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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
No Creepy Hook GIF sets yet but I did find one of him tangoing….
http://dsbjellydonuts.tumblr.com/post/104385416609/heatherc1212-nbctv-captain-hook-has-the This is epic Gold. Last night I had so much fun on twitter!!!! I heart you guys and dolls!
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
So Vanity Fair did a ranking of Captain Hook’s through the ages and here is the entry for Once’s:
This black-leather-clad Hook would rank much higher if he weren’t such a try hard. It’s enjoyable to watch him roll his carefully lined eyes at Pan, but nobody should have their smoulder turned up to 11 at all times.
(x) *smirks* Jason Isaac on the other hand got this mention:
Jason Isaacs is the unparalleled winner here. His wig is on point. (Never a problem for Issacs.) And even though he has all the standard trappings of Hookdom (big hat, long hair, hook, red coat, villainous facial hair) he somehow made it all his own.
Uhmm..yeah. You know That version of Hook is pretty dastardly. I bet the writer would be impress with that performance of all versions of Hook.
My favorite Hook of all time is still Hook from Hook. Because he was just simply so much fun.
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
Jason Isaacs….
Now THAT’S a Hook! I have numerous innuendos I could say right now but the fact that he is possibly old enough to be my grandfather is weird so i’ll just…go sit in the corner over here >>
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICBreaking the rule again of posting ouat things here, but i blame @Jo.
I will post the link, bc has language and i dont have the will to take it.
http://sassyzinger.tumblr.com/post/104364249043/csers-dont-wanna-talk-about-how-hook-is-a
n.b: hope u are able to see this bc today i keep geting blank pages, and is very dificult to edit or write anything, white geting blank pages.
I keep getting blank pages too. It started yesterday.
The whole “rape culture” debate is getting ridiculous. Neither man is promoting rape culture and Neal certainly didn’t to anything wrong. He was in a consensual sexually active relationship with Emma. It’s not like SF were keeping track of each state’s laws to find out whether they could bang or not in that particular state. If Emma fully agreed to it and it was perfectly legal in other states to the north/west/south/east of whatever state they were in, then I don’t see why Neal and 17 year old Emma would be considered “statutory rape”. Also, Emma and Neal were breaking the law anyway, so a higher age of consent in one state isn’t going to stop them from doing something they’ve been doing legally in other states.
I can see why people don’t like Hook, I can see why people dislike CS, but Hook does not promote rape culture. Hook is certainly no Prince Charming but he never forces Emma or other women to do anything against their will. If Hook is guilty of anything, it’s probably being a bit sexist, with his season 2 self showing hints of chauvinism.
The only character on the show that comes close to promoting rape culture is Regina in regards to the whole Regina/Graham “relationship”. Normally the “rape is a special kind of evil” trope is used when the writers want to make a villain completely irredeemable. Villains can do all sorts of things and still be redeemable so long as they don’t cross that line. Regina crossed that line yet the writers have used the “double standards” trope so that she isn’t irredeemable, in fact they are trying to push Regina into hero territory. Even if the writers hand wave the Storybrooke side of the relationship (Graham kind of gave consent even if that consent is extremely morally dubious), there is no way the EF side of the relationship could be considered consensual. It’s coercion. However, because it’s female on male instead of the other way round, the issue hasn’t been given the screen time it would’ve gotten if it had been male on female. As a result of sweeping the whole thing under a rug, the writers and the show have really missed an opportunity to show a progressive attitude to such a sensitive issue.
On a different topic, I am really kind of starting to miss Neal. whether it’s because “absence makes the heart grow fonder”, the writers and the show messed up by killing him off. Besides the fact that Neal had lots of potential story to be told including what he did in the 6 months between falling through the portal and meeting the Darlings, Neverland (If they don’t do a Neverland spinoff on Bae’s time there and his run ins with Pan then they seriously threw away a great opportunity), and also what he did between leaving Emma and Emma finding him again. Imagine the emotional punches there would be if Bae was still in the story now and was under the “Shattered sight” spell. Imagine what he’d say to Rumple and Hook, to Regina and Emma, maybe even to Snowing too. So much wasted story potential.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThe whole “rape culture” debate is getting ridiculous.Neither man is promoting rape culture and Neal certainly didn’t to anything wrong. He was in a consensual sexually active relationship with Emma. It’s not like SF were keeping track of each state’s laws to find out whether they could bang or not in that particular state. If Emma fully agreed to it and it was perfectly legal in other states to the north/west/south/east of whatever state they were in, then I don’t see why Neal and 17 year old Emma would be considered “statutory rape”. Also, Emma and Neal were breaking the law anyway, so a higher age of consent in one state isn’t going to stop them from doing something they’ve been doing legally in other states.
