Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[heatherc1275]

They can say whatever they want on Twitter or in interviews but I still have faith that SwanFire is endgame. I honestly have no other reasons besides the ones mentioned all ready (all awesome ones) but I also have one of my own reasons….it just FEELS RIGHT. It just makes sense that these two broken people found each other, fell in love, went through a horrible rough time in the real world, and now need to find each other again in a whole new set of circumstances. I keep coming back to one of my favorite sayings: “If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it’s yours. If it doesn’t, it was never meant to be.” I personally think that the ‘coming back to you’ part has all ready happened with Emma finding Neal for Gold in NYC. She came back to him after he let her go. Now they just need to figure things out from there and really get to know each other again to find out if they have a future (of course, he has to get back to them from FT Land but that’s a whole separate issue, LOL).

BTW-I HATE shipping….hate it with a passion. I only use the SwanFire tag because that’s the couple I really hope to see at the end (and there’s no other way to put it ;)) but shipping in general just causes division within fanbases and it’s starting to happen with OUAT too. I went through ridiculous shipping wars with Lost and I am NOT liking that it’s happening again with one of my favorite shows. Can’t we all just get along?!??! LOL 😉

[kfchimera]

I fear too that the writers will change the story. But then again, I can see A&E thinking it is no fun if you think its too sure a thing so they almost have to tease things in the way they do. No one should be sure, that’s what they want, until the moment it happens. Then you’re not sure what you just saw!

Anyway, I am still often afraid of Tumblr, but occasionally I see something interesting, and saw this post on SwanFire from the writers and cast:

http://cassidyswan.tumblr.com/post/60021133316/pro-swan-thief-masterpost

I’ve seen a lot of people feeling down about Emma/Neal lately and what’s to come this season, so I decided to compile a list of quotes from the writers as well as Jen and Michael that will hopefully bring back some faith. Stay positive guys! 🙂 Special thanks to Aria and Ali for all of their help!

Feelings For Each Other

“I think what we love so much about Emma and Bae,is that they’re two people who grew up in similar ways without a family and with walls around their hearts and soI think they were each other’s loves and for us what’s interesting is why did they move on? What happened? And what happens nowand tomorrow’s definitely going to be a part of all that.”- Eddy

“We also see what Neal saw in August’s box, it was very simple and very elegant. So was it really fate that Emma and Neal met?” – Estelle
“Yeah.” – Adam
“Seems like it.” – Eddy
“Yeah, it is you know as kind of hinted that in the episode, there is an element to fate and destiny and that that is what we’re seeing transpired in these stories and we’ve seen characters who are fighting against and then coming to terms with those very issues.” – Adam (from the Manhattan podcast)

“Neal is always going to have feelings for Emma, no matter what. Those feelings can’t be put in a jar and set aside, you’re always carrying them with you. Neal is, anyway. As far as reconciliation between the two of them, there’s work that obviously needs to be done. In this week’s episode, you’re going to see them begin to scratch the surface of the unfinished business they have. Some of the things that haven’t yet been said we start to dance around.” – Michael

“It’s obvious she still holds a torch for Neal; it’s obvious that he still has feelings for her.” – Eddy

“Emma really doesn’t care about Neal’s fiancee or is she just hiding her jealousy behind that wall.”
”She looked to me like she cared a lot.” – Jane Espenson

“It’s sad because Emma loves Neal, but she’s never going to let her guard down again.” – Eddy (from he Queen is Dead podcast)

“Even though Emma’s saying she doesn’t care for him, you see that glimpse of, ‘Oh, I really don’t want to hear about this guy having someone he’s in love with.’” – Jennifer

“In the short-term, as glimpsed in these pics? A bit of side-by-side sword-brandishing. But as for them reconnecting in more intimate ways, “It’s hard for Emma,” says cocreator Eddy Kitsis. “Their dream was Tallahassee, to just go and get regular jobs — and now he’s doing that with [fiancée Tamara]. And since Emma’s the kind of character who has a wall up around her heart, I’m not sure she wants to admit it hurts her, but we’re definitely going to see that it does. And it affects him because we know that he didn’t want to leave her. He’s in love with her. What happened [in “Manhattan”] is a situation that neither of them ever thought would happen, so now what do you do? That’s what a lot of the rest of the season’s about.”- Ausiello

(about Rumbelle being the only couple to always be separated/other couples need to be separated too) “We’ve separated snow and charming multiple times. And Neal and Emma multiple times.” – Adam

“And he does of course love her.” – Eddy (from the Manhattan podcast)

“I think it is really sad, because we understand that Emma loves Neal, but she’s never going to let her guard down again. And what’s sad is that Neal clearly really loves Emma, but gave up on getting her back and that’s what’s the tragedy of their relationship, you know. They’re two people who were going to grow up without parents, that were trying to find their home together and what was so sad is that Emma realized that he did find it, but just not with her.” – Eddy (from The Queen Is Dead podcast)

