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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
Just discovered that from season 2 onwards, OUAT is classed as a “15” which means that anyone below that age isn’t supposed to watch it. This is a show that is on at 8pm when kids are still up. Why wasn’t it put on at a later time?
Things i’d classify as more innappropriate than OUAT come on at that time (Family Guy for example which has much more crude humor) But 8 o’clock on a sunday…I think most young kids would be in bed. Well in theory, not in practice 😛 I mean the next day is school so that’s why I would think that.
Plus OUAT has no graphic language, nudity, or gore or anything to give it a later time like say, True Blood or Game Of Thrones.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICBack in my day, casting the curse would “leave an unfillable hole” in one’s heart. I wonder if that will come into play for Hook.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICBack in my day, casting the curse would “leave an unfillable hole” in one’s heart. I wonder if that will come into play for Hook.
You’re cute.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Back in my day, casting the curse would “leave an unfillable hole” in one’s heart. I wonder if that will come into play for Hook.
I can’t tell you how much I love this post…LOL TW! Nine times out of ten, they’ll say, it left a hole in Nimue’s heart…..you know Hook’s gonna weasel himself out of this one way or another.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I never noticed before how Lana Parilla has a scar on her top lip but it was really noticeable in the scene between OQ and Zelena with the baby. How did she do it?
I think the writers have written themselves into a corner with DO Hook, CS going forward and to an extent RumBelle. There is nothing likeable about DO Hook (outside of the scene when he is challenging Rumple to a duel and is channelling DO Rumple), he’s nasty, he belittles Emma because she “failed” him, his line about Milah was just awful on so many levels, etc. All in all, this episode just showed how unhealthy and toxic CS is, and the only thing separating it from the “romance” that the writers like to pretend it is and the emotional abuse it actually is, is whether or not Hook is playing “nice”. Because if he isn’t, you see CS for what it really is without the mask of pretence, an abusive and unhealthy relationship that will only destroy Emma and Hook.
In regards to RumBelle, considering the very high probability that the writers will whitewash Hook’s actions as the dark one claiming “the darkness made him do it”, this creates a double standard. Belle is holding Rumple responsible for his DO actions yet if Hook is given a free pass, Rumple should be given one too. Likewise, if Rumple is held responsible, Hook should be too. The writers are in very real danger of making Belle look hypocritical if she’s willing to forgive Hook but not Rumple.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixShocking. Characters will give Hook a pass while making another villain who did the same things out to be the Devil himself.
I am so shocked.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Feel free to skip this post, since it contains analysis of why CS is deliberately being shown not to have true love. To start, Snow and Charming had this conversation about Emma and Hook’s relationship:
David: Emma was seconds away from destroying the darkness and ending this.
Snow: And Hook would have been dead. She chose love, David. And we would have done the same thing. We’d share one heart because we took the same kind of risk that Emma took. We save each other. That is what our family does. So have some faith in her.
David: I do. I just hope her faith in Hook is justified.Snow held up her own relationship with Charming as standard by which to measure the relationship Emma and Hook have. Even though Emma was trying to save Hook when she tethered him to Excalibur, Hook doesn’t see it that way. He sees it as an act of betrayal by the woman he loved. Hook said, “After spending centuries quelling my bloodlust, you threw me right back into that darkness! Job well-done, Emma!”
At first, it seemed like Emma was getting through to Hook in a field of the flowers of doom, but then he betrayed her. It was shown just why Emma’s faith in Hook was unjustified. Their relationship was first compared and then contrasted with Snow and David’s true love, and it failed that test. Emma tried to save Hook, but he didn’t even try to save the shred of hope that remained for a future with Emma. When Emma pleaded with Hook to chose her and their future together, he said,
Hook: “Of course I still have feelings for you… Anger. Hatred. Disappointment…. When you tethered me to Excalibur, you opened my eyes. And I now see you for what you really are… an anchor. Ha! And I see clearly now that you were nothing more than a pretty blonde distraction. But guess what, Swan? I am a free man now. And you will never hold me back from getting what I want again.”
It’s not just the dark one curse that is making Hook act like this, because we’ve seen him act like this before when he wasn’t cursed. It’s like in S2 when Emma and Hook betrayed each other. First, Emma left him at the top of the beanstalk (understandably to get back to her son). Then Hook double crossed Emma by leaving her and her mother for dead in that magically fortified jail cell. Only this most recent betrayal is worse than being left for dead, because Hook embraced his hated and revenge over any love he had for Emma. Emma keeping him alive against his will is the ultimate betrayal of love for him. Yes, he wants to get back at Rumple for a centuries-old feud, but also at Emma, since he blames her for cursing him as the thing he hates most.
