Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[Slurpeez]

If Emma goes into a relationship not knowing everything I am going to be very frustrated.

Same here! Nevertheless, if Emma is running from her feelings for Neal by dating Hook, it would would exactly parallel how Neal ran from his fear of rejection from Emma by pursuing Tamara instead. Neal’s fear might’ve been so in overdrive that he allowed himself to fall for Tamara’s trickery (though in his defense, Tamara probably played the perfect girlfriend role to a tee). In Emma’s case, she probably sees a dalliance with Hook more as an “escape from reality,”  which as of late has included Neverland, the new curse, her overwhelming feelings for Neal, her fear of losing Neal again, or her duty as the “savior.” Hook represents an easy out for Emma. She even said to Neal it would’ve been easier for her if he had died rather than to face all of the old emotions again. That implies that choosing Neal would be the hard thing to do, but as Snow said to Ariel in 3×6, doing the hard thing of opening oneself up to love is so worth it, because then you allow for true love to enter in. The good thing about this happening now would be Emma realizing Hook is wrong for her, and  it eventually would shut the door on CS forever.

Also, there is the entire new curse thing to look forward to (*sarcasm*), but at least Emma having a fake identity might explain her sudden lapse in judgement for letting herself fall for Hook’s advances. The curse seems to like to pair people together who otherwise wouldn’t be right for each other (e.g. David and Kathryn). If that is where the direction of the second half of S3 is headed, I wouldn’t be excited for this, but at least I’d understand any further CS development. It would also give me hope that Emma really is destined for Neal, just as we all had faith David Nolan really was destined for Mary Margaret, despite them being cursed.

It’s not even that I’m sure it will make a difference to her. But it’s about fairness. She should know the history of the man she’s dating. All of it. I don’t get it cause JMo once tweeted during a live viewing session when asked if Emma would ever learn about Milah/Bae/Neverland stuff “stay tuned!” (or something like that) which to me implied that she’d learn soon. And that tweet was back in about 305 or 306. It needs to not be swept under the rug like they appear to be doing with CaptainFire history.

I hear you, really I do, and I totally share in your frustration. But, there are a lot of reasons why sometimes a person lets herself fall for the wrong person, despite seeing the warning signs. Speaking from personal experience, I know what it is to fall for the wrong person, despite seeing the writing on the wall. I just kept ignoring the red flags, because I liked the feeling of being desired. It can be overwhelming when you’re attracted to the wrong person, because it feels good to be wanted. It’s a very human thing, but that type of thinking can be shallow, and very sadly, quite fleeting. I can also speak from experience of having met the right person, by contrast. They way my husband treats me is the difference of night and day from how my old flame treated me, and I can say that a real man of honor does not do to women the things that Hook does to women.

[RumplesGirl]

Is it Sunday yet?

I need this episode now. (except now cause then there is three months without anything in which we all go nuts)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

Yes, we will, but the timeline will finally be fully updated. (At some point.)

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

I hear you, really I do, and I totally share in your frustration. But, there are a lot of reasons why sometimes a person lets herself fall for the wrong person, despite seeing the warning signs. Speaking from personal experience, I know what it is to fall for the wrong person, despite seeing the writing on the wall. I just kept ignoring the red flags, because I liked the feeling of being desired. It can be overwhelming when you’re attracted to the wrong person, because it feels good to be wanted. It’s a very human thing, but that type of thinking can be shallow, and very sadly, quite fleeting. I can also speak from experience of having met the right person, by contrast. They way my husband treats me is the difference of night and day from how my old flame treated me, and I can say that a real man of honor does not do to women the things that Hook does to women.

Thanks for sharing. I do know what you mean. Thank goodness for our safe haven. I know we’re gonna need it.

Yes, we will, but the timeline will finally be fully updated. (At some point.)

Yes cause the Tword never makes people nutty.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

I was nutty before the TL, RG, and I’ll be nutty after it’s all over and there’s nothing left to TL.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[heatherc1275]

Slightly off topic (but sort of relevant since we were all just talking about Photoshop) but here’s an article I just found on Yahoo that I couldn’t wait to post here. Perhaps all those Oncers out there who seem totally preoccupied with the looks of people on TV or in magazines (*cough Hook cough*) should take some of this to heart and start seeing the show through the actions and writing instead of the superficial stuff.

Article: http://shine.yahoo.com/shine-beauty/photographer-examines-obsession-beauty-airbrushing-215000262.html#

 

#MoreBOOMLessGloom

[heatherc1275]

RumplesGirl wrote: If Emma goes into a relationship not knowing everything I am going to be very frustrated.

