood that she’d thought she’d lost forever until she’d gotten this miracle chance to be with him again.
I guess what I’m getting at, is that in grand scheme of things, Neal was likely just needed as part of the equation in order to be the specific sperm donor so that Henry had the right genetic makeup. He was later used by THO as a means for Tamara to sneak into SB, but again, it was only really necessary for him to feel a connection to Henry in order to get him there, he didn’t necessarily have to be drawn there by love for Emma as well.
So the fact that they do still have love for each other, even after all this time apart and all they went though, that’s not because it was a necessary part of the overall plan, it’s just because they love each other. If anything, it makes their love even more special and strong, because they were used, and put through hell and heartbreak, but look at them, still loving each other in spite of all that, against those odds.
So the fact that they do still have love for each other, even after all this time apart and all they went though, that’s not because it was a necessary part of the overall plan, it’s just because they love each other. If anything, it makes their love even more special and strong, because they were used, and put through heartbreak, but look at them, still loving each other in spite of all that, against those odds.
This is so beautifully put. Despite all the challenges they’ve faced in life, Emma and Neal still carry a torch for one another, as Mr. Gold said. Even if the circumstances in which they met were scripted, their love was a creation of their own making. No one can force love, let alone force other people to love each other. Love has to be freely chosen and given between individuals. That’s exactly why Emma and Neal are so remarkable in my eyes. Despite growing up without a family and having nothing but the back seat of a car, Emma and Neal sought solace in each other and wanted to create a home together. But, they never got the chance to be a family with Henry because of outside forces keeping them apart. Their love has endured for each other, without reference to Henry and despite the separation, making their love remarkable. It shows that their feelings were based on something real and lasting.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I love how you both put that! It explains perfectly what I think the story being told is, and hope it will continue to be. A tale of two people who hold onto their love despite the outside forces trying to pull them apart, despite their own insecurities and fears. Plus we do know love, real love, cannot be created by magic (best you can do is the illusion), so it was not part of a scheme in that way.
I am wondering what the news that MAP’s story won’t be told regarding Phillip’s soul. Would it be that we see them find him, drag him to Nostos and that’s it for 6 episodes or more?
What if it really is Ariel that helps Neal get to NL? That Ariel helped them get Phillip’s Soul back? I’ll have to repeat this out of this thread I think as it isn’t entirely a shippy thought, but the ship aspect of Ariel bringing in Neal to NL could be that (to me as a Hookriel shipper too), that I absolutely think there’d be nothing romantic. That Ariel would deliver Neal (hah like he’s a pizza?) to NL, and that’s how she would meet Hook. This to me as a shipper sets up that Neal is reunited with Emma, and Hook (who given fan expectation that he and Emma continued to develop on the understanding the two have of each other) is shown as immediately intrigued by Ariel, rather than sad or angry or jealous of Emma and Neal. (The joked about Rhombus).
That might explain why they can’t do the story right away and are being coy about it.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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