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Maybe discipline isn’t the right word, but Hook still shouldn’t be speaking that way to Emma and Regina’s son.
Yeah that’s fair.
[adrotate group="5"]I suppose we shouldn’t be that surprised by Hook’s mistreatment of Henry (I’m not all that surprised, although I’m appalled to the continuation of this icky, semi-incestuous dynamic after Emma has learned Hook was the lover of Henry’s grandmother). Hook was never a good father figure to Baelfire either, what with his running off with Milha and also then vindictively handing Bae over to the Lost Boys–all because teenage Bae had the audacity to call Hook on helping Milha abandon him. If only Emma knew that hidden detail of Hook’s illustrious past with the father of her son. Remember Hook’s line to Emma: “we spent time together,” yet he never gave any juicy details. Would it make her think twice before making this pirate (who was creepily also Neal’s de facto step-dad) the step-father of Henry? *sigh*
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I suppose we shouldn’t be that surprised by Hook’s mistreatment of Henry
And of course let’s not forget the valuable lessons Hook passes on to Henry in s3; that winning is all that matters, even if you have to cheat and swindle.
And yes, yes. I know: pirate. But he’s supposedly reformed and wants to be a contributing mentor to the family, and even aspires to be part of said family
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Other than giving Baelfire up to the lost boys, I was under the impression we were supposed to think Hook was a good mentor for him.
Other than giving Baelfire up to the lost boys, I was under the impression we were supposed to think Hook was a good mentor for him.
I think your first statement answers the overall question, though. At least to an extent. Can you be a good mentor if you sell your ward to the figure you’ll later call a “blood thirsty demon”? That incident isn’t just a accidental miscalculation in judgement; it’s a life altering decision that deeply traumatized and affected the first party and showed the true colors of the second.
On the one hand, I agree that there was a genuine affection between Hook and Bae. “The things we do for our children” speaks volumes to me. He was Bae’s step father in all the ways that matter. But at the same time, I have a hard time saying “he was a good father figure EXCEPT FOR” as if the final outcome (selling Bae) doesn’t totally undermine whatever good mentoring there was in the beginning.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Yeah I agree. Absolutely. I just remember thinking that the scene where he did give Bae up seemed hard on Hook as well, and didn’t Hook even get cold feet at the last second and try and not give Bae away? I could be way wrong about this, but at the very least, I remember Hook not loving that he did that. And yeah, like even Bae acknowledged in the present that Hook meant a lot to him, I thought. Could be wrong there as well.
Yeah I agree. Absolutely. I just remember thinking that the scene where he did give Bae up seemed hard on Hook as well, and didn’t Hook even get cold feet at the last second and try and not give Bae away? I could be way wrong about this, but at the very least, I remember Hook not loving that he did that. And yeah, like even Bae acknowledged in the present that Hook meant a lot to him, I thought. Could be wrong there as well.
Yes, Hook told Bae that it wasn’t too late and if he played by Hook’s rules, Hook would take him back.
Here’s the thing: Hook’s the adult. Hook should act like it. Teens are moody and Bae has literally been through more in his short life than most people experience over several lifetimes. We’re back to Hook’s emotional age and his sensitivity. Bae won’t play by Hook’s rules, so Hook sells his “son” to Pan. I mean, I got angry with my mom a lot when I was a teen. She didn’t kick me out of the house or give me up for adoption. And in this case, Hook feeling bad means nothing to me when Bae was sleeping in a cave, drawing pictures of home and hand letting him go by coconut-light, feeling rejected, alone, abandoned for 100+ years.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Here’s the thing: Hook’s the adult. Hook should act like it. Teens are moody and Bae has literally been through more in his short life than most people experience over several lifetimes. We’re back to Hook’s emotional age and his sensitivity. Bae won’t play by Hook’s rules, so Hook sells his “son” to Pan. I mean, I got angry with my mom a lot when I was a teen. She didn’t kick me out of the house or give me up for adoption. And in this case, Hook feeling bad means nothing to me when Bae was sleeping in a cave, drawing pictures of home and hand letting him go by coconut-light, feeling rejected, alone, abandoned for 100+ years.
Didn’t Pan have something over him though? Or did Pan say he would let Hook leave or something. I remember thinking although Bae acted out, Hook sort of reluctantly did it to help himself and free him from Neverland. Selfish yes. But at least it wasn’t just because of a teen rebellious moment. But again, my memory is pretty foggy around this timeline for some reason.
A sarcastic comment followed by a legitimate question turns into disciplining. My goodness.
