Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[kfchimera]

I too have many scattered thoughts now.

First–did I miss something or was there no explanation for Wendy having the robe? SOmetimes my DVR eats the first few minutes but it felt like suddenly Hook and Neal were sort-of getting along.  Was it just the “I’ll back off” speech in the diner?

Now I could see someone trying to argue that Hook being in pain, trying to hook up with Tink, making Emma think he was with Tink was his way of trying to back off–but that is a huge stretch for me.  A more fair way of “backing off” and no mind games and being in it for the “long haul” would be to go to Emma, tell her she needs to deal with Neal, and he’ll be waiting.  If Hook truly had love for Emma, that is what he would do–talk WITH her, not at her.  Hook’s been talking at Emma  a lot, telling her what he feels, what he wants to know, but he really hasn’t picked up on her hesitancy and fears.    I think Neal might if Emma would give him a bit more time, but she is scared to let her guard down, and in some ways, Neal breaks through her defenses.

So it is hard for Emma to be around him and just be “Emma” when she thinks she has to be “Savior.” I loved how you put that Ranisha.  The show paralleled Snow and David remembering a time when she was scared to relax and enjoy happiness, and outright, Snow and David made the comparison to Emma with Neal.

David didn’t even really say much about Hook.  It’s not pushing away Hook because they misunderstand him, or think he’s awful in a “Papa don’t Preach” –or Mo French sort of way.  He didn’t even dignify Emma’s question about keeping her away from Hook with more than a joke.    If Emma wants to waste her time on Hook, David knows she’s a grown woman and will have to figure it out herself.

It may take a frustrating amount of time, but then, that’s TV drama.   We see so many things Emma does not see, and obviously some of it is frustrating as there are things she sees/hears apparently that we don’t!

Hook didn’t seem in “whitewash” Hero Mode anymore today though.  Pointing out that Neal walked out on Emma once (and really what does he know about it?) was not really a “friendly” thing to say.   I’ve seen a lot of shows where two friends want the same girl, and it’s more of a “I love her, so don’t break her heart,” not,  “Well she probably won’t want you since you messed it up once, and when she figures that out, well what woman wouldn’t want me?”    It’s a shade in the “Did you honestly think she’d want someone like you, when she could have someone like me?” speech Gaston makes to the beast.

Then there was the moment with Tink.   Asking for a little “dalliance” is one thing, both adults and Hook isn’t with Emma (but so much for the chaste pirate pining for his love).   What really bothered me is the scene outside the Inn when Emma arrived.  Let’s put aside the childishness of trying to make someone jealous but consider it was rude to Tink especially after what she’d said, first that she knew he was hung up on Emma, and second it was a matter of dignity to her.   It shows one thing I was wondering about–how does Hook treat people other than Emma? Has he really changed?  It would seem, not so much.   He puts on an act for Emma.Finally, Neal was NOT pushy.  There’s  a certain amount of wooing and pursuit Neal has to do because the truth is,  Emma will respond to being wanted and pursued.   Hook does it, so if Neal is way too passive it makes him look like he doesn’t care, especially in comparison.  Now I feel Hook came on WAY too strong, and if his “backing off” meant anything, it was probably more a realization that he better do that or Emma would push Hook further away.  I don’t know if Hook genuinely said to Neal what he did because of Neal.   All the same, Neal really didn’t push too hard.He started off asking to talk, and the “lunch” was really no pressure.  It wasn’t choose me or I’m done, but it was I’ll understand and stop putting pressure on you romantically if you do not come.   Of course, maybe Neal set it up that way, in part because of doubt planted by Hook that Emma doesn’t want to let him back in.   Neal wouldn’t want to push Emma if that truly is how she feels–he already told her if all they have from their former relationship is Henry, then they did alright.   I have a feeling Emma is going to get stuck somehow with Hook, and things will progress a little more, until she realizes “What am I doing?” Then she will have to go after Neal.   Neal will just assume she’s chosen to be with Hook, and he’ll accept it because he loves her and wants her to be happy.  He won’t make a big fuss, even though it is an extra twist of the knife of fate right in his gut.Small steps I suppose, but tonight, we saw again the theme that Emma is scared to open herself to happiness and that’s really why she resists Neal, because she is scared something else will happen and she’d lose that happiness again (not because he would leave her or do something, but because fate).

