Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[RumplesGirl]

1) Twice your new banner kills me. Look at those smiles!

2) Slurpeez108 wrote: On the one hand, I think the new curse could last for a good part of S3, but on the other, I hope that RG is right in saying any new curse would only last two episodes or so. That way, the new SF kiss would happen in time for the anniversary of “Manhattan.” It would also solve the issue Phee raised about SF falling in love while retaining their memories. Once they realize the emotions are still there, and then their memories are restored, then they might have the courage to face the truth of their past history together and to “do the hard thing” by giving their relationship another go.

 

I’m starting to wonder if our Manhattan idea is wrong since it would be 314 and we know that Rapunzel is going to be that episode. Unless there a lot of paralleling, I don’t know how we’d get SF endgame episode with her in it.

 

How are we gonna survive 3 months? We all got a little tense and angsty over the summer there at the end. lol

[Twice Upon A Time]

Hook was disgusting

There is no way you can justify his actions in last episode- they were distasteful and offensive to women but then I realized Captain Swan is based on deceit and lies such as Emma still doesn’t know about Milah or the deal with Pan even their first kiss was payment for a lie. While Swanfire is an open book I don’t think that their is one thing about Neal that Emma doesn’t know and its been said before that Neal knows Emma better than anyone, even her parents

 

Also side note I saw this with my shipper googles glued to my eyes

captainSWAN SWANfire

In CS hook comes first in SF Emma always comes first

[RumplesGirl]

Found another take on the Hook and Neal interaction from 310.

I’ll let you guys read it over at the writers Tumblr because of a few language things but it’s a very good read.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[angiebelle]

What I don’t understand is why some people are so much more willing to forgive Hook than Neal…Neal’s poor choices were human.  Hook’s done things that can get one thrown in prison!  I’m not saying Hook can’t be forgiven too- that would make me a hypocrite since Rumple has done far worse, and I love RumBelle….but the anger I see towards Neal just doesn’t make sense to me.  He didn’t *want* to leave Emma.  He left her because he wanted her to be reunited with her family.  Then he stayed away due to fear- and not completely irrational fear either.  He was still in love with her.  He did love Tamara, but she was really a rebound- and that love completely disappeared when he discovered she had duped him.  Even Rumple noticed that Emma and Neal both still had feelings for each other.

I just think it would be so tragic for Neal to lose Emma after all this…particularly to the same man his mother fell in love with!

[RumplesGirl]

What I don’t understand is why some people are so much more willing to forgive Hook than Neal…Neal’s poor choices were human.

Actually I think you answered your own question. I think it is because Neal’s choices are presented as very human, just like he is. Look at our villains: Rumple, Regina and Hook. They’ve all done horrible terrible things but they’ve done those things magically. Sort of outside the realm of humaness. Not many of us can relate to killing a village full of peasants while on a revenge quest. But we can relate to a time when we’ve hurt someone we love, like Neal did. He’s a reminder (a constant one) of things that we’ve done in our lives. So while I can empathsize with Rumple and how he feels unloved and unoworthy and his self hatred, I can’t grasp the killing. But I do get Neal’s self loathing for what he did to Emma because I’ve done something similar. It’s easier to forgive villains who have done big epic mythic wrongs, but it’s harder to forgive someone when they do something human.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

Word to that LunaTiger post–but for the part about Tink.  Tink’s brand of straight up no-nonsense might be good for Hook but I did not see why he would be good for her.  Especially if fairies truly cannot do their calling and have romantic love, given the SB curse analog pictured fairies as nuns.

Of course, maybe that was just how Blue saw it.  Funny side story, my now sister-in-law picked a historic Cathedral for her wedding to my husband’s brother, and I did not realize it was Episcopalian until talking to the priest and he mentioned his daughter.  I had a moment of “say what” since I was thinking of Catholic priests.  If Tink does take over as “head fairy” and has a different approach that fairies can balance their personal happiness with the duty to serve others, then that works for me.  I just want to know she gets to be a fairy again.

