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Screwball did a really interesting essay on Emma’s plan to go to the underworld to get Hook. http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/135321215006/my-problem-with-emmas-underworld-vacation-the
Emma’s a selfish 5 year old who gets emotionally reset every season/arc. So yeah. It won’t surprise me at all that come S6, Emma will once again be talking about her walls/being abandoned/losing everyone she loves. It’s what the writers do. They don’t actually let her progress so she stays a petulant 5 yr old who has to get whatever she wants.
But even that’s not my biggest beef with this trip to the Underworld. Plot logistics aside (how do you plan on putting a heart inside a spirit, Miss Swan?!) Hook just, flat out, doesn’t deserve to be brought back from actual, buried in the ground, death.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Screwball did a really interesting essay on Emma’s plan to go to the underworld to get Hook. http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/135321215006/my-problem-with-emmas-underworld-vacation-the
But even that’s not my biggest beef with this trip to the Underworld. Plot logistics aside (how do you plan on putting a heart inside a spirit, Miss Swan?!) Hook just, flat out, doesn’t deserve to be brought back from actual, buried in the ground, death.
Regina probably feels like slapping herself silly….why the thought to split her heart to put in Daniel instead of that fake one. If Regina doesn’t meet Daniel in the Underworld…we’re gonna have an issue. But casting those thoughts aside….it does irk me as well how everyone can just sweep Hook’s most recent sins under the carpet….this man literally was just about to send all of you to Hell, now because of his last second repent, you’re going to Hell to bring him back? Who does this??????
Not to mention the fact, they are playing with fire as you just can’t go to the Underworld and expect to waltz out without dragging something back with you? Especially if the only price to pay is a life for a life….let’s be honest, that’s the easiest price for Cora, Pan, and especially Cruella to pay.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Screwball did a really interesting essay on Emma’s plan to go to the underworld to get Hook. http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/135321215006/my-problem-with-emmas-underworld-vacation-the
It’s a nice essay. But I also think it points to the “elephant in the room:” why does Emma, arguably the central figure of the show, still have the emotional complexity of pasta salad 5 seasons later? Sure, time moves differently in the OUAT verse, but for the audience that’s 5 whole years. I mean, from the writers’ perspective, wouldn’t you think to yourself “Hmm, 5 years is a long time in my own life — hey, look at all this stuff that’s happened! I’m a different person now than when I started working on this show! *cue the Eureka moment* I know! Maybe I should incorporate this sense of progression into my characters’ fictional lives!”
Instead, most of OUAT’s characters are either static, or reset to 0 with enviable regularity. Even Regina, arguably the character who has had the most progress since S1, has largely ‘fossilized,’ beyond a mild back-and-forth around Zelena and the baby. She’s still fun and interesting to watch, but only because Lana Perilla kills it. But there’s hardly any progression at all for any of them, really. Actually, since S3, the only character that’s really “progressed” if you can call it that, is Hook. And that would be fine, except that it seems to have been happening at the expense of all the other characters, which at this point seem to be there only to accommodate his arc.
Not to mention the fact, they are playing with fire as you just can’t go to the Underworld and expect to waltz out without dragging something back with you?
There’s something slightly immoral about the Savior waltzing into the Underworld and only saving one person. If Emma’s goal was to put a stopper in death and save *everyone* who had repented and asked for forgiveness, that’s one thing; that keeps nicely to her Savior trope, especially on a show where the leading cosmology of the writers is a Judaeo-Christian one. But seriously, how can the writers justify Emma going down to the Underworld and not save other innocent and lost souls (souls that are more innocent than Hook)?
The way Rumple talked about the Underworld, you went there no matter what (which does keep with some Greek myth) but that the Underworld as a whole was terrible (which does not keep with Greek myth). This doesn’t even have to go back to Neal and him as the elephant in the room, but what about the poor souls in the village Regina had destroyed? What about the Ava’s of the world (mostly innocent mother who was murdered?) The Leo’s? The victims of Rumple, Cora, Pan, Regina, Hook, and the other villains who were bent on their endgame and didn’t care who got in the way? How does Emma, as the Savior–and moreover, the SHOW–justify that they have to remain in “hell?”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Is it possible that the underworld is just the name of the land of the dead and it has different place swithin it? Perhaps we are going to see is middleground/the purgatory side of it and Rumpel was in the hell side (Tartarus? Right?) and all the good people are on the heaven-ish side of it.
