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I think the nerves we are feeling has a lot to do with how Hook is being presented this season, like this radical departure from what he was supposed to be: a villain. And with all his crimes being swept under the rug episode after episode and still managing to get a kiss and have “heart to hearts” with Emma….well it makes me nervous, except when I break down his actions and it becomes clear that Hook isn’t exactly on the level.
I get that a lot of CS fans are singing Hook’s praises, but if anything, I think the writers have subtly been painting him as a man who wants honor but doesn’t quite know how to get it. He goes on a mission to save Henry, not because he cares about the boy’s welfare, but because he wants to win Emma. He tries to “bond” with Emma over Neal’s death and Emma’s loss of hope to win her approval. He saves Charming only to garner a kiss out of Emma. Contrast this with Neal who loves his boy and would do anything to save him, even sacrifice his own life. Neal’s reaction to Emma choosing her son was to affirm her decision and then to fight along side her to save their son. Neal told Rumple to offer Charming an elixir, free of charge, because it’s the “right thing to do” rather than to get a favor from Emma like Hook did the kiss. Who, may I ask, is the real man of honor here? It certainly isn’t Hook, who despite claiming Neal to be a “good friend” of his, still knowingly goes after the woman whom Neal loves and rubs it in his face. After centuries, Hook really hasn’t learned anything about doing the honorable thing since he seduced another man’s wife and in so doing helped destroy a little boy’s family. Centuries later and Hook is still intent on doing the selfish thing by trying to come between Neal and his desire to form a new family with Emma and Henry . I’d say the writers are showing Hook in a bad light, and that CS fans have huge blinders on.
Slurpeez108 wrote: While this would be a sad development indeed, I hope you all aren’t giving up hope just when Adam was telling us SF fans to keep hope alive.
No white flag, I promise. But to be fair…Adam tells EVERY ship to have hope. HookedQueen, WoodenSwan. All of them have gotten the “hope!” tweet.
I realize that Adam tells everyone to have hope, and that at a certain point, it can become false hope for the likes of WoodenSwan since August is now a little boy. BUT those ships were never “canon” on the show. Telling SF fans to have hope has real, actual bearing because Emma and Neal love each other. To quote Henry, “in the book, things always look worse right before there’s good news.”
Like I said, it’s the sweeping of Hook’s crimes, that only happened a week ago, under the rug while reinforcing Neal’s selfless actions (but the negativity of them) over and over. Emma’s thinking that Neal didn’t love her all those years, Emma wishing he were dead so that she wouldn’t have to face her feelings. Emma has yet to address the : Hook leaving her in jail, Hook torturing Archie, Hook shooting Belle, Hook working with the people who kidnapped her son, and Hook leaving them all to die. And I’m starting to wonder if the show will EVER address them because they are on this whole “Hook the hero” thing.
I know Hook’s past crimes so far haven’t been dealt with directly, but I’m not buying this “Hook the hero” thing for one second. As I wrote above, I think Hook hasn’t really been shown to be a “man of honor” this season. I actually think the writers have subtly been showing why he’s lacking honor (e.g. expecting a sexual favor from Emma for getting Charming the water versus Neal telling his dad to help out Charming without expecting any favors because it’s the right thing to do). Also, as far as Emma’s feelings for Neal go, she’s affirmed twice since being in Neverland that she never stopped loving him, that she does, and that she probably always will. Sure, she has deeply rooted abandonment issues and resentment towards both her parents and Neal at present, but that is to be expected at this stage and it’s totally in keeping with her character since it takes her a long time to work through things. All throughout season 1, Emma was the skeptic who kept everyone, including Henry, at arms’ length. She never wanted to let anyone who could hurt her, and she told August she didn’t want anyone to need her. She even tried to skip town so she wouldn’t have to face her role as the savior, and she probably would’ve had it not been for Henry taking measures into his own hands by eating the apple turnover. As he said,” You’re just scared. This happens to all heroes. It’s just the low moment before you fight back.” Emma’s tendency had always been to look out for herself so as not to get hurt. Emma has HUGE abandonment issues and is scared of emotional vulnerability. Yet, when Henry nearly died from an apple turnover she believed in the curse and embraced her role as a mother, and hence, as a savior.