So a bit of another tangent, but I had a few SF thoughts seeing Frozen so I’m going to spoiler this out if you have not seen the movie.  It is an awesome movie, with funny scenes and beautiful visuals and music.

One of the plots is how Princess Ana gets engaged to someone she doesn’t really know and how that’s not true love. It isn’t even an issue in the least that she breaks up with that guy (well not in so many words  as he reveals to her he doesn’t love her so can’t kiss away the cursed ice magic, and then later on tries to kill her sister) and turns around and connects with  Christoph who supported her all along.  There’s a scene too where Olaf is saying to Ana too bad she doesn’t have anyone else who loves her like Christoph who loved her enough to leave her, then he sees him returning and says “Guess he didn’t love you enough to leave you.”

These are standard fairy-tale plot twists, the false fiance and having to leave the one you love to prove you love them or step aside.   Even if it makes one or  both unhappy, you don’t want the one you love to suffer because you’re together from some outside force.  Now that could be seen as what Hook meant to do with “backing off”, the way he did.   It also applies to Neal leaving originally, and how Emma and Neal might not give much thought to his feelings for Tamara. 

Why I don’t think Hook’s “backing off” had anything to do with what was best for Emma or Henry is the way Hook mentions that Neal left Emma once, and that he isn’t sure she’d let him back in.  The way he suggests he’s in it for the “long haul” and then turns around to proposition Tink and make Emma jealous with the “perhaps”.   If Hook only let Emma think he was pursuing Tink in order to help Neal out that would be one thing, but it did not come off that way.  He seemed to pursue Tink without knowing if Emma would see it rather than only pretending to do that to make sure she knew he was not interested in her to help out Neal.

The writers could have  had Hook say to Tink, no I am not alright.  He could have asked for her help as he truly loves Emma, but also genuinely values Neal as a friend, and he wants to help Neal have a fair shot with Emma. For that to happen, for him to feel he’s sort of taken his offer to pursue Emma off the table, he needs to convince Emma he’s interested in someone else.  Then Tink and Hook together would put on an act for a moment, and we’d all see that Hook was really trying sincerely to help get SF together even as it breaks his own heart.

That is NOT what we got.  If Tink fell for Hook because she could see how much he cared, both for Emma and Neal, then I could get on board with CaptainFairy even if it were the case Hook starts off in love with another woman, even if it might get in the way of her goal to be a fairy and get wings. It might even have swayed me to CS, because now it truly would not be Hook “stealing” Neal’s family and not caring.  He would care but it is just a cruel twist of fate for Neal (just like Snow seeing her greatest enemy raising her grandson when she and her daughter miss out on being a parent/having a parent for so long).  Messed up stuff happens in this show.

Regina really does love Henry now, but more important, he loves her. So whether or not she “deserves” to be a mother–she is one.  Emma and Snow will always have to make peace with it, and it may be that Neal has to do the same in regards to Hook being in Emma and Henry’s life.

The thing is,  Emma’s reaction to the “perhaps” did not come off to me as really jealous or heartbroken but more like “Seriously?”  Her kiss with Hook she called out as meaningless, and the dialog felt that way too.  “You couldn’t handle it”.  That is the same phrase Rumple used when baiting Cinderella to make a deal.

Rumpelstiltskin: Then change it. You can’t handle this.

(Rumpelstiltskin turns to leave.)

Cinderella: Wait. Please, wait. I can handle it. Please. I will do anything to get out of here. Anything.

This was Rumple manipulating a desperate soul for his own ends.  I don’t agree that Hook manipulated Emma so openly here, as she did not have much to gain out of kissing him in quite that way.  He did hide the fact that her father wasn’t really “saved” and did hint for more than just a handshake and heartfelt thanks.  Yet he didn’t force her to the extent of saying he would not continue helping them or anything like that.  So one can argue he was just being flirty, not expecting she’d take him up on it, perhaps even doing it so she would stop asking questions to protect the secret as David asked.  I don’t think so, as I thought Hook had that exact scenario in mind when he set out to save David.

