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Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Character discussion › Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

  • This topic has 25,813 replies, 124 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 11 months ago by RumplesGirl.
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  • May 15, 2015 at 7:15 pm #304896
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    (thanks for a great recommendation)

    You’re welcome. We’ll discuss when you’re done 🙂

    I am 1000% percent sure that Hook’s kiss will break her curse. It would be more circular and appropriate for Henry to kiss Emma but it will never happen.

    Basically yes. We get theories wrong all the time, but the writing is on the wall with this one.

    [adrotate group="5"]

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    May 15, 2015 at 7:25 pm #304897
    WickedRegal
    Participant
    Josephine wrote:

    I’ve noticed something lately. Most of the people I follow on tumblr are Rumbellers, but I notice more and more are posting vocally anti-CS and anti-Hook things. In the past they just kept quiet and stayed in the “Rumbelle bubble” but it’s creeping out more and more. People I’ve never seen talk about Hook are now reblogging Hook hate. It’s very interesting.

    I’m not surprised at this to be honest. I think the problem is they show Hook being deliberately antagonistic towards Rumple for no other reason than he can, and then show him being all sweetness and light towards Emma. It’s like a whiplash effect. What they’re telling us about Hook (that he’s redeemed, he’s a hero, etc) does not match up with what they’re showing us onscreen (that he has bully boy tendencies and has a very unsavoury side of him). This darker side of Hook is not explored or acknowledged by the writers or the other characters and it makes Hook look a little Jekyll and Hyde.

    Quote

    Hook is quite twofaced…around the Charmings, he’s this innocent saint but around Rumple and Will, his true darker colors surface.

    Hook can get run over by a truck, brush himself and walkaway….Rumple however gets run over by a truck, and he’s deader than a duck. Examples of this show in the blackmail….Everyone knows Rumple tried to blackmail Hook, but no one knows Hook tried to blackmail Rumple first, and more than likely never will!

    Yeah…CS will get their TLK to break Emma’s DO Curse….I’m still in utter shock/disgust/horror that this is the direction they’re more than likely going, like @JO said…they’re basically stealing Beauty and the Beast ending and giving it to CS……seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    "If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

    May 15, 2015 at 7:49 pm #304899
    Ranisha Pitts
    Participant

    I’ll be watching Game of Silence because look at this cast…

    This is one exceptional cast. #GameOfSilence pic.twitter.com/9wqDwRseKc

    — Game of Silence (@NBCSilence) May 15, 2015

    But yeah Dark Swan is just a set up for CS true love kiss its expected, shippers want it, they will get it.

    And that is another reason Dark Swan doesn’t seem highly interested and very anticlimatic. Its basically predictive repetitive cookie cutter plot device dot dot dot dot right to CS true love kiss.

    If I am wrong about the  CS True Love kiss and the writers were able to pull a  clever twist ending to  this dark one curse. I would be the first to eat crow and declare them as geniuses for successful pulling a fast one on us…..

    And Im pretty sure I’m not eating crow.

    "I will be kind but I will speak my mind."

    May 15, 2015 at 9:07 pm #304902
    nevermore
    Participant

    Yeah…CS will get their TLK to break Emma’s DO Curse….I’m still in utter shock/disgust/horror that this is the direction they’re more than likely going, like @JO said…they’re basically stealing Beauty and the Beast ending and giving it to CS……seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So I think it’s safe to say they won’t do BB, and they won’t do TL as familial love either. But there’s the third option — there’s something to be said about Emma’s own capacity to overcome the curse. So maybe rather than TL swooping down in the form of Hook, there’s something to be said for a narrative of Emma’s own potential for loving others as a way for her to reclaim her self from the darkness.

    But sadly, I think you all are right — they won’t do that either, and we’ll have CS as the love to end all loves. But I’m not quite sure why, honestly, other than some kind of retrograde necessity to have the distressed damsel at the center of the plot, and being enamored with Hook’s character.

    So, basically Emma will probably be super duper dark, Hook decides he doesn’t care, if she’s going to destroy the world or whatever he’ll die alongside her (cause Jane Espenson is still on the writing staff and “yellow crayon”–)

    Aww, I remember that! But wait, this is a totally different deal. It’s been a while, but isn’t this Dark!Willow/Xander, who essentially go way back to kindergarden? This is really not the kind of “tall/dark/handsome” walking cliche romance that CS tends towards. I mean, do Hook and Emma even have anything in common, besides a love of leather jackets?

    On a different note, Hook produces so much cognitive dissonance! He’s a bit of a bully (as @PriceofMagic mentioned.) Except when it suits him, he dons his little nimbus, and it’s all rainbows an unicorns. Maybe there are different writers with different levels of affection towards the character, and you have a couple who sort of try to bring him down a notch whenever they have a go at it?

    I agree that he’s supposed to be the handsome rogue, but wouldn’t that still require some kind of character motivation apart from being Emma’s main love interest? Instead, when he’s not antagonizing Rumple or Will, he just seems to hang around creepily in the background. Right not, Hook’s a bit of a cypher, and I wonder if that’s intentional or just shoddy writing.

     

    May 15, 2015 at 9:40 pm #304904
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    Aww, I remember that! But wait, this is a totally different deal. It’s been a while, but isn’t this Dark!Willow/Xander, who essentially go way back to kindergarden? This is really not the kind of “tall/dark/handsome” walking cliche romance that CS tends towards. I mean, do Hook and Emma even have anything in common, besides a love of leather jackets?