 

[RumplesGirl]

That means SF is going to be on hold until the end of S3. If anything, I think CS is about to hit us

I would really like for it to not be dragged out that long

The 311 promo GAH. those looks do not help the sense of doom I feel. However Slurpeez makes good points about how being with Hook is the result of a curse, not TL

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[RumplesGirl]

That means SF is going to be on hold until the end of S3. If anything, I think CS is about to hit us

I would really like for it to not be dragged out that long

The 311 promo GAH. those looks do not help the sense of doom I feel. However Slurpeez makes good points about how being with Hook is the result of a curse, not TL

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

Don’t worry. I know that it won’t be an easy road for them. But it wouldn’t be TL if it was. Whatever Emma overcomes I think it’ll make her 10x more grateful, when she finally let’s herself have her happy moment. *cough* Neal *cough* We know that whenever Emma doubts herself, she always comes back fighting stronger then ever and eventually defeating her fears. She’s gonna overcome this new obstacle, I know it.

I couldn’t agree more! Remember what Neal said to Emma at the end of S2? “If there’s one thing I know about you, it’s that you don’t stop looking until you find what you’re looking for” (paraphrase), and Emma is looking at Neal longingly as he says it! Emma and Neal are meant to be; it’s just a matter of time. Emma needs to stop being scared, like Snow White did, otherwise she’ll never experience any of the good moments. Charming and Snow are clearly encouraging Emma to give it a go with Neal, because her happy ending will only begin when Emma allows herself to believe that she deserves her happy ending. And both Snow and Charming seem to recognize that Emma’s happy ending might just start with having hope that she and Neal could be happy together. Yet, Emma’s reticence comes from her belief that as the savior, she doesn’t get to take it easy. It took Emma all of S1 to accept that she’s the savior, and I think it’s going to take Emma all of S3 to accept that saviors deserves to have a happy ending too. True, being a savior meant she didn’t get to have Neal in her life the first time around, but it doesn’t mean she and Neal won’t eventually get their dream of Tallahassee. They will as sure as their love is true. I am even more convinced after tonight that Snow and Charming identify the love that Emma and Neal have for one another as being true love, because it’s lasted through everything. It’s just a matter of Emma being brave enough to accept that she owes it to herself to give Neal a second chance, because she deserves to have Tallahassee with him!

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

I too have many scattered thoughts now.

First–did I miss something or was there no explanation for Wendy having the robe? SOmetimes my DVR eats the first few minutes but it felt like suddenly Hook and Neal were sort-of getting along. Was it just the “I’ll back off” speech in the diner?

Now I could see someone trying to argue that Hook being in pain, trying to hook up with Tink, making Emma think he was with Tink was his way of trying to back off–but that is a huge stretch for me. A more fair way of “backing off” and no mind games and being in it for the “long haul” would be to go to Emma, tell her she needs to deal with Neal, and he’ll be waiting. If Hook truly had love for Emma, that is what he would do–talk WITH her, not at her. Hook’s been talking at Emma a lot, telling her what he feels, what he wants to know, but he really hasn’t picked up on her hesitancy and fears. I think Neal might if Emma would give him a bit more time, but she is scared to let her guard down, and in some ways, Neal breaks through her defenses.

So it is hard for Emma to be around him and just be “Emma” when she thinks she has to be “Savior.” I loved how you put that Ranisha. The show paralleled Snow and David remembering a time when she was scared to relax and enjoy happiness, and outright, Snow and David made the comparison to Emma with Neal.

David didn’t even really say much about Hook. It’s not pushing away Hook because they misunderstand him, or think he’s awful in a “Papa don’t Preach” –or Mo French sort of way. He didn’t even dignify Emma’s question about keeping her away from Hook with more than a joke. If Emma wants to waste her time on Hook, David knows she’s a grown woman and will have to figure it out herself.

