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So much negativity against writers and the show as a whole. Oh lard!  😉 … No worries though.. im only pointing it out..
I agree as far as the writing for Once is not always great and that it is very flawed at times, but I believe the writers care for their own show and that they WANT the fans to like it, because they want to give the fans a GOOD story (what they themselves consider good) and not just because they want to make big money (though Im sure that is also very nice).
In one interview I saw with A and E, they talked about how awsome they thought the fans of Once was and that they were surprised to see how the fanbase of Once had evolved. They talked about how awesome it was to see how the fans cared about eachother and that this was the best thing that had come from the show- the fact that it brought people together—That to me shows they care. In my opinion they are just two Nerds with Big Hearts (Adam and Eddy, I havent seen any interviews with the other writers)
I don’t like everything they do with the show, but its their story to tell. No matter what way they tell it there will always be fans that would want it different. You cant as a writer change your story everytime it gets critiqued by fans. If I was a writer one Once I wouldn’t change the story after what the fans thought, because they think so many different things, Im sure I would listen to critique from other writers and storytellers or such, but not fans. We cant know if A and E listens to critique from whatever their sources are.
Im not trying to change anybody’s mind by writing this, its just my opinion. I believe the writers care for the fans and that they care about what happens in their own show… why would they want to spend this many years on something they were not passionate about? But its alright if you don’t think so, you are allowed whatever your opinion is 🙂 I just say that because sometimes people on some forums will get upset whenever I don’t agree with them.
[adrotate group="5"]The problem is that it is not their story, not anymore. Adam and Eddy did change their show because of the fans. They intended to do swanfire. They pitched the show to Jennifer, before she signed on, before the pilot was filmed, they pitched Jennifer Morrison swanfire. That is fact.
Then in Season 2 something happened, the ABC execs interfered, that is fact stated by Adam and Eddy. The execs wanted more of Hook because he was attractive. Then the media got involved, asked about Hook, maybe because ABC was talking about him. Hook was never supposed to be on this show long term. All of the build in Season 1 and 2, all of the hints, were for swanfire. There was no captain swan in Season 2 and obviously not in Season 1. All of the set up for the show that Adam and Eddy created, their story was swanfire.
Also, bad writing is not based on whether or not i like what happened. It is based on whether or not the show satisfies the narrative build, whether or not the characters remain consistent, whether or not what the characters do is what they would actually do, whether or not the characters decisions based on who they are as people is what is pushing the story forward, whether or not the characters actually behave in ways that real mothers, wives, children would behave, and whether or not what is happening is consistent within the rules of the world the writers have created. This show fails all of those things. What happens on this show is inconsistent and random and that is why it is badly written.
There are things on this show that i like that are really badly written. I really like Emma and Regina’s friendship. It is terribly written and it makes no sense at all that they would be friends, but i like it. I don’t have a problem with anyone liking any part of what happens on this show. I just do think that it is badly written, because what happens is illogical and inconsistent.
I think we can all agree that we’re all fans of Once (or at least fans of the way it used to be). I think there is a sense of disappointment amongst many dedicated fans, and not just those who liked Neal or wanted Emma to end up with him. Many fans, including fans of Emma, Rumple, Belle, Robin Hood, and even Snow and Charming are sad. I think a lot of fans are disappointed with the way recent seasons have unfolded.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I don’t understand how you can closely watch the show and not see that the last two half seasons have been waaaaaaaaaaay better than season 4 and the dark swan arc of season 5. Â Since then, I think the show has done a much better job overall. Â But that’s just my opinion.
My issue is if you hate all these things about the show, why do you watch it? Â Some people on here have literally nothing nice to say about the show, ever. Â It makes zero sense to me.
And as far as Emma and Hook go….just because you may think it has been written poorly and isn’t true love and has been unhealthy for Emma, doesn’t mean that’s what A&E think. Â The show has never wanted us to think that. Â They defend this relationship all the time. Â And for them to just all of a sudden, have Emma come to a realization that it is not working out (even though she has never really said that she has ever felt that way even when Hook was the DO), wouldn’t make a lick of sense.