I wasn’t going to comment on this, since the whole debate is getting old, but I will since you brought it up. This is a pro-SF, pro-Neal safe-space, so people here will naturally defend Neal and Emma’s relationship but won’t support Hook or like CS. I will say though that I agree with you that Neal and Emma had a consensual relationship, and like you said, they weren’t keeping track of which states had the legal age of consent being 16 or 17 or 18. We know they were on the road a lot and that they moved around since they lived in a stolen car. One state over from Oregon in Washington, the legal age of consent is 16. Also, there is no way of knowing how old Bae was in terms of youth when he met Emma. We know he was frozen at age 14 for at least a century in NL, and basically nothing on his wanted poster can be trusted, because it’s all made up. Baelfire’s fake identity as “Neal Cassidy” was entirely made up, including his fake birthday. We the audience know Baelfire was not even from this world, nor was he really born on March 21, 1977. That was just some date Baelfire probably made up, like when he invented his whole persona. I wouldn’t be suprised if Bae made it seem like he was older than he appeared to be when he came through to this land at age 14, so as to avoid going into the foster care system. I’m not defending Bae for getting a teenage Emma pregnant, but I will say that he himself may have been a teenager who obviously lied about his birthday. We can’t take his fake birthday of any ‘proof’ of how old Bae really was when he and Emma had consensual sex.
I can see why people don’t like Hook, I can see why people dislike CS, but Hook does not promote rape culture. Hook is certainly no Prince Charming but he never forces Emma or other women to do anything against their will. If Hook is guilty of anything, it’s probably being a bit sexist, with his season 2 self showing hints of chauvinism.
Look, you know if you come into a pro-SF thread to start a debate about Hook that you’re probably not going to get people who agree with you. You may not even like the replies you read. But here it goes. Hook himself boasted in the season 3 finale about having used the tactic of getting women drunk in order to sleep with him. That tactic is a form of rape because drunk women cannot give proper consent. We’ve also seen Hook try and use alcohol on other women, including Tinkerbell and Emma. We saw Hook make a drunken pass at Tinkerbell, who thankfully turned him down because she realized her own dignity. She was fully sober and so that wasn’t going to work on her. We also saw Hook try and get Emma to drink to the point of excess on their date, so that she wouldn’t be able to “resist his charms” even though she had specifically warned him that she didn’t “plunder” on the first date. Even though Emma was the one asking Hook out, and even though he didn’t force himself on her, he was pushing the boundaries, despite her saying in advance not to expect her to go to bed with him on the first date. I’m not saying Hook is a “rapist” per se, but he did boast of having used the tactic of getting women intoxicated to have sex with him, which is what frat boys are known to do when they take advantage of intoxicated young women at parties. He’d also boasted of having had many a man’s wife, and that his crew had all ganged raped Milha (though that was untrue). That type of attitude is demeaning to women, which is just part of the entire rape culture. Hook’s behavior is problematic, because it endorses sex while under the influence of alcohol to a young audience of mostly women who’re already in love with Hook’s good looks and smooth-talking of the ladies. That is problematic, because they see Hook as being so hot that, there is no problem with him getting women so drunk that they wake up the next day in his bed, not recalling having given him any consent. A&E will never admit to doing that, just as they’ll never admit that Regina raped Graham, whose heart she controlled, but the show does implicitly (if not explicitly) endorse rape culture.
The only character on the show that comes close to promoting rape culture is Regina in regards to the whole Regina/Graham “relationship.” Normally the “rape is a special kind of evil” trope is used when the writers want to make a villain completely irredeemable. Villains can do all sorts of things and still be redeemable so long as they don’t cross that line. Regina crossed that line yet the writers have used the “double standards” trope so that she isn’t irredeemable, in fact they are trying to push Regina into hero territory. Even if the writers hand wave the Storybrooke side of the relationship (Graham kind of gave consent even if that consent is extremely morally dubious), there is no way the EF side of the relationship could be considered consensual. It’s coercion. However, because it’s female on male instead of the other way round, the issue hasn’t been given the screen time it would’ve gotten if it had been male on female. As a result of sweeping the whole thing under a rug, the writers and the show have really missed an opportunity to show a progressive attitude to such a sensitive issue.
