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Aw thanks RG–did you see Adam’s last tweet about hope?
I did. I think maybe he’s starting to realize that people are taking it the wrong way. That when he says “hope” people take it to mean “have hope for your ship to sail.”
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"PoM: that’s what Emma said but doesn’t mean the writers couldn’t add to it, since it was obviously a simplification as it left out her relationship with Neal. She wasn’t going to open up at that moment and say “A few years after the guy who was Henry’s father that I thought was the love of my life left me, I met this guy who [….]so after that one night stands are as far as I ever go.”
She never mentioned Neal then so stands to reason she could have left out other things. She still has not on screen told the story of how he left, and he has not fully explained his side either. He was sort of going into it but Emma cut him off and said it did not matter now in an angry “don’t want to hear it” way. She might be more willing to listen now that she knows he loved her along, and after seeing the long reach of “fate” that meddled in their lives. She did not still quite believe in “that stuff” at that point.
Substitute whatever tragic end to the potential in-between hypothetical relationship– he proposed and she said no, he turned out to be married, he played for the wrong team, whatever. She could have had a relationship that went bust in there and we never knew until it was relevant to the story.
Red: I hope it changes the flavor of the fandom a bit and calms down the people who keep trying to read into what Adam says in order to “prove” which way the writers are leaning on this Emma ship or in general other sub-plots. Probably not! But it is good to see Adam realizing how intently his words are taken.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
KFC, your last few posts were amazing! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. It really helps me out. 🙂
"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."I don’t have anything to add to the glorious things you’ve all written since I last visited here last night but I just wanted to tell you that y’all make me happy when you say all these awesome things!! 😀
Am I right that this is the week that the cast should be off for the holiday? I’m kind of hoping for a spoilers break for a while to keep me sane through my short work week (yay for Thanksgiving in the USA), LOL 😆
#MoreBOOMLessGloom
Holiday Cheer (Nealsnowman, Emma the Elf).
Phee and Molly–missed adding before but YES! I do want Hook to be redeemed, but also am disappointed at the lack of genuine development between Neal and Hook, based on history in NL (like how he knew Bae’s cave). That was the really interesting story, not two men being juvenile over a woman they both want. I do feel it is too soon to totally tame their antagonist characters because change should feel earned, but also that’s true that it helps keep conflict in the plot. Maybe that’s why we aren’t seeing more of the NL backstory as it becomes relevant in 309? It just feels they’ve got maybe 2 episodes left to get it out there, unless they’re going to be flashing back to NL in the second half the season. Just one more thing under the bumpy rug where stuff gets swept I suppose.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
If Hook and Regina can be declared totally redeemed now, is the show over? Where’s the dramatic tension in that? While I understand fans of Hook and Regina wanting the characters to be totally redeemed and good, right now, that doesn’t leave much more story to tell for either character and leaves the show without some darker catalysts for events.
I doubt that either will ever be 100% redeemed sweeties, because their darker sides are an integral part of who they’ve been for so long. Like any kind of addict giving up their vice, the experience of it and threat of them falling down again will always be lurking. I guess what we’re seeing with Hook right now is similar to what they did with Regina last season. Both of them started to show signs of improvement, but then something triggered them to regress. It’s believable, but frustrating.
Part of what had appealed to me about the potential of Hookriel was that that relationship could have helped him change. Falling for a mermaid, when he’s conditioned to hate and distrust them would have allowed some internal struggle, instead of being so black and white. And given that Ariel is more naive than any other woman he’s dealt with before, if he genuinely cared for her, he’d have been forced to look at how he treats people and dial back the secrets and lies and dishonourable intentions.
As things stand right now, he’s still stuck in the mindset of, “I want that woman and I’m gonna get that woman. (Even if her other potential suitor is a guy I once wanted to be my step-son, but nevermind if my actions end up hurting him again.)” I’m holding out hope that this is just one step in the process, and at some point he’s get a clue about what “good form” actually entails, and start striving for it.
We’ve been told, by Emma, that her life experiences included many people using her for their own reasons. She is in a vulnerable place right now, but it would be totally out of character for her to not ever see the superficial nature of Hook’s attention toward her. That’s one of the reasons that I don’t think there’s enough between them upon which to build an actual romantic relationship right now. Hook has to learn how to be a fully funtional adult who is capable of truly caring for others before he can be any kind of man for Emma, and by then both will have moved on. I can’t see Emma being satisfied with a superficial romance, not while juggling maternal responsibilities and learning how to be a cherished daughter.
Agreed with all of that!
Right now all Hook has with Emma is the sense of relating to her and she found him attractive enough to kiss the way they did.
Don’t remember if it was in here or on tumblr, but somewhere recently I saw a comment that Emma and Hook come from very different times. If you’re living with a 300 years in the past mentality, then a kiss probably has different expectations and significance put on it, as opposed to the significance that a modern day woman would put on it. Both of them are one night stand types though, so I dunno how drastically different their views on kissing would necessarily be, but I do still think it’s a valid point to consider, that back in ye olde times, people in general thought differently about relationships, which may be a contributing factor to Hook and Emma’s current situation where he’s reading more into things than she is.
I wonder if the writers might explore whether Emma really thinks the real world was nothing but cruel or is that as false as Neal thinking EF was nothing but bad. Another parallel for both I think is to evaluate the truth of their assessments of the worlds they are from.
