Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[Cinders]

I actually liked the Dreamshade storyline. We know Charming won’t die, but it tied into Hook’s backstory. I go with the flow if the writers.  And regarding peter being Bae’s grand father, they tweeted each other this morning but I don’t know how to post it. Grandpa? From Bae.  Grandson?! From Robbie.

[kfchimera]

Yes Cinders, BAE is Pan’s grandson.  The article said HENRY was.  This would mean Rumple and Emma had a hook up, not Emma and Neal.  That was what I meant by the article was off, and “GoldenSwan” was a joke (though some people did ship in S1).

I think the tie to Hook’s past still doesn’t undo the sense that Charming’s story was essentially meaningless.  Charming thought he’d die for a bit, didn’t tell his family, but when he told them, it only lasted an episode or so of fall-out.   It’s like the whole Katherine thing, in the end, it didn’t even matter, all was forgiven and they go right back to skipping down the lane, holding hands.

In any case, the Hook story itself was bad for Hook too.  We learned nothing about the things we already wondered about, such as his deals with Pans, interactions with Tink, or most of all, history with Bae.  Instead, we learn about a brother never hinted about before, and the brother dies.  So while that was Hook’s motivation for losing hope and turning Pirate, it also felt meaningless in the grand scheme unless we revisit this King, and his legacy.  All we know is, Hook didn’t become a pirate because he was forced to be one, but because he couldn’t handle his anger and sadness over his brother’s death, and his sense of betrayal by the King for telling them they were seeking a healing plant, when they were after a weapon.   Of course, maybe the King was deceived, but Hook never questioned it.

It does tie into how Hook gets so angry at Emma that he goes back to helping Cora, after Emma left him behind, and it might explain Emma’s reluctance to be too harsh in shutting Hook down.  The guy does not take rejection or betrayal terribly well.  He acts out but demands and expects others to trust him despite his bad actions, which reminds me a LOT of how Regina is.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

I actually liked the Dreamshade storyline. We know Charming won’t die, but it tied into Hook’s backstory. I go with the flow if the writers. And regarding peter being Bae’s grand father, they tweeted each other this morning but I don’t know how to post it. Grandpa? From Bae. Grandson?! From Robbie.

My main problem with the Dreamshade arc was that it did not serve the character it was intended to serve–Charming. It served another; Charming did not actually advance in his characterization and he basically was a plot device to get two people from point A to point B.

But KFC laid it out better than I could, so I’ll just refer back to her post.

Instead, we learn about a brother never hinted about before, and the brother dies.

This is something that has bugged me for awhile, so I’ll ask my shipmates first: did Hook lie to Bae in 222? About PapaHook? Because Killian Jones grew up well adjusted and hopeful and I was a big advocate of “oh I’m sure he’s not lying about PapaHook…” but after 305, I’m not sure anymore.

Also, all of our previous villains, Rumple, Regina, and Cora, had things done TO them that made them who they were:

Rumple–father issues and wife issues and being infected by DO curse.

Regina–emotionally and mentally abused by mother

Cora–daughter of drunkard and forced to kneel (Cora’s story isn’t quite as sad, I know)

But with Hook, nothing happened directly TO him. His brothers death wasn’t powerful enough, to me, to have a man suddenly give up his entire way of life. How was it the loss of hope? It meant his king had lied, but was it enough to make him jump from point A to point X? It is just something that bothers me, I guess. Hook could have sailed for a different king, or left the navy and gone and done something else. But he chose to become pirate.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Ranisha Pitts]

I agree it does seem Hook does not take rejection or betrayal well at all as we seen in Dark Hallow and Think Lovely thoughts. For me the dreamshade was just a plot ploy to build up the CS kiss. CS kiss shouldn’t need a parent nearly dieing for it to occur.

Yes A&E said that MRJ knew his character better than anyone, so I wonder if it stands that Emma is it for him.

"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."

[Phee]

This is something that has bugged me for awhile, so I’ll ask my shipmates first: did Hook lie to Bae in 222? About PapaHook? Because Killian Jones grew up well adjusted and hopeful and I was a big advocate of “oh I’m sure he’s not lying about PapaHook…” but after 305, I’m not sure anymore.

I’ve never been convinced that he was telling the truth to Bae about his own father. Having seen part of his backstory now, I do lean more heavily on the side that he was lying, though we can’t really say 100% for sure. Maybe all 3 of them, Killian, Liam, and their father, went off to sail the seas, and their father abandoned them both, it’s just that Hook didn’t mention the bit about his brother. So even if it wasn’t a complete lie, it was still at best a half truth, because he was playing up the, “My dad left and I was all alone in the world, just like you,” but we now know that he always had Liam.

But with Hook, nothing happened directly TO him. His brothers death wasn’t powerful enough, to me, to have a man suddenly give up his entire way of life. How was it the loss of hope? It meant his king had lied, but was it enough to make him jump from point A to point X? It is just something that bothers me, I guess. Hook could have sailed for a different king, or left the navy and gone and done something else. But he chose to become pirate.

I can buy the sudden change because Liam was the only family he had and he suddenly lost him. He was angry at the King for having sent them to NL based on a lie, angry at Liam for having been stubborn and stupid enough to cut himself with the dreamshade, and thanks to Pan’s, “Well, you totes goaded him into doing that,” he was also angry at himself, and also angry at Pan for not having divulged all the necessary information about the cure. So that’s a fair amount of anger to boil over and make him snap like he did.

[RumplesGirl]

I’m not trying to downplay the loss of Liam to Killian (though I wasn’t particularly moved by it), it just seems that afterward Killian had more options and chose to take the worst path he could think of. Especially for someone so well adjusted.

Now I wanna ask Adam if PapaHook really did leave little Hook. But I fear the wrath of CSers seeing my tweets.

Anyway. Happy Saturday

One day left!

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

You should ask that RG. I thought it was a little convenient that Hook’s tragic backstory just so happened to mirror Bae’s perfectly

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

You should ask that RG. I thought it was a little convenient that Hook’s tragic backstory just so happened to mirror Bae’s perfectly

Well and the scene right before that talk between the two, Hook tells Smee that he is going to use Bae to get information about the Dark One. It was very convenient….

Mabye I’ll ask. I just have a lot of CSers who follow me on Twitter and I don’t want to start something

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

The thing is though, Hook isn’t a saint, he has done some terrible things (Like trying to kill Belle repeatedly)so lying to a child, especially one who could lead to Hook getting what he wants, isn’t beyond Hook’s capabilities.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Ranisha Pitts]

I would have thought Hook would have become more of rebel or Robinhood or V for Vendetta type character, why did he become cruel because his interactions with Rumple before he was Dark One was very cruel. And when he thought Rumple was beggar he was cruel to the beggar.

"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."

[Author]

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