I have as many problems with Regina’s rape of Graham as I do of Hook using alcohol to get women drunk to have sex with him. Regina controlled Graham and made him do all sorts of things he didn’t want to do, namely be her sex slave. In SB, she also used his heart to make Graham murder Owen’s father the way Rumple is currently using Hook to suck up magical people into the sorcerer’s hat. So Regina, who’d taken away Graham’s real memories and removed his heart, was still capable of controlling Graham while in SB. I really dislike A&E for not admitting that Regina raped Graham. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s a woman raping a man or a man raping a woman, since rape is still rape, which is always morally wrong.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I wasn’t going to comment on this, since the whole debate is getting old, but I will since you brought it up. This is a pro-SF, pro-Neal safe-space, so people here will naturally defend Neal and Emma’s relationship but won’t support Hook or like CS. I will say though that I agree with you that Neal and Emma had a consensual relationship, and like you said, they weren’t keeping track of which states had the legal age of consent being 16 or 17 or 18. We know they were on the road a lot and that they moved around since they lived in a stolen car. One state over from Oregon in Washington, the legal age of consent is 16. Also, there is no way of knowing how old Bae was in terms of youth when he met Emma. We know he was frozen at age 14 for at least a century in NL, and basically nothing on his wanted poster can be trusted, because it’s all made up. Baelfire’s fake identity as “Neal Cassidy” was entirely made up, including his fake birthday. We the audience know Baelfire was not even from this world, nor was he really born on March 21, 1977. That was just some date Baelfire probably made up, like when he invented his whole persona. I wouldn’t be suprised if Bae made it seem like he was older than he appeared to be when he came through to this land at age 14, so as to avoid going into the foster care system. I’m not defending Bae for getting a teenage Emma pregnant, but I will say that he himself may have been a teenager who obviously lied about his birthday. We can’t take his fake birthday of any ‘proof’ of how old Bae really was when he and Emma had consensual sex.
I think Bae might have actually been 15 when he was stuck in Neverland. Rumple became the dark one on Bae’s 14th birthday. A couple of months must’ve passed for Bae to really start pulling away from RUmple considering they had quite a loving relationship up to that point. Add in the 6 months between Bae falling through the portal and meeting Wendy and the couple of weeks where Wendy was hiding Bae. Bae would easily be in the latter stage of 14 or at most the very early stage of 15.
That’s a good point of Bae lying about his age. All we know is that Emma was born in 1983 and Hook was out of Neverland before Snowing met. Depending on whether Bae left Neverland before or after Hook did, though he probably left after because he was at least physically 14/15 and he would’ve had to arrive in the 90s for the 1977 date to work out as 14/15 specifically 1991/1992 and that’s based on Bae doing the correct Math. Emma would’ve been 8/9 in 91/92. if Bae had arrived later in the 90s and gave 1977 as a random date, baring in mind he would’ve needed time to get acquainted with the world say 5 years before meeting Emma, so Bae could’ve been 14/15 in 1995 which would’ve made Emma 12 which only puts Bae 2-3 years ahead of Emma which means that when Emma was 17, Bae would’ve only been 19/20.
Look, you know if you come into a pro-SF thread to start a debate about Hook that you’re probably not going to get people who agree with you. You may not even like the replies you read. But here it goes. Hook himself boasted in the season 3 finale about having used the tactic of getting women drunk in order to sleep with him. That tactic is a form of rape because drunk women cannot give proper consent. We’ve also seen Hook try and use alcohol on other women, including Tinkerbell and Emma. We saw Hook make a drunken pass at Tinkerbell, who thankfully turned him down because she realized her own dignity. She was fully sober and so that wasn’t going to work on her. We also saw Hook try and get Emma to drink to the point of excess on their date, so that she wouldn’t be able to “resist his charms” even though she had specifically warned him that she didn’t “plunder” on the first date. Even though Emma was the one asking Hook out, and even though he didn’t force himself on her, he was pushing the boundaries, despite her saying in advance not to expect her to go to bed with him on the first date. I’m not saying Hook is a “rapist” per se, but he did boast of having used the tactic of getting women intoxicated to have sex with him, which is what frat boys are known to do when they take advantage of intoxicated young women at parties. He’d also boasted of having had many a man’s wife, and that his crew had all ganged raped Milha (though that was untrue). That type of attitude is demeaning to women, which is just part of the entire rape culture. Hook’s behavior is problematic, because it endorses sex while under the influence of alcohol to a young audience of mostly women who’re already in love with Hook’s good looks and smooth-talking of the ladies. That is problematic, because they see Hook as being so hot that, there is no problem with him getting women so drunk that they wake up the next day in his bed, not recalling having given him any consent. A&E will never admit to doing that, just as they’ll never admit that Regina raped Graham, whose heart she controlled, but the show does implicitly (if not explicitly) endorse rape culture.