In any case, she isn’t even sure why she did it, she says, because she says she didn’t know, and was feeling good and had been awhile.  Hook on the other hand, wanted to kiss her because he wanted to kiss her, then he realized just how deeply that affected him.

So I don’t think he was being as crassly piratey with Emma as he was in the scene with Tink.  I do think however there is something to Hook sometimes pretending to feel something, then actually ending up feeling it as a character trait.

He did that with Bae.  He pretended to care for the boy in order to manipulate his emotions into revealing the secret to killing the Dark One.  Then he sort of “fell” for Bae as a son-figure.  He genuinely wanted to be a family with him, up until Bae rejected him for having lied and generally being the one who (in Bae’s opinion) “tore his family apart”.  I do think Rumple and Milah’s situation was a bit more complicated than it being entirely Hook’s fault, but all the same, Hook responded to Bae’s rejection horribly.  So it belies whatever genuine emotion he might have felt a bit earlier and is why I feel so let down by the writing.

Does Hook want revenge on Bae or is he really just conflicted about how this is all playing out, in a situation he would never have wanted? The way Hook acted at the Echo Cave made me think that a little.  After all, if his secret was that that the kiss revealed to him he could move on from Milah because of Emma, that would mean he never wanted to tell that to Emma.  He didn’t want to have that be true.  So that’s genuine internal conflict, not nasty pirate who doesn’t care if he’s hurting the boy he once cared about or even deliberately setting out to hurt him.

Then we go to pirate lurking on their conversation, so it seems more like nasty pirate, then coupled with his words about a “dalliance”.  Again, maybe Neal overreacted, assuming that Hook was needling him when Hook was trying to be serious (but perhaps putting it the wrong way).

I’m just doubtful with all the “Hook the Hero” theme that the writers actually intended Hook to seem manipulative, even though that is how I’m inclined to interpret his scenes with Neal.  Instead, maybe they think they’re writing Hook as believably showing a pirate’s version of honor, stepping back, saving his friend, but conflicted out of a genuine romantic connection to Emma.  Meanwhile she’s conflicted as she doesn’t want to hurt Neal but she just doesn’t want him because she’s fallen for Hook.

It could be the story, but it is not one that appeals to me right now as I do not have as much sympathy for Hook or conviction that he will make Emma happy when he acts so juvenile and sullen about not getting her attention. Emma needs someone who can understand her walls and the pressure on her,even if she were not the savior, she’d still be a mother with a very difficult co-parenting situation.    I’m just not sure they’ve written Hook as the kind of guy to “get” that given his history with Milah.

Even if it came from Milah to run off that way, the fact is, he is the one who told Rumple to tell his son his father was a coward.  That is how little Hook cared about the effect on Milah’s son.  Now backing for Henry’s sake could show growth but as Phee said , saying in the same scene that he’s stepping back for Henry but then implying Neal doesn’t really have a chance, just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Slurpeez]

I actually think the triangle of doom will last straight until the final episode of the season when it will be abundantly clear as to who Emma chooses. I firmly believe we will be getting CS pretty soon. They are each others transitional relationship. … And he’s going to be Emma’s Tamara (minus the whole evil agenda).

Yep, Emma is running. It’s what she does right before she finally sees the light. Remember in S1 how Emma said she was not a mother. Later, after she came to love Henry, she told August she didn’t want everybody to need her. She then tried to up and kidnap Henry from SB, but Henry took matters into his own hands to help his mom fulfill her destiny as the savior. That is when Emma believed. She might not have been ready, but she really didn’t have another choice. We saw a parallel in S2 with Neal not being ready to face Emma again after she broke the curse. Neal told August he didn’t think Emma would want to see him again. That is why Neal pursued things with Tamara (well, actually she planned it that way), but Neal allowed his fear of possibly being rejected by Emma to overcome his belief in his love for Emma. Now Neal IS ready though, and he’s trying to make amends by being there for her and Henry, but still letting Emma make up her mind about what she wants. Neal is putting his heart on the line by risking rejection, because he now believes in the power of their love. That shows real character growth for Neal as far as believing in his love for Emma. Now Emma is doing the same exact thing that Neal did in S2 and and what she herself did in S1: running. Like you observed, Emma told her dad she isn’t ready. Yet, that also implies that one day, she will be ready to believe in hope for a happy ending with Neal. Emma needs to catch up in her own personal development to be at the same place Neal is at. And when she does, Neal will be waiting patiently for her.