What I’m enjoying is that in re-learning her own past, Emma’s also discovering Neal’s past too. When it’s revealed to them all that Pan, who held Neal captive in NL for centuries, is actually secretly his grandfather, who let him leave NL at a specific time (if that does prove true)…that’s a manipulation of Neal’s life that’s on par with how her own life has been manipulated…both of them being kids and not knowing the truth of their circumstances. He’s no longer, “The guy who helped wreck my life when (I thought) he callously screwed me over,” he’s now someone who was also a victim of having his life screwed over.
Between their experiences in our world, and their experiences in/connected to magical worlds, these two just have so much common ground to bond over. And outside of the two of them, we don’t know of any other characters who have that same experience. I know the term “soulmates” gets overused sometimes, but I’m just sayin’!!!
As things stand right now, he’s still stuck in the mindset of, “I want that woman and I’m gonna get that woman. (Even if her other potential suitor is a guy I once wanted to be my step-son, but nevermind if my actions end up hurting him again.)” I’m holding out hope that this is just one step in the process, and at some point he’s get a clue about what “good form” actually entails, and start striving for it.
And that mindset really works with your idea that Hook is a very obsessive guy.
And I think shows that really he’s just obsessed with the *idea* of Emma. A something to move on to after 300 years of Milah obsession. But it’s not really love.
Don’t remember if it was in here or on tumblr, but somewhere recently I saw a comment that Emma and Hook come from very different times. If you’re living with a 300 years in the past mentality, then a kiss probably has different expectations and significance put on it, as opposed to the significance that a modern day woman would put on it. Both of them are one night stand types though, so I dunno how drastically different their views on kissing would necessarily be, but I do still think it’s a valid point to consider, that back in ye olde times, people in general thought differently about relationships, which may be a contributing factor to Hook and Emma’s current situation where he’s reading more into things than she is.
Really good point. And again, Neal knows this world. He would know what Jello is.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It made start to wonder about Hook’s actions towards Bae. As a big Captainfire supporter I can’t see nor will ever see Hook redeemed in my eyes into he apologies and reconciles over an action he himself was solely responsible for when he abandoned Bae and gave him up to the Lost Boys.
Same. I was pretty disappointed with the CaptainFire stuff so far. I need those two to sit and talk.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"And that mindset really works with your idea that Hook is a very obsessive guy. And I think shows that really he’s just obsessed with the *idea* of Emma. A something to move on to after 300 years of Milah obsession. But it’s not really love.
The writers haven’t shown us much of what Milah and Hook’s actual relationship was like, so that’s quite possible. Regina says she doesn’t know how to love very well, and it may be true with Hook too that after he lost his brother Liam, that he loved in a very possessive way. Perhaps it plays into why Milah said she never loved Rumple, when we know she did at one point. That always struck me as odd. The other thing was that as she dies, Hook doesn’t say he loves her. He never says it that we see actually, because Hook refuses to divulge her existence, then she risks her life for him, we assume he loved her deeply. He was angry she was “taken from him”. Was their relationship about what was best for both or just him? Regina would die for Henry, but she would kill competition for his love too, and did not always love him the way he needed. Devotion is on a fine line with obsession.
Neal acknowledges that he does not own Emma, when he says Henry may be all that remains of their former relationship. He doesn’t say to Hook “I’ve got Emma now” but the reverse, telling Hook, that “She’s got me now” and that’s where Neal is. He’s given his love to Emma, his intention is to support her and he’s had his period of doubt and fear but he’s past that now.
Yes, it is a bit of a fairy-tale mentality, just like Snow, Charming, Belle and Rumple, to come out the other side of traumatic events and feel a new conviction about how much you love the one you almost lost, rather than thinking “oh there’s too much pain and sadness, better move on to someone else.”
There’s always pain and sadness in life. There’s always challenges and obstacles but you face them together if there’s love, so long as those challenges and obstacles aren’t a feature of the relationship dynamics itself.
If you want different things in life, if you don’t treat each other with respect and concern, then that’s where all those self-help type book things apply.
People keep trying to talk about Emma and Neal as if there’s something off in how they treat each other, now that there isn’t actual conflict between them of one of them being involved with another person. Even then, they approached that situation pretty sanely, aside from the bit where the woman turned out to be an evil schemer and Neal didn’t want to believe it. Who WOULD want to believe that, especially after the life he had led?
People try to argue that Neal doesn’t believe in Emma, and doesn’t support her, undermines her self-confidence, in short, that he brings her down, but I don’t see that. If anything he just always supported her to the extent he could curse aside, lets her take the lead, and followed her advice. He believes in her, and we see that now again in NL. When she calls him out about his immature behavior, he acknowledges it. He doesn’t side-step it, and while he’s making it clear he’s in it for the long-term with her, he’s also giving her space to work through her feelings without fear that it would affect his attitude towards Henry.
There is no pressure on her to be with him romantically at all in order to maintain his support for her and for her son. All he’s done is let her know (very subtlety) that he loves her. He didn’t even say it to her (even if that was the message he would have had Aurora give) because of how she expressed herself in the cage. He knew she didn’t want to hear that from him right then.
So instead, he spoke less about how he feels, and more about his intentions–he intends to fight for her. Not fight to win her or own her, but just to support her. He’s always been “just Neal” to her, and I think she’s always been “just Emma” to him. That’s the part of her he loves, while he admires all these other aspects of her too, they’ve caused problems (fairy tale problems) for them. So why shouldn’t they get to have a fairy tale solution to them?“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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