Emma may be overcoming her emotional limits to fight for Henry, but she still has the tendency to run from things that scare her. If and when Emma decides to pursue things with Hook, I think it would be taking the easy way out so as not to face her own issues. Somehow it’s almost easier for Emma to overlook the sins of people who aren’t emotionally close to her (e.g. Regina, Rumple, and Hook), than it is to emotionally forgive the people who love her yet have abandoned her (even if that reason was to let her go to be the savior). As the saying goes, “the ones closest to us hurt us the most.” Emma still has a long way to go before embracing her role as a daughter and as Neal’s true love since even though they love her deeply, they hurt her. Yet, this show is about mending relationships and overcoming fractured family ties. I have every faith that once Emma stops running, she realize that things with Hook aren’t right. She’ll realize that she’s “taking the easy way out” by dating Hook, and she’ll eventually start to work through her abandonment issues with both her parents and Neal. That is why I believe Hook is just another wall to hide behind, but she’ll eventually realize that and then come to see the true love her parents and Neal have to offer her.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
know Hook’s past crimes so far haven’t been dealt with directly, but I’m not buying this “Hook the hero” thing for one second. As I wrote above, I think Hook hasn’t really been shown to be a “man of honor” this season. I actually think the writers have subtly been showing why he’s lacking honor (e.g. expecting a sexual favor from Emma for getting Charming the water versus Neal telling his dad to help out Charming without expecting any favors because it’s the right thing to do)
Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you, but we’re on the same ship and have the same mindset. He’s not a hero in my eyes. Everything he has done with this season has been with the intention of getting Emma to see him as a hero, but it’s a false heroism. I just really need someone, ANYONE, to say to Hook: “um, you left Emma in jail to die, denied her the chance to get home (*cough* most important theme to Emma *cough*), shot Henry’s future grandmother, and then left the town to die.” I need someone to call him on his false mourning for Baelfire since it has become painfully obvious that it was all a set up. (grumble, grumble. wasted storyline). I think he is subtlety being written as an obsessed pirate who has no idea what good form really is. It just sucks that Adam keeps saying on Twitter that Neal does have to apologize for his actions to Emma (mostly to VERY loud CSers) and ect but yet neither he nor the show has yet to address Hook’s actions. (At this point I think the marketing teams of ABC is leaning on them but maybe I’m just paranoid).
Like I said, I completely agree that Hook is not a hero and is actually being written as getting worse with every episode (307 really sold that) but the double standard of “Neal’s continued mea culpa to Emma” and “Hook is a hero who does all good things!” is rather taxing.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Like I said, I completely agree that Hook is not a hero and is actually being written as getting worse with every episode (307 really sold that) but the double standard of “Neal’s continued mea culpa to Emma” and “Hook is a hero who does all good things!” is rather taxing.
No doubt it’s taxing, but that is all part of design. While Adam and Eddy always planned for Baelfire to be Henry’s father and Emma’s great love, I think they also planned to introduce a love triangle to keep Emma and Neal separated. They just didn’t know exactly who would be Emma’s second suitor. Adam and Eddy first had to acquire the rights to Peter Pan before S2 to determine how that story would play out and who would be the contender against Bae for Emma’s heart. I think ever since 2×6, we saw a parallel between Hook and Neal, and Jennifer Morrison said via Twitter than Hook reminds Emma of Neal. Hook was introduced as a “gentleman pirate” who lives by his own code, but who seduced another man’s wife thereby taking away Bae’s mom. Now that same drunken one-handed pirate is trying to come between his son figure, the boy he wronged, and the woman whom Neal loves, which is what you’d actually expect a pirate to do! That is Hook’s dilemma: he wants to have good form but struggles to have good substance because it’s hard to change from being selfish for 300 years to be unselfish in a matter of days. Yet, I think Hook’s true redemption will come when he realizes his pursuit of Emma is hurting the boy he seemed to care for (why else keep Bae’s sword all those years?).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
SO MUCH WORD AND PRAISE to you guys for the things you’ve written in the last 36 hours. 🙂 I’ve been sinking into that slightly bummed out phase too (this hiatus is seriously bumming me out hard) and I think I just needed some positive things reinforced in me. I still believe in SwanFire and that this is a story they intend to tell but the CS love gets SO overwhelming in both the entertainment media and in social media that it just beats you down and makes you feel like crap sometimes. I can’t figure out why so many women seem to be attracted to the bad boy persona instead of the good guy, but it happens all the time and I think that’s what’s happening here. The bad boy may be fun in Vegas or for a night on the town but when it comes to family and true values, the good guy is always going to be the one you want to have waiting for you at home. 🙂
BTW-Katie hasn’t posted here in a while (she’s going spoiler free through the hiatus…good luck with that, LOL) but I know she’s planning to do some SF videos while we wait through the agonizing winter break so we can look forward to a bunch of pretty videos soon! 😀
#MoreBOOMLessGloomLike I said, it’s the sweeping of Hook’s crimes, that only happened a week ago, under the rug while reinforcing Neal’s selfless actions (but the negativity of them) over and over. Emma’s thinking that Neal didn’t love her all those years, Emma wishing he were dead so that she wouldn’t have to face her feelings. Emma has yet to address the : Hook leaving her in jail, Hook torturing Archie, Hook shooting Belle, Hook working with the people who kidnapped her son, and Hook leaving them all to die. And I’m starting to wonder if the show will EVER address them because they are on this whole “Hook the hero” thing.
THIS. I’m right there with you on this and I really hope they address it soon because it’s a big red flag to me that they haven’t done so yet. This will bother me forever if Hook’s bad stuff gets ignored and never brought up again. Honestly, I’m still peeved Emma doesn’t know that Milah = Neal’s mother. 🙁
#MoreBOOMLessGloomTHIS. I’m right there with you on this and I really hope they address it soon because it’s a big red flag to me that they haven’t done so yet. This will bother me forever if Hook’s bad stuff gets ignored and never brought up again. Honestly, I’m still peeved Emma doesn’t know that Milah = Neal’s mother
Yes this was basically what I was trying to say. I don’t believe Hook is being written as a hero and Neal as a villain (or coward or anything else) but the big red flag is not how the characters are being presented but how much information and past events–specifically Hook’s past–is being left out. Emma *needs* to find out about Milah if only to make an informed decision. She has to have all the facts, to be fair.