I know any debate on Hook is pointless in this thread but because of the point I was making, Hook had to be brought up in terms of fairness. I did not like how Hook tried to hit on Tinkerbell, and I’m kind of glad Hook is being puppeted by Rumple since Hook started it by trying to blackmail Rumple. I disagree about Hook promoting rape culture, at least from 3B onwards. There’s a difference between encouraging someone to engage in a certain activity and forcing someone to engage in a certain activity. Season 2 Hook I hated, 3A Hook I was very on the fence, I think it’s all up to interpretation really.
I have as many problems with Regina’s rape of Graham as I do of Hook using alcohol to get women drunk to have sex with him. Regina controlled Graham and made him do all sorts of things he didn’t want to do, namely be her sex slave. In SB, she also used his heart to make Graham murder Owen’s father the way Rumple is currently using Hook to suck up magical people into the sorcerer’s hat. So Regina, who’d taken away Graham’s real memories and removed his heart, was still capable of controlling Graham while in SB. I really dislike A&E for not admitting that Regina raped Graham. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s a woman raping a man or a man raping a woman, since rape is still rape, which is always morally wrong.
I agree. The writers really dropped the ball on that one.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThere’s a difference between encouraging someone to engage in a certain activity and forcing someone to engage in a certain activity.
When the person in question does not want to engage in that certain activity, then no….there is no difference. And THAT IS rape culture. It’s the idea that relentless pursuit of someone is “okay” because eventually they will “give in” to your charms and good looks. It doesn’t matter if they’ve resisted the whole time, “it was meant to be” because of the inevitability of the relationship, despite the protests of one of the parties.
THAT IS RAPE CULTURE. A lot of rape culture has NOTHING to do with actual forceable rape sex. It has to do with the treatment of women, victim blaming, and how men and women are presented in media and how we as a culture consume that media. The idea that a man can pursue a woman even when she keeps saying that she isn’t interested or is showing disinterest or even just uncertainty and eventually “get the girl” through that pursuit and not face any consequences for that pursuit and the woman is cast as “wrong” for “not seeing it all along!” THAT IS RAPE CULTURE.
You probably disagree. Fine. But please remember where you are and that these issues are 1) incredibly triggering for some of us and 2) about 95% of the people in this DO NOT like Hook and trying to dismiss something that we see as a valid criticism of his character in this “safe haven” as being “ridiculous” is not…it’s not fun for us.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Rape CULTURE =/= rape. It’s a thing I didn’t even know existed until relatively recently, or I should say, I didn’t know it had a name. The very culture whereby Hook declared he would “win” Emma’s heart *despite the fact that she wasn’t into it* and it was portrayed as romantic is where the issue lies.
I always go back to the example of when he looked through the pirate telescope at the family dinner at Granny’s. I watched that and said, aloud, “That’s stalkerish.” Other Roomie said, “Kinda creepy, kinda romantic…” NO. This culture has warped our views to the point that we (general viewership we) interpret that scene as, “Aw, he loves her so much and she doesn’t return his affections, poor guy,) when in fact it is NOT romantic. If, last week, any of us had looked out of our windows at Thanksgiving to find someone peering in with a telescope, we would have flipped our junk and called the cops. Right? I mean, if you’d looked out your window during your family holiday meal and seen it, would you have thought, “Oh, there’s ol’ Johnny, the grocery bagger who always flirts with me… he’s so sweet, he’s got such a crush on me, maybe I should date him after all,” or “There’s creepy Johnny, now he’s turned into a stalker and I am now freaking out and frightened. I really hope a visit from the local police gets him to quit.” Certainly, for me, it would be the latter.
It’s perpetuated in having Emma say lines like, “why don’t you curse the lips of someone I’d actually want to kiss,” and “I don’t trust you,” then having her “give in” in the VERY NEXT episode and start dating him. Just keep on keepin’ on boys, eventually she’ll see your charms and you’ll get the girl. NO. She.said.NO and he DID NOT LISTEN. THAT is rape culture.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
RG, slurpeez and DSB: PREACH!!! I really don’t even get how there’s so much of a debate about the topic, it seems pretty clear cut IMO. onceanfuturekiki on tumblr often responds to people with the best, most straight forward and in depth posts on the OUAT rape culture topic.
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