Let me put it a different way. I am taking “discipline” in its broader sense, as a form of power aimed at changing someone else’s behavior. Sarcastic commentary certainly can act this way, especially if there’s already a power differential at play. If I’m your boss, and you are my employee, and I make a sarcastic comment about what I consider your poor performance, that’s a form of disciplining. Your colleagues around the cooler will agree that I’m being a jerk, but there’s nothing you can do – I’m the boss. Similarly, a teacher or professor might make a sarcastic comment about a student’s performance — though, arguably, they shouldn’t — in order to highlight its poor quality or to put the student “in their place.” Similarly, a parent might chose sarcasm, over, say, yelling or punishment — as a form of discipline.
My point was that Hook is an adult, so he is already in a position of power in relation to Henry. However, he is not Henry’s parent — or teacher, or boss, or, really, mentor. He’s there on Emma’s behalf, and on the sufferance of everyone else. Notice, for example, that Hook is the only non-parent in the group. When I say that Hook acts like a frat boy, I mean to say that out of the entire room of assorted heroes and villains, he is the only one who is essentially a 20-something entitled white dude, who’s so far only lived for himself. He doesn’t have children, he doesn’t seem to have a goal or a sense of direction beyond what’s so far been dictated by his hormones, he has never had to sacrifice his own goals/interests/desires for the sake of someone else. He’s self-absorbed and preoccupied with his own sense of identity. Most of the other main characters on the show have by and large grown out of this phase.
A sarcastic comment followed by a legitimate question turns into disciplining. My goodness.
Let me put it a different way. I am taking “discipline” in its broader sense, as a form of power aimed at changing someone else’s behavior. Sarcastic commentary certainly can act this way, especially if there’s already a power differential at play. If I’m your boss, and you are my employee, and I make a sarcastic comment about what I consider your poor performance, that’s a form of disciplining. Your colleagues around the cooler will agree that I’m being a jerk, but there’s nothing you can do – I’m the boss. Similarly, a teacher or professor might make a sarcastic comment about a student’s performance — though, arguably, they shouldn’t — in order to highlight its poor quality or to put the student “in their place.” Similarly, a parent might chose sarcasm, over, say, yelling or punishment — as a form of discipline. My point was that Hook is an adult, so he is already in a position of power in relation to Henry. However, he is not Henry’s parent — or teacher, or boss, or, really, mentor. He’s there on Emma’s behalf, and on the sufferance of everyone else. Notice, for example, that Hook is the only non-parent in the group. When I say that Hook acts like a frat boy, I mean to say that out of the entire room of assorted heroes and villains, he is the only one who is essentially a 20-something entitled white dude, who’s so far only lived for himself. He doesn’t have children, he doesn’t seem to have a goal or a sense of direction beyond what’s so far been dictated by his hormones, he has never had to sacrifice his own goals/interests/desires for the sake of someone else. He’s self-absorbed and preoccupied with his own sense of identity. Most of the other main characters on the show have by and large grown out of this phase.
I guess agree to disagree. I mean, sure, certain people will use sarcasm to point out someone else’s deficiencies. Whether that is “disciplining” is just something I’m not sure I agree with. I use sarcasm all the time. Most of the time, to just be funny. But when I do use it to “make fun” of something or someone, I’m not really “punishing” them. If anything, I’m pointing out something they may not have seen, and instead of straight up telling them, I’m using humor instead. In this case, I honestly feel like Hook and everyone else were expecting something completely different based on what Henry said he would do. So when Hook says things like “a riveting story,” that’s his way of saying ok, lovely tail about the Charmings, but what happened to defeating Hades? It didn’t feel like he was “disciplining” Henry at all, even in the broadest sense I can think of. I don’t think he was doing it for power, or doing it to try and change Henry’s behavior. It was just a sarcastic comment, that simple.
Now no one else said anything because they are all adults and Hook still acts like a child sometimes. So I absolutely agree there. However, even though he is not related to Henry, I didn’t feel like Hook was really out of line here. These two know each other very well and he’s been dating his mom for awhile now too. And while it was a tad much on Hook’s part (he could have simply asked what happened to defeating Hades without the snark), he did say what he said, and he did put Henry down a bit, even though I don’t think he intentionally meant to do that and I think that’s just his character. But like, I still stand by Hook not knowing the whole situation that Henry failed to tell them about the blackouts and how he didn’t even write that. But Hook just saying it at all, does certainly say something about his character as opposed to everyone else.
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