Emma: The darkness is using you. It doesn’t care what you want. It only cares what it wants.
Hook: Well, you’re only a pawn if you don’t know you’re being used. As long as I get what I want, I don’t give a damn about the rest. And you of all people should understand that.
Emma: Everything I did, I did for you.
Hook: Well, you see, that’s your problem, Swan. You’re so afraid of losing the people that you love that you push them away. And that’s why you’ll always be an orphan. You don’t need some villain swooping in to destroy your happiness. You do that quite well all on your own.
Emma: Why are you doing this?
Hook: Because… I want to hurt you… like you hurt me.Colin has said that Hook is a sociopath, which means he doesn’t care about the feelings of others; the darkness just brings out those darker impulses that already existed since S2 in Hook’s nature. He actually wants to hurt Emma the way she hurt him. He doesn’t care if Emma was tying to save him. To him, she just started the cycle or revenge again. Emma may have selfishly tethered Hook to the sword because she’s afraid of losing him after she lost so many people, but at least she acted out of feelings of love. By contrast, Hook is acting out of feelings of loathing for Emma. It’s sometimes a fine line between feelings of love and hate and Hook oh so easily turned on Emma to embrace his feelings of hate for her.
All in all, this episode just showed how unhealthy and toxic CS is, and the only thing separating it from the “romance” that the writers like to pretend it is and the emotional abuse it actually is, is whether or not Hook is playing “nice”. Because if he isn’t, you see CS for what it really is without the mask of pretence, an abusive and unhealthy relationship that will only destroy Emma and Hook.
I’m still in the minority of viewers who thinks all of this toxicity is being written intentionally. Despite the ABC-made promo which declared Emma to be fighting for her “one true love” what we got is Hook breaking her heart. Instead of Hook showing that that Emma’s faith in him was justified, he showed exactly why it wasn’t by double crossing her and opening a portal to hell and putting the entire town at risk. Also, there was that little-yet-oh-so-important event when Hook crushed Merlin’s heart after Emma said doing so would mean the destruction of his happy ending with her.
Emma: Your revenge is not your happy ending. I am. You told me that. If you destroy this heart, you will destroy your happy ending along with it.
Hook: No, Killian Jones told you that. Your lovesick puppy dog. But that man died the moment you turned him into a Dark One. [crushes Merlin’s heart]While one might argue that Emma will forgive and forget, a straightforward reading is that Emma meant Hook would loose her permanently if he crosses that line of killing Merlin. Hook crushing that heart to cast the dark curse was the point of no return. It wasn’t just the murder of Merlin that destroyed that happiness; it was Hook putting his desire for revenge over love by betraying Emma that was the last straw. I don’t see how CS can come back from this.
With the revelation that Milha is returning in 5×14, I’m anticipating some juicy revelations for Emma. How many times was Milha name dropped in this episode? Emma still has to find out exactly how Milha was related to Rumple and Baelfire.
In regards to RumBelle, considering the very high probability that the writers will whitewash Hook’s actions as the dark one claiming “the darkness made him do it”, this creates a double standard. Belle is holding Rumple responsible for his DO actions yet if Hook is given a free pass, Rumple should be given one too. Likewise, if Rumple is held responsible, Hook should be too. The writers are in very real danger of making Belle look hypocritical if she’s willing to forgive Hook but not Rumple.
As Rumple pointed out, he is now the purest hero who ever lived and he doesn’t get a free pass with Belle for things he did when consumed by darkness. Hook immediately succumbed to darkness, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have any free will; Emma showed that she was able to do good despite the darkness in her. Hook gave in right away, but it was still his choice not to fight it at all. Hook said those horrible things to Emma because he is so full of hatred towards Emma for what he perceived as the worst betrayal she could have done against him. Look how Nimue murdered her “true love” Merlin. Hook just opened a portal to the Underworld. He seems like he’s fully given over to the darkness, and there’s almost nothing he wouldn’t do to get revenge, even putting Emma’s family in danger.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
To start, Snow and Charming had this conversation about Emma and Hook’s relationship:
David: Emma was seconds away from destroying the darkness and ending this.
Snow: And Hook would have been dead. She chose love, David. And we would have done the same thing. We’d share one heart because we took the same kind of risk that Emma took. We save each other. That is what our family does. So have some faith in her.
David: I do. I just hope her faith in Hook is justified.Snow held up her own relationship with Charming as standard by which to measure the relationship Emma and Hook have.