They specifically said on the show Rumpel went to Hell and came back and then made the distinction that hell is not the underworld.. So…
I honestly don’t know. I had a train of thought but it got derailed somewhere along this crazy track.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICThey specifically said on the show Rumpel went to Hell and came back and then made the distinction that hell is not the underworld.. So…
They also kept saying “it’s not hell; it’s the underworld” and apparently it’s terrible all around.
I mean, Liam didn’t exactly do anything villainous so why is he there?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"They specifically said on the show Rumpel went to Hell and came back and then made the distinction that hell is not the underworld.. So…
They also kept saying “it’s not hell; it’s the underworld” and apparently it’s terrible all around.
I mean, Liam didn’t exactly do anything villainous so why is he there?
Plot and because the actor was available.
The quality of the writing on the show has declined dramatically since season 1. Partly because of the 11/11 split (the writers are trying to shoehorn a season long arc into half a season so characters aren’t fleshed out and disappear off the face of the earth when they’re arc is done), partly because the characters never get shown to be having “down time” they’re constantly racing from one crisis to another right after dealing with the first crisis but also ever since the introduction of CS which coincidentally is when all the other factors come into play.
Hook does not work as a romantic lead. Yes he’s good looking but you need more than that for your romantic lead in order for the “love story” to feel natural. Hook started his run on the show as a villain and IMO, there are different categories of villains:
1. The villains you hate and hope they get their arse handed to them in spectacular fashion by the heroes.
2. The villains that you kind of want to win because they’re awesome but you know the heroes are going to beat them.
3. The villains you really want to win because the heroes are just awful.
4. The villains you just want to turn nice so everybody gets along because of a tragic backstory.Hook started in category 1 but the writers have tried to force him into category 4. It’s not been a natural progression which makes it all the more jarring. In season 2, Hook was an absolute stinker. He was constantly making suggestive comments and innuendos towards the female characters, he was constantly stabbing everyone in the back depending on who he benefitted from working with the most, and assaulted Belle several times past and present over something that she had nothing to do with just because of her affiliation with Rumple. Hook couldn’t get the revenge he wanted on Rumple so he took it out on Belle.
In episode 14, he followed Emma and Rumple to Manhattan all so he could kill Rumple. In episode 20, he came back, was shown that Rumple didn’t die, then decided to work with GOAT to achieve his revenge. Hook got cold feet over GOAT’s plan then double crossed them to work with the heroes who he then double crossed to steal the bean so he could escape a disintegrating Storybrooke. (The fact that the Charmings were only planning to save themselves and their friends and leave the rest of the town including RumBelle to die is another matter). Hook’s conscience was only pricked because he remembered he screwed over Baelfire who was his last link to MILAH that he decided to come back and help because Emma, Henry and co were BAELFIRE’s family. Also Henry’s abduction by GOAT was partially Hook’s fault so of course he’d feel somewhat guilty that not only did he screw over Baelfire but he’s now done the same thing to Baelfire’s son.
In 3A, Hook suddenly became all about Emma. Despite his motivation for helping in season 2 being because of Baelfire, now he considers Baelfire a love rival for Emma’s affections. Hook suddenly wasn’t helping because it was the right thing and he felt guilty about his part in proceedings that lead to Henry’s abduction. He was only helping so he could get into Emma’s good books. Even Pan knew this and tried using Emma as an incentive for Hook to mind his own business and not interfere. Even when Emma tells Hook and Neal to cut it out because all she cares about is Henry, Neal accepts that fact whilst Hook is all “WHEN I win your heart, AND I WILL WIN it”. Hook is not taking no for an answer. His pursuit of Emma continues over the next half season until eventually Hook wins and gets what he wants because Emma has given in.
Hook is all smiles and sunshine towards Emma and her family because it benefits him to be perceived in a positive way but he is still awful to those where he doesn’t benefit such as Will. Rumple insinuated to Hook that the hand was possessed before revealing that there was nothing actually wrong with it, yet Hook showed a darker side because he had the hand as an “excuse”. Rumple took Hook’s heart, made no lie that he planned to crush it, wasn’t actively controlling Hook with it yet Hook still did his bidding such as hatting the fairies. Hook didn’t even try to fight Rumple despite the fact that Rumple couldn’t crush his heart until the time was right. Hook could’ve made life as difficult as possible for Rumple but he didn’t because he had an excuse for why he was doing dark things. The only time we see Hook fighting Rumple ironically is when Rumple is actively controlling him and there is a threat to EMMA.
