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t makes me think that what we need is a thread where it is ok to actually be critical of Hook because it feels like there’s a bit of a gag order (imposed and policed by certain people who flip out if you dare suggest anything bad about him, but also get up in arms if you suggest that maybe those he’s in conflict with aren’t the worst of the worst and totally deserving of every bad thing happening to them, but most of all that he did to them.
lol. That’s actually amusing, in a sad sort of way (about the gag order bit). Sadly, though, I don’t think such a thread is possible, unless it has a very boring title that has nothing to do with Hook at all. Maybe it could start as a discussion of a ship that never even made it to the docks — like Grumpy and that pink fairy, remember, from S1? Surely, no one will have particularly strong feelings about that one, and hence won’t click. Right?
On a serious note, I think this particular thread has sort of become the grab-bag for all OUAT “dissenters” — not only people who are Swanfire shippers, but anyone who is articulating a critique of the show. The treatment of Neal is the center of gravity around which most of these critiques rotate, because it’s so damn symptomatic of everything that has gone wrong with OUAT and has made a show that is obviously beloved by many so distressingly irritating.
I personally appreciate the “safe space.” My limited experience of CSers (I don’t know if SQ is similar) is that they tend towards a “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” online presence, while simultaneously feeling victimized by all the “minority” ships. *Sigh*
I honestly do not expect the writing to suddenly improve just because they have one new, inexperienced voice on the team for next season–but I can’t help but feel Vasquez leaving is still a good sign, because between her writing the Hook backstory graphic novel and the episodes she’s done and things she’s said in interviews, I’m feeling a bit hopeful that the writers might be gearing up for another change, some kind of “reset” to where the story went in the last season.
Ah! That’s fascinating. I was wondering this exact thing, i.e. whether there was a couple of writers who were super pro-Hook. Mystery solved! Of course, her leaving isn’t necessarily a sign that things will suddenly improve. I’m sure they have a party line. Although I also have the impression that the right hand doesn’t always know what the left one is up to.
[adrotate group="5"]Soooo….at Spooky Con….some fans actually stalked Lana Parrilla into the bathroom and asked her to sign photoshopped inappropriate pictures, and questioning her on her personal things. And practically stalked her the entire trip at Spooky Con…..if she starts declining to go to these events, the bad apples in the bunch are to blame.
This fandom is becoming slowly more toxic….it’s almost like they can’t separate a character from a real life person with real feelings….evidence of this is the huge Michael Raymond James bashing, simply because his character was a love interest for Emma which is also the same thing now happening to Sean Maguire concerning OutlawQueen. The bashing Ginnifer Goodwin got when she tried to point out how weird SwanQueen was because it was borderline incest. JMo has had it done to her….and now people are literally stalking Lana….what more can this fandom do to this cast is beyond me?
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
On a serious note, I think this particular thread has sort of become the grab-bag for all OUAT “dissenters” — not only people who are Swanfire shippers, but anyone who is articulating a critique of the show.
Which of course we aren’t supposed to do because “it’s just a TV show” and we’re supposed to just “sit back and enjoy the ride.” Cause media isn’t worthy of being critiqued!? Because it makes them uncomfortable to admit that their favorite show/character has some very serious problems and therefore let’s IGNORE THEM
(sigh. I’m in a bad mood tonight)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Soooo….at Spooky Con….some fans actually stalked Lana Parrilla into the bathroom and asked her to sign photoshopped inappropriate pictures, and questioning her on her personal things. And practically stalked her the entire trip at Spooky Con…..if she starts declining to go to these events, the bad apples in the bunch are to blame.
I. CANNOT. EVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the actual fudge is wrong with some folks???!!! >__< that really makes me so flipping angry.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICOn a serious note, I think this particular thread has sort of become the grab-bag for all OUAT “dissenters” — not only people who are Swanfire shippers, but anyone who is articulating a critique of the show.
Which of course we aren’t supposed to do because “it’s just a TV show” and we’re supposed to just “sit back and enjoy the ride.” Cause media isn’t worthy of being critiqued!? Because it makes them uncomfortable to admit that their favorite show/character has some very serious problems and therefore let’s IGNORE THEM (sigh. I’m in a bad mood tonight)
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Which of course we aren’t supposed to do because “it’s just a TV show” and we’re supposed to just “sit back and enjoy the ride.” Cause media isn’t worthy of being critiqued!? Because it makes them uncomfortable to admit that their favorite show/character has some very serious problems and therefore let’s IGNORE THEM (sigh. I’m in a bad mood tonight)
This. Don’t you just hate it when you’re told to ‘sit back and enjoy the ride?’ It’s like the kissing cousin of “don’t you worry your pretty little head about it.” The thing that annoys me with OUAT and its fandom (present company excluded) is precisely the fact that any “issue” with the show, be it consent, problematic characterization, morality, double standards, race/gender/class… whatever, is never addressed by the show itself, but is instead left to be an actively divisive question that gets the fandom growling at each other, and whenever the show runners get confronted with it, they try to either deny it was their intent, or bicker about definitions.