It may take a frustrating amount of time, but then, that’s TV drama. We see so many things Emma does not see, and obviously some of it is frustrating as there are things she sees/hears apparently that we don’t!

Hook didn’t seem in “whitewash” Hero Mode anymore today though. Pointing out that Neal walked out on Emma once (and really what does he know about it?) was not really a “friendly” thing to say. I’ve seen a lot of shows where two friends want the same girl, and it’s more of a “I love her, so don’t break her heart,” not, “Well she probably won’t want you since you messed it up once, and when she figures that out, well what woman wouldn’t want me?” It’s a shade in the “Did you honestly think she’d want someone like you, when she could have someone like me?” speech Gaston makes to the beast.

Then there was the moment with Tink. Asking for a little “dalliance” is one thing, both adults and Hook isn’t with Emma (but so much for the chaste pirate pining for his love). What really bothered me is the scene outside the Inn when Emma arrived. Let’s put aside the childishness of trying to make someone jealous but consider it was rude to Tink especially after what she’d said, first that she knew he was hung up on Emma, and second it was a matter of dignity to her. It shows one thing I was wondering about–how does Hook treat people other than Emma? Has he really changed? It would seem, not so much. He puts on an act for Emma.Finally, Neal was NOT pushy. There’s a certain amount of wooing and pursuit Neal has to do because the truth is, Emma will respond to being wanted and pursued. Hook does it, so if Neal is way too passive it makes him look like he doesn’t care, especially in comparison. Now I feel Hook came on WAY too strong, and if his “backing off” meant anything, it was probably more a realization that he better do that or Emma would push Hook further away. I don’t know if Hook genuinely said to Neal what he did because of Neal. All the same, Neal really didn’t push too hard.He started off asking to talk, and the “lunch” was really no pressure. It wasn’t choose me or I’m done, but it was I’ll understand and stop putting pressure on you romantically if you do not come. Of course, maybe Neal set it up that way, in part because of doubt planted by Hook that Emma doesn’t want to let him back in. Neal wouldn’t want to push Emma if that truly is how she feels–he already told her if all they have from their former relationship is Henry, then they did alright. I have a feeling Emma is going to get stuck somehow with Hook, and things will progress a little more, until she realizes “What am I doing?” Then she will have to go after Neal. Neal will just assume she’s chosen to be with Hook, and he’ll accept it because he loves her and wants her to be happy. He won’t make a big fuss, even though it is an extra twist of the knife of fate right in his gut.Small steps I suppose, but tonight, we saw again the theme that Emma is scared to open herself to happiness and that’s really why she resists Neal, because she is scared something else will happen and she’d lose that happiness again (not because he would leave her or do something, but because fate).

Yes to everything you just wrote!

Also, take a look at what Colin O’Donoghue live-tweeted during the show!

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Phee]

Gah! I love daddy charming. His talk with Emma is what I want to see more of in terms of father/daughter relationship. It hit all the right notes on him giving her advice to grasp the happy moments, when Emma was too afraid of allowing herself that luxury. I still believe Emma doesn’t want to let Neal in because the moment she’s happy she’s afraid that bad things will happen again. I like that Charming tries to tell her that those are the moments that you should grab onto. It wasn’t because Emma believes Neal is a bad guy and is not right for her, it’s because she’s too afraid to let herself have her happy moment. And she was about to go to Granny’s with Charming!!!!! WHY? Because Neal is waiting for her!!!! She wanted to give her dad’s advice a shot!!!! 🙂 *happy dance!*

Daddy Charming FTW!!! It really was a beautiful family moment, because he was seeing Snow in Emma, and was using his experience with Snow to help their daughter decide what the right thing to do was, and I JUST REALLY LOVED THAT SCENE OK.

Emma was totally fighting the urge to go on the lunch date because she’s afraid of the next bad thing that’s lurking around the corner, just waiting to tear them apart again if they do manage to get it together, (we’ve seen her straight up say that the thing she’s scared of is facing all the pain again). Same thing as Snow having wanted to make everything happy and safe before having a child. But eventually Snow realised that they just had to go for it, and whatever may come, they’d overcome it. And some crap did happen when they had that child, they were separated for 28 years and are still struggling to put their relationship back together somehow, but they’re working on it, and they’re getting there. Just like bad stuff happened when SF were together last time, and yeah, bad stuff will probably happen again, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t overcome it, struggle through, and come out of the other side of the trials still together, still a family.