In 4B and 5A, Hook doesn’t want Emma dark because then she’s not HIS Emma. He tells her that he likes her walls because HE likes to be the one to break them down (which in itself implies ownership that only he is allowed to break down Emma’s walls). Hook seems normal until he finds out he’s the dark one, despite being the dark one all along, and suddenly he goes super dark even insulting Emma and belittling her. The only difference between him not knowing he’s the dark one and knowing he’s the dark one is that now he can use the darkness as AN EXCUSE for his bad behaviour which he ultimately blamed on Emma, calling her “a pretty blonde distraction” who caused him to go off course of getting revenge on a now magicless and therefore weakened Rumplestiltskin, whom he only ever goes after when Rumple is weaker than him. Hook even belittles Milah, the supposed love of his life, saying that if Rumple had fought for her, he would’ve returned her “soiled”. If Milah meant so little to him that he would’ve returned her just like that, why did Hook spend so long trying to avenge her death? Unless Hook was just using that as an EXCUSE because he felt humiliated that Rumple, the weak man he’d bullied has suddenly become powerful and bested him. Hook’s pride wouldn’t allow it.
So here we have a self-serving man who targets those weaker than him, and only does something if there is some sort of benefit for him. He easily slides into bad behaviour when he has an excuse and something to blame it on rather than taking responsibility for his actions. He views women as objects and “distractions” to occupy his time. In 3B when he didn’t want Emma going with past Hook, was it really because he didn’t want her to see him what he used to be like, or more likely that he didn’t want her to see his true colours?
How in the hell could this man legitimately be considered for a romantic lead?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThey specifically said on the show Rumpel went to Hell and came back and then made the distinction that hell is not the underworld.. So…
They also kept saying “it’s not hell; it’s the underworld” and apparently it’s terrible all around.
I mean, Liam didn’t exactly do anything villainous so why is he there?
Ok their version of UW simply sucks, they cant say is not hell, is for people with unfinish business, and then say that Neal move on bc had no unfinish business, which we all know is not true, he didnt really have true talk with Emma, Rumple, Hook, he didnt said goodbye to the Darlings and most of all to his son, he didnt talk with Pan, he didnt talk with his mother, he didnt talked with August, heck he didnt said some things to Zelena and i ahev to say i want neal away from this, but even i know that this is a stupid argument, saying, UW is a place with people with no unfinish business, so what happens after they finish, they move on? to where?, im seing all the villains move on and be redeemed, but in the end appears Neal is the only one with blood relations and feelings related with no unfinish business with the main characters at all and with the recurring ones, so he did amends with everyone off screen in live, he may even had time to say goodbye to the darlings and maybe Hnery putting the rose on Neal grave was enough. But in the end we know why Milah and liam are there, to give blessings to CS, to mila say hook deserves to be happy again and emma loves him ad she praising hook to emma and liam to be happy that his brother found someone like emma *rolls eyes*
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
Something to Read about why Neal had to die. http://tinkerbellreturns.tumblr.com/post/135387862432/why-neal-had-to-die
ps.suggest to read one note in this post, i dont add it here bc of language.
More from this girl: http://tinkerbellreturns.tumblr.com/post/135293151182/killing-neal-was-a-disservice-to-swanfire-and
And she keeps posting more interesting stuff: http://tinkerbellreturns.tumblr.com/post/135260669122/queen-wanda-maximoff-hi-everyone-you-know
ps.suggest to read one note in this post, i dont add it here bc of language.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
Anybody else still laughing at Hook telling Emma that out of everyone she’s ever known, he never abandoned her…..yet he seems to have forgotten that he left her and Snow White to die in a Cave back in Season 2. Did Adam and Eddy forget their own show again? Or do they just expect us not to remember?
Josh just looks bored with OUAT now….Ginny took down her twitter and just seems done with everything….JMo is caught in a constant crossfire between CaptainSwan and SwanQueen….Lana caters only to SwanQueen, more than likely to keep them from having temper tantrums like they do with JMo, no one knows last time she retweeted or posted anything close to OutlawQueen….Bobby is in it only for the money and not for the love of doing it like he was three seasons ago….Emilie has no screentime….Sean and Colin seem to just be glad they’re even still here with lines to say compared to Emilie…..and Bex is just cruising along…..WHAT IS OUAT NOW?
I don’t understand it anymore….what is this show? How could something so great fall so far?
Oh well…at least MRJ has moved on and seems far happier on his new show than he ever did on Once. At least he’s happy….I bet he’s glad that he got off this Titanic Show before it sunk.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
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