Same here! Nevertheless, if Emma is running from her feelings for Neal by dating Hook, it would would exactly parallel how Neal ran from his fear of rejection from Emma by pursuing Tamara instead. Neal’s fear might’ve been so in overdrive that he allowed himself to fall for Tamara’s trickery (though in his defense, Tamara probably played the perfect girlfriend role to a tee). In Emma’s case, she probably sees a dalliance with Hook more as an “escape from reality,” which as of late has included Neverland, the new curse, her overwhelming feelings for Neal, her fear of losing Neal again, or her duty as the “savior.” Hook represents an easy out for Emma. She even said to Neal it would’ve been easier for her if he had died rather than to face all of the old emotions again. That implies that choosing Neal would be the hard thing to do, but as Snow said to Ariel in 3×6, doing the hard thing of opening oneself up to love is so worth it, because then you allow for true love to enter in. The good thing about this happening now would be Emma realizing Hook is wrong for her, and it eventually would shut the door on CS forever. Also, there is the entire new curse thing to look forward to (*sarcasm*), but at least Emma having a fake identity might explain her sudden lapse in judgement for letting herself fall for Hook’s advances. The curse seems to like to pair people together who otherwise wouldn’t be right for each other (e.g. David and Kathryn). If that is where the direction of the second half of S3 is headed, I wouldn’t be excited for this, but at least I’d understand any further CS development. It would also give me hope that Emma really is destined for Neal, just as we all had faith David Nolan really was destined for Mary Margaret, despite them being cursed.

It’s not even that I’m sure it will make a difference to her. But it’s about fairness. She should know the history of the man she’s dating. All of it. I don’t get it cause JMo once tweeted during a live viewing session when asked if Emma would ever learn about Milah/Bae/Neverland stuff “stay tuned!” (or something like that) which to me implied that she’d learn soon. And that tweet was back in about 305 or 306. It needs to not be swept under the rug like they appear to be doing with CaptainFire history.

I hear you, really I do, and I totally share in your frustration. But, there are a lot of reasons why sometimes a person lets herself fall for the wrong person, despite seeing the warning signs. Speaking from personal experience, I know what it is to fall for the wrong person, despite seeing the writing on the wall. I just kept ignoring the red flags, because I liked the feeling of being desired. It can be overwhelming when you’re attracted to the wrong person, because it feels good to be wanted. It’s a very human thing, but that type of thinking can be shallow, and very sadly, quite fleeting. I can also speak from experience of having met the right person, by contrast. They way my husband treats me is the difference of night and day from how my old flame treated me, and I can say that a real man of honor does not do to women the things that Hook does to women.

ITA about Emma running away from everything and thanks for sharing your personal experience here. It’s amazing how this mostly fairy tale television show can still hit you on a personal level with some things they show on it. I think there’s always at least one thing on OUAT that people can relate to and that’s the mark of an enjoyable show IMO. I’m really glad you were able to find your prince! 🙂

#MoreBOOMLessGloom

[RumplesGirl]

It’s amazing how this mostly fairy tale television show can still hit you on a personal level with some things they show on it. I think there’s always at least one thing on OUAT that people can relate to and that’s the mark of an enjoyable show IMO. I’m really glad you were able to find your prince!

The writers have done a great job of making these mythic beings into real people with whom you can easily relate. I personally relate most to Rumple and Neal, Emma’s in third place for “RG most relates to….” And likewise Hook reminds me of someone from my past I’d really never think about at all. I said this maybe last night in chat but love you who love and don’t like what you don’t like. It’s all personal and subjective. It has nothing to do with how the writers are writing. They don’t write the characters differently for different people. It’s how we view them. All interpretation is interpretation until the end.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[astrawoid]

Okay. Some thoughts I had last night…

I have a hard time with the argument that Hook has been intended for Emma from the start because of so many symbols and foreshadowing and yada yada yada, since the beginning. First of all, I have never seen all these things that other people apparently see or I just don’t put as much stock in them (like the pirate doll in the Emma’s nursery – just a nod to Hook, not a “omg, that means they are meant to be”). Secondly, I didn’t think A and E even knew that they were going to be able to have Hook in the show until much later.

So why would they have intended Emma’s true love to be a character that they didn’t even know they were going to get the rights too? If they never got the rights to Peter Pan, would Emma not have had a true love then (other than Henry, of course)?

But Emma, Neal (Baelfire), and Henry were all original characters that they could do anything with and had a plan for from the beginning and could make them any way they wanted. I think they wanted to tell their version of a modern day love story that wasn’t constrained by being a typical fairytale. If you are trying to create something new, then why would you use a character that is already a well-known and established character?

I think, A and E also said that Emma and Neal’s story was poetic in that it was a story about the one to break the curse and the one who the curse was made to find. I really don’t understand how someone could look at their story and not see this. It’s just so perfect. It makes complete sense. And why have them come together but not intend for them to be each other’s true love? I don’t understand that either.

Now, I’m not saying that either one is perfect or hasn’t made mistakes. But that’s what makes it unique and tragic and suppose to make you root for them. It’s more human than fairytale. It’s a REAL love story that requires forgiveness and understanding and shows how love CAN conquer anything, even seeming betrayal and fear. And there doesn’t need to be parallels to any of the true love couple’s in the show because it is its own story and NOT a fairytale.

I think, love in our world is different than fairytale love. In Fairytale Land, you know true love right away but here, it’s not always that easy, especially if you’ve grown up not really knowing what that is. So it would be easy to not put faith in it and run away or shy from it. But that doesn’t mean it’s not true love. Instead, it’s a hard earned love. It’s a love that lasts even when you don’t know it’s there. It’s a love that sometimes you might lose faith in, but it never goes away.