Second Star To The Right

(about Emma saying “I love you” to Neal before he falls through the portal) “I wasn’t expecting it but I thought it was perfect. When the stakes are so high the truth tends to come out.” – Jennifer

“Bae really is a hero to me. He asked the blue fairy to help him save his dad, saved Wendy’s brothers from the shadow, left Emma for her destiny even when he loved her, and then he fought his fiance only to be sucked into another portal.” – Estelle
“And the more she tells Neal ‘It was ten years ago, I’ve moved on,’ we know she hasn’t, we know it’s hard for her to live Tallahassee with someone else. Neal has always regretted that day as he actually says out loud. So for us it’s how do two people who love each other come together when there’s so much hurt?” – Eddy (from the Second Star To The Right podcast)

“I think there’s no question that Emma is the absolutely love of Neal’s life. Whether or not that means anything is not for me to say. But when Neal lets her hand go, he knows he’s letting go of the woman he loves.” – Michael

“What was so heartbreaking about Tamara, he felt it was real, he thought he had found it, he had moved on, and I think secretly he’s always wanted to be with Emma, but never thought that was an option. I think he knew Emma well enough that it would be really hard to get her to forgive him. So he moved on, and then to find out that was wrong.” – Eddy (from the Second Star To The Right podcast)

“I am really secretly glad they finally admitted their love, even if it was like right before the moment he was ripped away.” – Estelle
“Seeing Emma say I love you to somebody is very powerful and to see that connection between the two of them was very powerful.” Eddy
“Even if it had to come at the most tragic moment in his life.” – Adam (from the Second Star To The Right podcast)

“So what’s your favorite scene from this episode?” – Estelle
“For me, it was watching Emma lose Neal. As heartbreaking as it is, it was so emotional, and so gut-wrenching, and they both played it so great, but to be at that moment that you can admit those feelings are still there, but then to lose the person you love, I mean there’s nothing that’s more heartbreaking than that.” – Adam (from the Second Star To The Right podcast)

Neal Isn’t Such A Bad Guy

(about Emma being underage when she and Neal were together/it being rape) “Your math is a bit off.” – Adam

(about Neal setting Emma up for jail) “He didn’t set her up for jail. That’s Not what happened” – Adam

“Neal never sent her to jail. Not what happened. And MRJ understands his character better than anyone.” – Adam

“Does Neal’s optimism play into his reluctance to see Tamara for who she really is?”
“Absolutely. It absolutely has to do with that. It also has to do with the eye sees what it wants to see. In this case, Neal is absolutely — he believes that there’s no way a second betrayal on the level of what happened with his dad could be on deck. He has been so completely fooled by — he can’t wrap his brain around that being a possibility. I think that sort of the eternal optimist, a street-wise optimist, but at the same time deeply wounded in things like love that he can’t — there’s no way it’s possible. It couldn’t happen again. That’s where Neal is coming from.” – Michael

“For us we loved that Neal came back for Emma. It showed his love for her.” – Eddy (from the Manhattan commentary)

“Whether he was protecting Emma’s destiny or not, do you think that Neal still harbors some guilt about what happened all those years ago?”
“I am glad you asked that. Yes. I think he does, but Neal feels that he really didn’t have a choice in the mater. It was a matter of her fulfilling her destiny and for the greater good. I mean, we’re talking about her saving a town full of people that I grew up with, people from Fairytale Land, so these aren’t total strangers where I can be like, “Screw them. This is about me and my love.”So, in Neal’s mind he was sort of jumping on the grenade for the greater good. But of course there’s guilt. Of course there’s pain for having inflicted pain on someone you care about. I don’t know how you get beyond that.” – Michael

“When you really love somebody, you just want to be with them. And to have to deny that is hard to yourself, and it’s also hard because he knew he was going to break her heart. So the fact that he would add to the pain that he was trying to take away is really hard to live with. He understands that this destiny is important for her, and he can’t be in the way, and that is, that is really a self sacrifice that I think he regrets everyday.” – Adam and Eddy

Kindred Spirits

“They were definitely kindred spirits. There was a reason that she was so drawn to him and him to her. They had to survive to make life OK. There’s an interesting parallel for them that they both are on their own in this world and have had to find inventive ways to make life OK.” – Jennifer

“She’s actually met a kindred spirit because he’s also stealing the car. What they knew at a young age, was the simple things were the important things. Being with each other, being in love, and finding a place to be together. They just wanted to love their lives and find a family, and wanted to be together.” – Adam (from The Price Of Magic special)