I’d been kinda “meh” when I heard that we were gonna get even more Snowing vs Regina flashbacks, but the moral at the end of this little part of the story, it was totally saying that you’ve gotta just go for it in the name of love. And then Emma got up and was actually going to Granny’s, to see Neal. So now I’m all about loving those Snowing vs Regina flashbacks.

I don’t think Neal was being pushy. I think he honestly didn’t know how to approach things with her. He originally just wanted them to talk, just the two of them, and when she didn’t know how to react to that he brought up just sitting together and having lunch. Emma never looked annoyed with him or anything and she even gave him a little smile so I think she just wasn’t prepared to have him want to talk about things this soon. A lot of time has passed but Neal has also been waiting for a long time just to see her again much less talk to her so I can see him being nervous and unsure of himself.

Agreed. I think he handled it really well. He put himself out there, let her know that he was there, and wanted to spend time with her, but when she was wary of his intentions, he altered his approach and MADE HER SMILE. Just the other day on tumblr I saw a comment from someone about how Neal did stop fighting for her, even though he said he wouldn’t. Well, his actions in this ep disprove that anti sentiment, because he let her know that he’s still very much there for her.

My heart actually broke for both of them tonight. Seeing his face while he was sitting alone in the diner (OMG, I was in tears and am about to cry again)

I wanted to hug him so bad!!!

Personally, I don’t think the order of relationships matters on this show. They don’t seem to do things by the book, so to speak, so I’m not too worried about the Triangle of Doom and who comes first. I honestly don’t think SF is actually going to COME first right now.

I don’t think the “order” really matters either, because I really don’t think they’re writing it like a stereotypical triangle, but if you do wanna look at it in “order”, well, she kissed Hook and hasn’t shown any interest in him since, so I’d say the CS bit has come first already.

So much for no trickery lol ‘perhaps’ really Hook?! I get that his coping mechanism for his pain is to get with other girls, but I thought he would have made some development and wouldn’t have reverted back to his old ways (I am glad he didn’t though because I loved S2 Hook haha). I think we have seen the last of his ‘backing of’ if you can call it that.

As someone who is a long time Hook fan, I actually liked that they had him acting like that in this ep. I’d love some redemption for him eventually, but the recent woobification of him was starting to be a detriment to the character IMO, so I’m glad they’ve turned it around. Seeing some old school, undeniably inappropriate Hook again was actually kind of refreshing. And I can’t imagine they’re writing him in this way right now if they intend for Emma to actually fall for him, so him acting like this is a pro for SF. If they do have Emma actually fall for him, having shown him acting like this, then I’ll be annoyed, because they’ll be writing Emma as being a fool, but as long as they’re showing him to be the total opposite of who he wanted Emma to believe he was, and she doesn’t fall for it, I don’t mind.

The fake backing off, the getting drunk and hitting on Tink, the “perhaps” to try and made Emma jealous, that’s all the epitome of BAD FORM. I think (hope) that eventually he’s gonna realise that bad form doesn’t really pay off, and then hopefully we can get some genuine change towards redemption stuff happening for him. I think right now, they’re painting him with a bad brush to help shut down the triangle. Of course, CSers will still interpret this ep in a ship-able way, and I guess my own bias is colouring my interpretation too, but it just seems to me like they’re actively trying to show Hook as not even being a real contender, because he’s still kind of a douchebag.

[RumplesGirl]

KFC and Phee made great points.

I would just really like it if Emma and Neal could talk

And yes. I am once again disappointed with the CF interaction. GAH I wanted that robe mentioned.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Phee]

Also Emma is not the savior to Neal, she is just his Emma.

YES! He’s pretty much the only person she hasn’t had to play Saviour for. Instead, he’s the one who is gonna be there for her to lean on, when the rest of the world is leaning on her. They’re such a freaking perfect match, I can’t even!!!