Ok. We gloomed for a few pages (except for Slurpeez and Phee–but that’s why they are the Captains.) 🙂
I’m trying to find a pretty, but failing. So here’s something happy.
Episode 309 clearly shows Emma and Neal fighting side by side against Pan. He’s still got her back and he is the only one she wants next to her in battle.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It’s funny how I agree with what Slurpeez and RG are saying–even though they’re saying opposite things–but it is to me like talking about a glass being half empty or full and that’s why I can agree with both. There’s water in a glass, how we choose to describe it can give a different feeling to what we’re saying.
Slurpeez- I have hope, because of the things you mention. RG on the other hand is pointing out the reasons that hope is not conviction.
Drama is conflict with uncertainty about the resolution. The question is for me, not is there doubt that Neal and Emma can get back together? The question is, is there doubt they SHOULD? The can part is always going to be needed for drama, because otherwise things like “cliche” and “predictable” get tossed about, but even as they make it unlikely, they have to make it seem like a good thing too. They do that by showing us how much these two care and want to be with each other.
So far, well, the storytelling has concentrated on Neal’s side of that equation and not as directly on Emma’s. They’ll have Emma say she loves Neal, but then they aren’t showing us that she is happy to be with him (keeping the triangle alive!). The ways that she has more hope and humor are subtle things that come down to interpretation of what she means. We’re looking for it, so we see it.
Others aren’t and in fact would go to great lengths to avoid seeing anything good about Neal. Some are open to seeing good qualities, but have doubts. Then there are some who only say that they “want” to like him when it seems to me it isn’t that hard to like a character if you really WANT to like the character. There’s a drawing I saw on Tumblr I need to find about another fandom to illustrate this, I will look for it and add later.
SF fans are the ones who want this story to happen and if we are made to wonder, “how can it” as opposed to “why should it” then I’m ok with it. So that is why it is of concern to me how they choose to portray Neal and his actions in the past when they go into it again.
Of less concern is the rumors that Emma might be a bit self-indulgent in terms of enjoying herself with Hook who is, despite his past bad actions, portraying himself as a man who wants her, when she’s spent a lifetime feeling unwanted. That’s appealing so I can see how that would be consistent with her character. The part that isn’t is the part where he’s also a man with a complicated history with people she is supposed to “love” or consider family. Saying that was all before he’d “redeemed” as if its like a curse was broken and he couldn’t backslide is to me bad writing in terms of how Emma should approach thinking of Hook. She’s not a fairy tale character or fan girl. She shouldn’t be so critical of Neal, Snow, and Charming, yet so nonchalant with Rumple, Regina or Hook.
While it is true we can be harder on those we care about and expect much from, compared to those we don’t rely upon–there is a point where that comes across as more than weakness of character, but flat out bad writing. If Emma loves David and Snow, while she might try to bridge the gap with Regina for them, if she only and ever takes Regina’s side, then you have to question how much she does love David and Snow. The same with Neal and Hook.
If she says she loves Neal, yet acts like she “doesn’t owe him anything” all the time, well love isn’t about “owing”–it is you don’t want to hurt people because you don’t want to see the ones you care about be sad. So to me, seeing Emma WANT to hurt Neal by going for Hook that would ruin her character for me. Neal didn’t seek out Tamara because he knew it would upset Emma, and he definitely did not know Tamara would put Henry in danger.
Emma on the other hand, well, she knows Hooks’ done it before, and she knows it would hurt Neal to some degree even if all she thinks is that Hook stabbed his estranged father over some woman named Milah.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
VCF seems to be dropping hints that he’s got some pics that we probably won’t be too fond of in this thread, so I figured a warning might be in order so folks can brace themselves just in case. Whatever may come, keep the faith! I think this might be the scene that someone tweeted “made me curious about someone,” and please to keep in mind that that person, and another girl who was also tweeting about it, both ship SF and were still tweeting smilie faces, so we should stay as smilie as possible too.
VCF seems to be dropping hints that he’s got some pics that we probably won’t be too fond of in this thread, so I figured a warning might be in order so folks can brace themselves just in case. Whatever may come, keep the faith! I think this might be the scene that someone tweeted “made me curious about someone,” and please to keep in mind that that person, and another girl who was also tweeting about it, both ship SF and were still tweeting smilie faces, so we should stay as smilie as possible too.
I’m gonna trust you on that one and try to stay as positive as I can even though I have a feeling I’m going to need a social media break when these pics turn up, but IMO, VCF needs to be banned from the set areas ASAP because the stuff he’s seeing and getting pics of now is probably making A&E very upset because he’s potentially spoiling big things for people who may not want to know right now. He’s also an attention seeking troll with an ego problem but that’s my rant for another thread. 😉
It needs to be posted again:
#MoreBOOMLessGloom
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