“He meets Emma, and here’s this kindred spirit, looking for the same sort of things. We fall deeply in love, and I start to scratch that itch again for the first time in a hundred years, at least.” – Michael

How The Cast Feels About Emma and Neal

“Emma has to end up with Henry’s real dad.” – Jared

“Snow likes her with Bae because snow’s experiences with Hook have not thus far instilled trust.” – Ginny

(about which couple she likes besides Rumbelle) “Emma and Neal” – Emilie

“Well my sister ships #SwanThief but I am good with however it works out, although I do think my dad is pretty cool.” – Jared

(about who he ships Emma with) “Maybe #swanthief he likes Neal” – Josh

“I love Emma and Bae.” – Ginny

Going Into Season 3

“I did not promote a triangle at CC. I can’t control questions asked. But I didn’t spoil anything.” – Adam

(about promoting Hook/Emma) “When? Not true. We have spoiled nothing about hook and Emma or Emma and anyone.” – Adam

(about promoting Hook/Emma and not giving hope to Emma/Neal fans) “Not what we said! Emma may be w/hook on boat but that has no reflection on possibility of ending up with Neal or someone else!” – Adam

(about Adam only being concerned about Hook/Emma fans and not other fans) “I want swanfire fans happy too!” – Adam

“Emma is not on the Jolly Roger thinking about romance. She’s not. She’s there to save her son.” – Jennifer (SDCC 2013)

(about a possible Mulan/Neal pairing) “Watch it! That’s my baby’s daddy your’e talking about!” – Jennifer

“It’s fun for us to have Emma on that ship with someone as handsome as Hook thinking the person she truly loves is dead, while he’s trying to get back to her.” – Eddy

“The last thing I saw Neal do was look up at the woman he’s loved for ten years and say ‘I love you too’, and right now, I mean, I can’t imagine he doesn’t want to get back to her and his son.” – Adam

“Neal’s gonna attempt at least to move heaven and hell and if there’s a captain in the way as well, so be it.” – Michael

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

I saw that tweet and I had to take a deep breath. First, I get annoyed at the collapsing of a complex situation to “he hurt her”. Then I hate the “as a woman” she should know better than to take him back.” Does that mean it is ok for Charming as a man to take back Snow who broke his heart and forgot him? Really, most people were ok with it because gender aside, Snowing both LOVED each other still, and realized that Snow had hurt him only because she was forced into it, and then couldn’t handle the pain so she took a potion to deal with it. Snow had magic, Neal didn’t. 11 years later after waiting for Emma he met a conniving woman who preyed on all his insecurities and fears and he thought he should do the equivalent of a magic potion and try to move on with another.

PREACH!

Honestly, it makes me so angry when people tear apart Neal for having been horrible to Emma, and meanwhile they completely excuse or romanticise things that Hook has done to her. I love Hook, he’s one of my fave characters, but he’s done some douche things to multiple people, including Emma. He left her to rot and die in Rumple’s cell for crying out loud. In a cell in an abandoned land, with no food or hope of escape. But Neal leaving Emma to give her her best chance of getting back to her family, and her ending up in jail in the modern world where she was clothed, fed, and would only be there temporarily before being set free again, oh no, THAT’S unforgivable!

I just…I don’t understand the double standard that some people have when it comes to things like this, and it’s not just the jail cell comparison, I’m just using that as an example here. BOTH of those situations, with BOTH guys, HURT Emma in different ways. You can’t classify everything Neal has done to hurt her as EVIL, and at the same time look at everything Hook has done to hurt her and declare it LOVE. The history and relationships she has with BOTH of them are complex, and when someone tries to just simplify it to one of them having been all bad for her and the other being all good, they are really missing the point and ignoring the layers that make the story so interesting.

If people wanna ship CS, that’s fine, they can ship CS. But when the love of your ship makes you so completely one eyed that you end up actually publicly hating and insulting anyone that might get in the way, that’s just poor form!

I feel like a woman or man is not made stronger by lacking compassion and love. Love is strength, and Emma is strong. IF she forgives Neal, he will have earned that forgiveness by his actions within the story, and they don’t want to spoil what those things are.

THIS! Honestly, if she has the love, compassion, and understanding to forgive her parents for sending her away as a newborn, if she can not completely write off August for how he left her, if she can keep wanting to give Regina chances instead of just shutting her out of Henry’s life whenever she does something dangerous, if she can still feel it worthwhile to appeal to Hook’s compassionate and caring side that she knows is buried in there somewhere even though he’s outwardly selfish and untrustworthy, there is absolutely no reason why she won’t be able to forgive and understand Neal as well as they work through their issues, and she has her questions answered and has a proper understanding of their situation.