BTW-Some CS person butted into my conversation with someone else on Twitter tonight and said that they thought CS was endgame because of the long time they’ve spent setting it up. I wasn’t about to argue with her over it but I did point out that if she doesn’t see that there’s also a set up for SF, then I don’t think we’re watching the same show. Oy vey….the Triangle of Doom has GOT to go. 🙁

*sigh* SF had groundwork being laid for it in the very first ep, because he was the reason for the Curse and she was the one destined to break it. You can’t get much more comprehensive setup than something that began in the first episode of the whole show. Just. Sayin’.

Hook didn’t seem in “whitewash” Hero Mode anymore today though. Pointing out that Neal walked out on Emma once (and really what does he know about it?) was not really a “friendly” thing to say.

Also, friendly reminder to Hook that he himself actually walked out on her in very recent history too, when he left her in a magically fortified cell in an abandoned land, to just wither away and most likely die. People in glass houses, Hook m’dear.

First–did I miss something or was there no explanation for Wendy having the robe? SOmetimes my DVR eats the first few minutes but it felt like suddenly Hook and Neal were sort-of getting along. Was it just the “I’ll back off” speech in the diner?

I was so bummed that we didn’t get a scene about Hook having kept the robe. *sigh* I guess there wasn’t really room for such a scene with the way they showed the story progressing, but they could have had it in the previous ep instead.

[Slurpeez]

The fake backing off, the getting drunk and hitting on Tink, the “perhaps” to try and made Emma jealous, that’s all the epitome of BAD FORM. I think (hope) that eventually he’s gonna realise that bad form doesn’t really pay off, and then hopefully we can get some genuine change towards redemption stuff happening for him. I think right now, they’re painting him with a bad brush to help shut down the triangle. Of course, CSers will still interpret this ep in a ship-able way, and I guess my own bias is colouring my interpretation too, but it just seems to me like they’re actively trying to show Hook as not even being a real contender, because he’s still kind of a douchebag.

Up until 3×5 I gave Hook the benefit of the doubt and thought he was genuinely trying to change his ways. And then came the “is that all your father’s life is worth to you? bit to get a kiss from Emma. That was nicely contrasted with Neal telling his dad to help Charming free-of-charge because it’s the right the to do, without any favors or deals. I think the entire whitewashing of Hook was done to show his true colors later on, as we surely saw tonight when Hook resorted to soliciting Tinkerbell for drunken sex. I’m sure that Tink and Hook have had some “fun” in the past being marooned on a deserted islands for over a century together. Yet, the way Hook was using Tink just to get to Emma really made my skin crawl, since it was shameful and disrespectful to both Emma and Tink! Yet, Hook IS a pirate, as Phee is quick to remind us. Should we really expect otherwise? This is what makes me think that if/when Emma and Hook decide to date, it will be when Emma is cursed, because then Emma wouldn’t remember the disrespectful way that Hook treats people, including her! He’s left her for dead and shot innocent people. Yeah, he helped Charming, but just to get a kiss out of it. So, I’m thinking that it’s Cursed Emma we see in plaid pants parading around with Hook in NYC. If not, then maybe Emma is just using Hook a reason not to face her feelings for Neal, because we heard her say again she’s afraid to hold onto the good moments.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I hope Neal doesn’t think that Emma doesn’t want to try because she didn’t show up for lunch, but I’m betting that’s how it will go. So while Neal “will stop bugging” her–his words–this means that Emma will hopefully openly persue him. Meaning that it becomes her choice if she wants to tell Neal that she was coming to see him. He might know that she was busy with Blue but not that she was originally on her way to see him!

Yet, the way Hook was using Tink just to get to Emma really made my skin crawl, since it was shameful and disrespectful to both Emma and Tink! Yet, Hook IS a pirate

Yes he is a pirate but I really hate that excuse. If he wanted to show that he believes in good form, man was this the wrong way to go–from drining, to asking for a quick bathroom romp, to lying to the woman he claims to love’s face. To me it goes deeper than just “he’s a pirate” (RG is still upset with Hook)

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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