And it’s true, they did switch up their story to incorporate Hook more.  They got push back from abc as you guys say above.  So then how is that A&E’s fault?  Maybe they didn’t have a choice.  You don’t really know.  And I think it’s extremely ignorant and asinine to say they don’t care about their fans.  Like, come on.  Let’s be real here.  There’s a difference between not understanding them or not being able to engage and communicate well with them vs. simply not caring.  Lets not just spew hate for the sake of it.  If you disagree where they have taken the show, then fine (I will argue the show has gone back to it’s roots especially in this season), but the writers are trying to tell a flat story that is years beyond its expiration date and that can’t be easy and to say they just don’t care really isn’t fair.
My issue is if you hate all these things about the show, why do you watch it? Some people on here have literally nothing nice to say about the show, ever. It makes zero sense to me.
Most of us have invested six long years with this show…have been here since the season 1 premiere. And we figure that since we’ve stuck it out this long, we might as well ride it out till the end. Let’s be honest, OUAT has at the most, one last season to give…leaving it when the show is already this close to the finish line would make all the time invested so far, a total waste. Might as well see how the story ends.
Like, come on. Let’s be real here. There’s a difference between not understanding them or not being able to engage and communicate well with them vs. simply not caring. Lets not just spew hate for the sake of it. If you disagree where they have taken the show, then fine (I will argue the show has gone back to it’s roots especially in this season), but the writers are trying to tell a flat story that is years beyond its expiration date and that can’t be easy and to say they just don’t care really isn’t fair.
Hmmm…whenever I try to give Adam & Eddy the benefit of the doubt, I remember the classic words Mister Kitsis once spoke: “I sleep well and I drink your tears.”
Horowitz & Kitsis care about the fans to an extent….I think they want to believe, or rather have possibly deluded themselves into believing they have this mega united fandom, but fail to realize that due to constant changing of their “vision” as well as continuous baiting, failed plot lines, and certain ideas that shouldn’t be mentioned….they have torn the OUAT Fandom apart and ignited a civil war which rivals that of even the most toxic fandoms.
You praise their work, you’re good. You call them out on their work, you’re either ignored or responded with a snarky comment. You show the receipts and call them out on their work, you’ll get a response which will one hour later be deleted. That is the relationship between the OUAT Fandom & Adam & Eddy.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
The problem is that they think fandom gives them ratings, when they dont, a fandom is from all over the world, meaning american members of fandom will be very small and in the fandom most of them are broken.
Also, based on latest spoilers, appears they are now preparing to retcon neverland, so Blackbeard was also in NVL and this was never mention? Lost boys, ok, i get they may do this without having Pan showing up, but what about the rest of the characters, there was a kid, i cant remmebr his name, he was the one that meer i thought was the Leader of them, are they ignoring that Bae was also there, Tink, and if they go and say Tiger lily was there too, they have to explain how was that never adressed and if they go with TL and Tinker belle being adults in neverland, i will never understand why they didnt get Wendy adult, that way, if no SF, they could have done Neal and wendy
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
Season 5B was not well written. Half of the characters didn’t interact with anyone of relevance to their lives. Cora interacting with Regina was the most interesting thing that happened there and that is hard to take because of what Cora did to Regina and everyone else she met and murdered. Hook interacting with his brother and Emma realizing Liam was shady was the second most interesting interaction.
They made up a new backstory with Snow and Hercules so they could do some Greek Mythology instead of having Snow interact with say her parents or even Cora who she murdered. We find out Milah has been hanging out in the Underworld, but she never meets Hook because, seriously, what would they do with that? The whole Henry wanting to bring Curella back so that Emma isn’t a murderer was ridiculous. Emma killed Curella in self defense to save her kid. That’s not murder. Also, why not have Emma interact more with Cruella, that might have been interesting.
Whatever happened with the people who were thrown into the river of lost souls? Milah and Aunt Em?
They didn’t do anything interesting with James or Gaston and they could have. Instead, they were just bumps in the road which gave no character development to the regulars. I don’t remember Charming do anything interesting except talking to the baby over the seance phone. The Red and Dorothy episode was random and very badly constructed because it focused on Snow and the Red/Dorothy plot was more of an afterthought so that the writers could get their LGBT check mark.