Watching and following OUAT is like being in a relationship with a manipulative sociopath.
And that is why I appreciate Game of Thrones. Sure, it’s got issues in spades, but it’s actually honest about them.
Goodness, people are touchy, since I expressly said I get why we need this as a safe space and was not asking for a new thread, and I went one better on saying we need this not just to critique Hook, but also to say good things about or defend characters that have conflicts with Hook….because if we try to do those things out of this space, it upsets certain people, but…all the same, Neal though …everything Watcher linked in those gifsets. Just more of that please to break up the venting.
I liked that complicated story of Neal and maybe I would like the complicated stories of Emma and her new awesome friends and boyfriend more if the writers would spend time acknowledging the various elephants in the room rather than writing around it. They addressed it with Neal, and for me it was never just a matter of biology but their continued feeling s for each other despite the separation that made me root for them.
I made the mistake of looking at an interview about Grimm, and maybe all show runners are just tone deaf, but there was a quote about how Nick and Adalind have to at least try to be attracted to each other. If you watch it , you know because it is basically a Zelena and Robin story…Adalind is having Nick’s baby after pretending to be the woman he loved. I throw my hands up with Grimm, but at least Neal did not get gutted like Juliette did, or say Katrina Crane On Sleepy Hollow.
Far be it from me to put out sunshine and roses vibes about this writing team, but compared to all that, I am ok with Neal going out a hero, someone who helped inspire Emma in many ways and loved Henry and was loved enough by Henry that Henry was tempted to use magic to save him. It seriously could be worse, because just look at Snow and Charming or what is left of them.
Then as Wicked Regal noted, fans of this show have some creepy moments, and I know it has impacted the actors and if MRJ never wants to return, would not blame him. It does make me wonder a bit though if the writers are a touch scared to alter the status quo, and the unevenness in the writing is sort of their attempt to try to keep the most rabid sectors at bay? Maybe their hands are too tied to really do more than sketch the interactions, so they focus on plot and leave it to fans to fill in the rest since they do any way. If you are not inclined to read novels into a particular actors expression, it just comes off like an inconsistency or another thing that does not add up. I cannot ignore though that it is increasing the shallow feel of this show and while I can say that is a trend on TV, I am glad of a spot where a few others also liked the potential of a story that required character flaws to drive the drama between the characters, prompting conversation rather than write around it with endless magical plot contrivances and convenient throw-it- under the evil bus and kill them off solutions.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I realy would love to know what would be Neal’s reaction to the current situations going on right within the show if he were still alive.
We know he still loved Emma and we know he has a distain for magic because of what it did to his papa (I swear this show has me using the word papa more than father xD) and now the same magic that corrupted his father…is effective the woman he loves, the father of his child. Neal would fight as hard as he could to get that darkness away from, 100%! I can only imagine all the great scenes!
But that’s just it.
I can only imagine T_T
I still do that quite frequently, imagine how Neal would fit into the story or episode. Like in the AU, wouldn’t it have been great to see Neal/Belle/Rump as an actual family. Plus more EF for Neal 😛
If Rump didn’t get to have his say in what happened to who and all the heroes just became villains, then Neal would probably have been the Dark One in the AU which would have been appropriate because that’d have been his exact opposite and he’d have turned into someone who he’d never want to be.
*sigh*
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICI had a huge long response to KFC and the forum ate it.
*sigh* I’m too tired to retype.
So I’ll just apologize for being touchy and move on. Fighting with a friend isn’t worth it. Nothing about this show is worth it.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I had a huge long response to KFC and the forum ate it. *sigh* I’m too tired to retype. So I’ll just apologize for being touchy and move on. Fighting with a friend isn’t worth it. Nothing about this show is worth it.
Fighting, see….that is just far too strong a word, and while I am curious what you would have said in that eaten post I know you said it was not a good day and I am sorry for contributing to that somehow.
I agree this show is not worth the angst it generates. It’s too bad because it all started off so well…but I feel like shows I like either get cancelled or jump down a hole of weirdness these days, or both!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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