Adam is pretty sensitive it seems to accusations about his open mindness and misogyny, and the last thing I want him to think is they have to drop the Neal storyline because the public would never accept Emma going back to him. In fact, I think it’s horrible that people think its ok if Snow treats Charming like dirt but not if the other way around. People should be good to each other and the gender ought to have nothing to do with it. Maybe I will tweet that later.

I feel so bad for Adam when people attack him and call him names. It doesn’t necessarily help when he responds to it, but it’s totally understandable why he does. Right now I’m feeling the urge to spam tweet him a thesis on all the beautiful things I see in SF’s story, so he knows that there are people out there who see it, and get it.

One of my biggest peeves is when people try to make the other one look like a martyr.
“Hook belongs with Emma because Neal did X Y Z”
“Neal belongs with Emma because Hook did A B C”

Agreed, because neither guy has been a freaking saint! And nor should they, or anyone else on the show be saints, because it’s everyone’s flaws and struggles that make for an interesting story.

He made an impossible choice for the betterment of thousands and, yes, to EMMA herself. Is there a lot of forgive? Of course! But in what relationship isn’t there a lot to forgive? Rumple threw Belle out of his castle! Snow took a potion and forgot Charming! David Nolan thought Mary Margaret killed Katheryn! MM slept with Whale! Relationships are not easy. “If true love were easy, everyone would have it.”

THIS! Seriously, people act like Neal is the freaking anti-Christ and because of that there’s no potential for the relationship, but look at the other imperfect relationships they’ve written between imperfect people, and look at how they overcame because of love!

Just because people are the loudest, doesn’t make them the majority. This is what I have kept telling myself:
Over 11 million people watch Once Upon a Time. (Right? #s from last season?)
a few of the SAME people stating their opinion over and over and over on twitter is just a super small fraction of that number. What, 10 people harassing him over and over again? I know that Adam and Eddy see the big picture. They have to. They’ve been doing this long before people had the gall to harass them on twitter (and as Adam confessed tonight, THREATEN his family). They did this before they got harassed. Before the internet made everyone crazy and self-important.
I have to have faith they can keep their head up and tell their story.
*sigh*

This is what I believe. K&H briefly considered changing their story because people had guessed about Nealfire, but they ultimately decided that this was the story they’d planned, and this was the story they were gonna tell. They’ve had this story planned out for YEARS, they know how they want it to play out, and while some things may need to be changed along the way, I think that something a major as the endgame for the hero of their story is something they won’t waver on. So I’m hopeful that whatever happens, it’s not being influenced one way or the other by the vocal minority.

[Josephine]

These past few days have just stunk for my ships.   Next think you know, they’ll be saying that Marian is alive and living in Storybrooke with Robin Hood. 😛

 

 

Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.

[Phee]

I just tweeted this to Adam:

I feel like tweeting you a thesis about everything that’s beautiful & complex about SwanFire, past, present & (potentially) future. The love they built, the heartbreak they’ve been through & the power of forgiveness & underestanding. But I know I wouldn’t be telling you anything you don’t already know, because you’ve already shown us complex, layered stories about differnt types of love, how it’s built, how it can be torn apart & how it can be put back together. That hope is one of the core themes of your show & I look forward to seeing you continue telling your story the way you envision it, because so far, your vision has been rather wonderful.

[kfchimera]

Nice Phee! Much as I love SF, what I love more is their storytelling in the universe they created.
If they just cave in to one set of loud fans, they’re likely to upset another set of loud fans. Jane Epenson has said somewhere you have to give fans what they need, not what they want. I think as writers, they are smart enough also to realize how our perceptions are manipulated too by the things they show us and when.

It’s still nice though to feel like our perspective as fans who generally like the show gets heard once in awhile above all the complainers.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

i agree with everything you guys said. We’ll just have to wait and see. There is a lot of story to tell.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Phee]

There is a lot of story to tell.

Indeed. And on both sides of the “triangle”. Nothing is gonna be resolved either way in the immediate future. They’re gonna tear everyone apart with conflicting FEELS for a while yet.

[RumplesGirl]

I just hope the triangle is resolved for good by the end of S3. I think two seasons of it would make my head hurt.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Phee]

We just need Emma to get herself put under a sleeping curse. TLK never lies, and is the only way to resolve the triangle. 😉

Seriously though, I’m cautiously optimistic that the storyline won’t suck, be boring, or too drawn out. Once all 3 of them are back in the same world, and Hook sees that Neal and Emma still love each other, I don’t imagine there being a whole lot of spiteful, fighting, triangle-ish stuff. Hook will be trying to repair his own relationship with Neal as well, which will impact his actions. I think they’ll all be mature enough to let everything work out, and I don’t think Hook and Emma’s relationship will be the type of situation where they’ve declared undying love for each other or anything, so they’ll be able to adjust just fine while still maintaining their friendship. That’s what I’m hoping for, anyway.

[Author]

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