That actually annoyed me when Snow delivered that line because it shows how selfish Snow can be. Emma destroying the darkness would’ve benefitted EVERYBODY, the CharmingMillsStilstkin clan and all the in EF/Camelot and all those in Storybrooke. But because Emma put her “love” above all, there is now a vicious dark one running around who doesn’t care about anyone, and that is everybody’s problem. Snow saying they would have done the same thing is a very selfish thing because Snow is supposed to be a queen, she is supposed to care about her subjects. If Snow faced a choice between saving 50 peasants or Charming, she would choose Charming because SHE couldn’t bear to be without him. Never mind that there would be 50 families grieving for the loss of a loved one, so long as Snow had HER true love and that HER family were okay, she doesn’t care about anyone else.
Colin has said that Hook is a sociopath
Interesting. Very interesting. Not only do you have the actor portraying this character describing him as a sociopath, but it’s factually proven that it’s almost impossible to have a healthy relationship with a sociopath because they lack the ability to feel real empathy and compassion for others. They can pretend in order to manipulate others but they’ll only do so until they get what they want at which point they will just toss the person aside because they’ve served their purpose.
The fact that Colin describes Hook as a sociopath is very telling.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixLikewise, if Rumple is held responsible, Hook should be too.
This discrepancy bugs me too — it’s, among other things, inconsistent worlbuilding. I’ll try to speak to both CS and Rumbelle, but it’s really about how I think the Darkness is portrayed on the show so feel free to skip if this isn’t up your alley. I think one way to make it make sense is to assume that the Darkness is a sentient parasitic entity that binds with the worst aspect of a person’s character, amplifies it to the exclusion of all other traits, and then twists it into an obsession that then creates a stable symbiotic relationship with the parasite, such that the host actually furthers the goals of the Darkness, while protecting it from potential attack.
If so, then DO! Rumple and DO!Emma are a lot more similar to each other than either is to DO!Hook or DO!Nimue. Both Rumple and Emma are motivated by similar things — love and the fear of abandonment/loss. In both of their cases, the Darkness amplifies and “twists” it, to use Emma’s expression, to the point of an obsessive desire to be with the object of their affection (respectively, parental love and romantic love), and to try to cover their butt when things go off rails. I think the Darkness’s contribution here is primarily that this love becomes selfish, or at least myopic, and that the fear to lose the loved one overwhelms all morals and reasoning, because ultimately that’s how the Darkness stays in control, and furthers its own goals. At the same time, I think the Darkness can’t create emotions out of nothing — it has to work with what it’s got, perverting or amplifying the pre-existing psychological structure.
Now, CS vs Rumbelle. I think from the Darkness’s point of view, Rumple and Emma are both disastrously bad DOs. Rumple wasted 200 years of the collective DOs’ time looking for his son. Then he went and met Belle, and fell in love, and almost got the DO curse TLKed away. We could actually re-imagine the whole S4 Rumple character fiasco as the Darkness trying to do a course correction, or minimally pass into a more appropriate host — and from that perspective, it succeeded quite well. Of course, then it got stuck with Emma, who is arguably even worse (from the Darkness’s perspective) than Rumple. Now, the fact that it picked Regina at first should be telling. Anyway, Emma came pretty darn close to getting rid of the DO curse altogether, and was quite set on that path, voices or not.
Rumbelle would have always been a threat. But, again, if the only thing that the Darkness has to work with is a couple of Rumple’s core emotions (love/fear), then the only strategy available to it is to use Rumple’s fear to sabotage his relationships. Which is actually quite consistent with Rumple’s behavior towards both Nealfire and Belle — the biggest problem Rumbelle was that he was compulsively lying to her, and always out of fear. We’re seeing something similar happening with Emma and Hook, with the major difference that Belle is actually a good person.
By contrast, again, if we assume that the Darkness can’t create something out of nothing, and that it has to strategize to get what it wants, CS is perfect for it because it’s already, as many here have pointed out, deeply toxic. So it makes sense for the Darkness to twist Emma’s feelings of love/fear into an irrational, overwhelming obsession with Hook once it saw an opportunity to pass to a potentially more effective host.
A side note. If the Darkness works with core character weaknesses, then what drives Hook as a character isn’t actually the desire for revenge — that’s just the self-righteous glitter he sprinkles on it — but a really cruel, sadistic desire to harm others. Sure, Hook’s cruelty focuses on those who he perceives to have slighted him, but that’s still pretty classic psychopathic behavior. If before the Darkness some other aspects of his character were perhaps keeping this in check — say, the desire to overcome the “challenge” that is Emma — now he’s just that sociopathic aspect, well on its way to turning into a homicidal maniac.
We’ll see where the writers take it from here. I’m not sure they’re thinking it through — so this is really a rationalization of what I think the show is showing, rather than what it’s necessarily intending. Either way, they’re going to need a lot of bleach to whitewash Hook again, is all I’m sayin’
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