    It’s different situation but the emotion behind is the same: if you’re dying or are going to destroy the world, then I’m going with you. With Emma and Hook it’s horrible and cliche and only serves to make Hook look good and Emma look weak. With Xander and Dark!Willow it was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.

     

     

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    May 15, 2015 at 10:04 pm #304906
    nevermore
    Participant

    It’s different situation but the emotion behind is the same: if you’re dying or are going to destroy the world, then I’m going with you. With Emma and Hook it’s horrible and cliche and only serves to make Hook look good and Emma look weak. With Xander and Dark!Willow it was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.

    Totally, but that sort of emotion would only work because of the characters’ incredibly rich history together. Without that depth (and I think CS doesn’t have that depth at all), you get something that just comes across as petulant and overblown.

    May 15, 2015 at 10:22 pm #304907
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster
    RumplesGirl wrote:

    It’s different situation but the emotion behind is the same: if you’re dying or are going to destroy the world, then I’m going with you. With Emma and Hook it’s horrible and cliche and only serves to make Hook look good and Emma look weak. With Xander and Dark!Willow it was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.

    Totally, but that sort of emotion would only work because of the characters’ incredibly rich history together. Without that depth (and I think CS doesn’t have that depth at all), you get something that just comes across as petulant and overblown.

    Quote

    Very true. Though, it doesn’t take much to get me to see CS as cheap and shallow.

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    May 15, 2015 at 10:30 pm #304908
    nevermore
    Participant

    Very true. Though, it doesn’t take much to get me to see CS as cheap and shallow.

    Sigh. You and me both. Then again, badly written romance is badly written.

    May 15, 2015 at 11:07 pm #304909
    RumplesGirl
    Keymaster

    I hated 3B more, but good points over all

    "He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
    May 16, 2015 at 12:34 am #304910
    kfchimera
    Participant

    Well, I have much to catch up on.  thank you Ranisha for the Mother Day wishes, and Happy Belated a Birthday to Wicked Regal!

    I am working my way through the finale but got stuck on the notion the author just rewrote the reality of the so-called Real World without magic.  More like the realm without much belief in magic, because when the plot requires it, magic works there unless they require it not to work.  Anyway, he somehow had his book printed, published distributed, &read by legions of fans, in what appeared to be a few hours at most.  So any nonsense about Neal’s death being irreversible because it happened outside of a magical realm is just that, nonsense.  It happened inside an active magical pocket town inside a realm where some magical things and beings can go, when the plot says so.  It happened for magical reasons too, a price for the  resurrection of a supposedly immortal creature.  It was not say, Neal getting caught in NY in a gun fight or something like that.  That said, I liked the notion that Henry was resisting the temptation to abuse power to get his  happy ending not that he technically could not do it.   That is the kind of hard choice a hero makes, to sacrifice short term happiness for the bigger picture.

    This is what was missing when Emma and Rumple passed on changing history to save Neal.  Emma sounded like it was a moral choice not to mess with fate but then she turned around and messed with the history of the stranger in the cell next door.  Rumple put the problem all on Emma, selfishly retreating to that space of it is not my immediate concern, so long as the timeline works that I get forgiven by my son, who cares if the details change slightly.  It was not for either of them presented as this hard call, that they were both really tempted but in the end knew honoring what Neal would want, what his values were, that he would not want them to bring him back if it meant hurting others to do it, but there was no clear line with time travel that others had to be hurt per se.  It was not like Neal died as a catalyst to some magical protection spell.  It was just about information.

    Anyway, the writers wanted the character out of the story and that is really all there was to it, but they butchered how they got there.  So their efforts now to actually hang some meaning on it for Henry feels a little shallow given how little time they spent showing Henry grieving and remembering Neal, versus playing cheerleader for Regina no matter what it took.  Henry was more than happy to look for the author in the hope that  it could put Regina on a road to happiness, never a suggestion that he was not totally content and hopeful that the search might get Neal back.   The writers just claim these things are explored off screen, and jump to emotional moments they do not earn.

    Speaking of that, it could be that breaking the Dark One curse will be a big CS moment but I would not rule out it being a big Saviour Queen (SQ  galore Subtext ) moment either.  Regina is the reason Emma took action the way she did, when she did, and the writers love to write Regina saving the day.  They can always follow it up with a long CS kiss and wedding to soothe the shippers, and then say look, friendship and family saved the day!

    My big hope really is the writers remember this show works best when it is not Once Upon a Woobie Villain, or Once upon a Ship.  Stop stuffing things under the rug of unrealistic character reactions just to keep the protagonists on the same side. That  robs the story of natural conflict.  The writers then introduce silly contrived conflict starters, like magical curses or whatever and the result is characters that seem cartoonishly ok with some pretty weird fallout, like everyone giving up on the EF for SB or choosing Regina over Snow for Mayor, or what was said during shattered sight or other things.  Let some consequences linger, create tension that arises not from yet another disposable guest star villain but from the conflicting moral views  of some of these characters and the choices they make.  Then again what would we mock if this show stopped doing its plot, plot TWISt thing?

    Anyway, happy hiatus …

    “If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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