And like Neal and Emma’s opening scene in 2×1 where the hope for possibilities of having that happy ending was finally within their grasp to their final scene in 2×21 where they declared their love had never died only to be ripped away a moment later. Seeing Adam and Eddy looove their parallels I think we will be getting another reversal from the opener with Emma in the hospital crying because she was alone, in jail, without neal and believing she couldn’t be a mother paired with Neal alone in another realm, without Emma, and fighting to get back to his family. I think her little confession about not believing she was ready followed by Charming’s line was prophetic given who she was disclosing her fears towards.

 Yes, we’re looking at the bigger picture here.

Seriously, just how much couples have Snowing actually played match maker to?

Snow and Charming see the love that Emma bears for Neal and identify it. They’re trying to instill hope into Emma. They know true love when they see it, because they’ve lived it. The wonderful thing about Neal and Emma’s love is that when they finally do get together again, they’ll have the blessing of both sets of parents: Snow, Charming and Rumple. They’ll also have the joy of seeing their son, Henry, gets his happy ending when he sees his parents not only still love each other but chose to be together for their own sakes. That is a phrase that Snow White keeps repeating to her daughter, that Emma owed it to herself, not to Henry or to Neal, to see if Neal were still alive and then again if meeting Neal again for lunch could be the start of her own happy ending. Snow recognizes in her daughter the same fear that she herself used to have, that all the bad things would forever get in the way of good things. Yet, just as Snow had to realize that it’s worth it to hold onto the good moments, so will Emma have to come to that realization on her own. And when she does, that is when Emma will be ready to have hope for her own happy ending. Emma has to believe she deserves the luxury of taking a day off, to believe that even the Savior might need a prince of her own. And we all know whom Emma said she needs: Neal, the love of her life.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I actually think the triangle of doom will last straight until the final episode of the season when it will be abundantly clear as to who Emma chooses. I firmly believe we will be getting CS pretty soon. They are each others transitional relationship. After hundreds of years she has given him a buffer outside of seeking revenge (talk about pressure) and is opening up his vulnerability to the possibilities that love can exist after Milah, friendships can be mended and formed, and he can be the hero who yearns to have good form. Similar to what her relationship with Graham could have been had he lived. And he’s going to be Emma’s Tamara (minus the whole evil agenda). You are already seeing it with her wearing her armor for the first time in over a season right after her discussion with Neal (hello red jacket, we’ve missed you). Disclosing both to Neal and her father that she is running away from her happy ending (thank you Snow) because she is afraid and isn’t ready.

Some excellent points, especially about the red jacket. It’s her armor, her protective shield. She’s already admitted that she’s scared of her feelings for Neal and everything they went through but after 306, she managed to hold those feelings in a different part of her brain because Henry. Then Neal comes and wants to actually discuss said feelings and Emma realizes she still isn’t ready. So, armor on!

Love the parallel about Tamara.

If Hook only let Emma think he was pursuing Tink in order to help Neal out that would be one thing, but it did not come off that way. He seemed to pursue Tink without knowing if Emma would see it rather than only pretending to do that to make sure she knew he was not interested in her to help out Neal.

That’s a good point. So he was willing to drown his sorrows in a variety of methods because what Emma doesn’t know can’t hurt her but the second he realizes she may know, he uses it to his advantage.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[WickedRegal]

The tears!!! And The Feels from this video!!! Swanfire!!!!!!!!

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[RumplesGirl]

Lovely video!!! <3

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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