Just because Neal let Emma go (or ran away or however you want to look at it) doesn’t mean it’s not true love. You don’t choose true love, you don’t get to decide if it is or isn’t true love. If it’s true, then that’s that. I despise the argument that if Neal and Emma’s love was true then, Neal could have never left Emma because it would have killed him or left a hole in him. Isn’t that what we have been seeing? They have loved each other for over a decade and never had been able to have real relationships because something was always missing.

Emma and Neal both don’t even know how to deal with love because neither one had any relationships prior to theirs that really showed them what it was suppose to be. In both cases, the people that were suppose to love them abandoned them, so is it really that far-fetched of an idea to see that happening in their own relationship? Rumple abandoned Bae when he was a child, but no one questions whether Rumple loves him now. Snow and Charming abandoned newborn Emma to world that they knew nothing about and yet again no one denies that they love Emma. But Neal leaves Emma so that she can fulfill her destiny and he is vilified and said that he couldn’t have possibly really truly loved her. It seems like a double-standard to me.

And the other thing that irks me is how people blame Neal for Emma giving birth in prison. Come on. Had he known that Emma was pregnant, I am 10000000000% sure he would have said screw August and the savior stuff and never let Emma be alone or go to jail or would have turned himself in so that she could be free. But he didn’t know, and to blame him for Emma giving birth chained to a bed is ridiculous. Knowing Bae and knowing Neal, how could anyone really think he would knowingly allow Emma to be put in that position? It boggles my mind.

Of course, I don’t know if Neal knew that Emma was going to be arrested at first, but once it was done, I think he was convinced by August to do nothing about it since she had yet to fulfill her role as the savior. I’m also really astounded that people still believe that Emma going to jail was unnecessary. Um, that was the only way to guarantee that Emma would give up Henry. In any other situation, she wouldn’t have given him up. Even if Neal was out of the picture but Emma wasn’t in jail, why would she have given him up? If anything, she would have held on tighter to Henry because that’s all she would have thought she had. But by being in jail, she saw that she couldn’t offer him anything at that time, so she did what she thought was the best for him and what would give him his best chance.

"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."

[RumplesGirl]

I have a hard time with the argument that Hook has been intended for Emma from the start because of so many symbols and foreshadowing and yada yada yada, since the beginning. First of all, I have never seen all these things that other people apparently see or I just don’t put as much stock in them (like the pirate doll in the Emma’s nursery – just a nod to Hook, not a “omg, that means they are meant to be”). Secondly, I didn’t think A and E even knew that they were going to be able to have Hook in the show until much later.

They never knew they could get the rights to PP. Getting the rights to PP is notoriously hard. They wanted them but they didn’t need the PP story in order to begin their show, in other words.

But Emma, Neal (Baelfire), and Henry were all original characters that they could do anything with and had a plan for from the beginning and could make them any way they wanted. I think they wanted to tell their version of a modern day love story that wasn’t constrained by being a typical fairytale. If you are trying to create something new, then why would you use a character that is already a well-known and established character?

Yes!

I think, A and E also said that Emma and Neal’s story was poetic in that it was a story about the one to break the curse and the one who the curse was made to find. I really don’t understand how someone could look at their story and not see this. It’s just so perfect. It makes complete sense. And why have them come together but not intend for them to be each other’s true love? I don’t understand that either. Now, I’m not saying that either one is perfect or hasn’t made mistakes. But that’s what makes it unique and tragic and suppose to make you root for them. It’s more human than fairytale. It’s a REAL love story that requires forgiveness and understanding and shows how love CAN conquer anything, even seeming betrayal and fear. And there doesn’t need to be parallels to any of the true love couple’s in the show because it is its own story and NOT a fairytale.

Yes again

Just because Neal let Emma go (or ran away or however you want to look at it) doesn’t mean it’s not true love. You don’t choose true love, you don’t get to decide if it is or isn’t true love. If it’s true, then that’s that. I despise the argument that if Neal and Emma’s love was true then, Neal could have never left Emma because it would have killed him or left a hole in him. Isn’t that what we have been seeing? They have loved each other for over a decade and never had been able to have real relationships because something was always missing.

Exhibit A: Rumbelle. He kicked Belle out because of how scared he was. Not only at losing his power but really because he didn’t think anyone could ever truly love him. Neal never thought Emma could ever really forgive him so he clung to his fear instead. He is his fathers son.

And the other thing that irks me is how people blame Neal for Emma giving birth in prison. Come on. Had he known that Emma was pregnant, I am 10000000000% sure he would have said screw August and the savior stuff and never let Emma be alone or go to jail or would have turned himself in so that she could be free. But he didn’t know, and to blame him for Emma giving birth chained to a bed is ridiculous. Knowing Bae and knowing Neal, how could anyone really think he would knowingly allow Emma to be put in that position? It boggles my mind

I absolutely agree.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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