Then there was the end where Robin died protecting Regina, then Zelena uses the crystal on Hades. Yet, Robin is special extra he can’t be brought back to life just because and Hook is then brought special extra back to life by Zeus just because. At Robin’s funeral.
Season 5A and 4B were bad, but 5B wasn’t some well written masterpiece either. There was some better character moments for Regina, but there was so much that was missed out on. Snow, Charming, Emma, and Rumpel pretty much had no interesting interactions with anyone who they knew who died or who they had killed besides Emma’s true dream with Neal. It also dragged on forever because everyone knew Hook would live and Hades would die, so just do it already.
There are two separate issues here. On one hand, the writing on the show is inconsistent and illogical. On the other hand, Adam and Eddy changed their story, they are no longer writing their story, because the ABC execs told them to. The second thing is the reason that the writer changed their intended story. The first thing is the problem. The problem is that the writing is bad. They could have found a way to incorporate Hook into the show as Emma’s love interest in a way that would have made sense for her as a character, just like they could have found a way to incorporate Regina into the family in a way that would have made sense for Emma, Snow, and Henry as characters.
They didn’t do that. Instead of saying okay, we have to change our story, ABC is telling us to write a different story then we intended, so what can we do to Hook’s character for it to make sense that Emma, our protagonist, our new fairytale character, might date him. Then have Hook stop pursing her immediately, have Hook help people because it’s the right thing to do, have Emma and Hook become actual friends, have Hook stop making crass comments immediately, maybe have him change his clothes once in awhile.
They could have had Hook talk about the bad things he has done in the past that specifically harmed Emma. All of his behavior in Season 2 would have to be explained. Maybe, he had to maintain his villainy in front of Cora or she would have killed him. They definitely have to bring up and explain Hook selling Baelfire to Pan for protection. He should have stopped all of the creepy, possessive, behavior immediately. He can’t be throwing himself off of buildings to get Emma’s attention. He can’t be asking for kisses as rewards for helping save her dad’s life. He can’t be getting drunk and hitting on Tink because Emma might go on a date with Neal. It has been awhile since i watched the old episodes, but all of that should have stopped immediately if the show was well written because Emma is Emma.
Emma is someone who was hurt when she was young by what happened with Neal and August and getting pregnant and going to jail. Emma would not date Hook. It makes no sense characterwise that they are dating. Their relationship is shown to be toxic on screen and they have never had a true love moment on screen. I never said that Adam or Eddy agreed with me. I do think that on the show Emma and Hook will get married and make babies and all that stuff, but i think that is illogical and inconsistent and Adam and Eddy don’t get to decide what is or is not a toxic relationship. I actually would go straight to saying that their relationship is abusive, just because the writers write Emma as accepting of Hook’s actions, doesn’t make it not abusive.
Emma’s true dream with Neal
One thing about this dream and shows again how there is not writing consistency in the show.
they had neal saying was not a dream, but then they show emma sleeping and this season they explain the difference btw dream and vision. The vision happened, like Emma seeing dark one rumple and her vision of her dying, dream is a product of your subconscience, therefor nor real, so what was it, Emma dreamed with neal bc of guilty feelings of not saving him, of wanting to know he moved on, and also mix feeling that something may end up bad, or that was really a vision? Then we have Belle, Rumple and Gideon, those 2 inside Belle head while she was in sleeping curse, in this case, somehow, magic was used to go inside her heard, and a dream became a mix of dream and vision, so was that what happened to 512 Sf scene? Someone used magic to make neal soul, bc he was dead, inside Emma`s head? I know all these questions are pointless, but at same time show how there is no consistency in the writing, bc these things have to be explained.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
My issue is if you hate all these things about the show, why do you watch it? Â Some people on here have literally nothing nice to say about the show, ever. Â It makes zero sense to me.
Obviously, I can’t speak for anyone else, but it seems to me that one should not equate intellectual engagement with uncritical approval. There are many different ways to consume a media product, and not all of them fall along the lines of “like=will watch/dislike=won’t watch.” A bit of a false analogy, but lets take the news — another kind of media product. Just because I don’t like some of the things being reported on, or don’t like the particular political “spin” doesn’t mean I’m going to stop consuming the news. Or just because I find a text (broadly defined) problematic or offensive, doesn’t necessarily mean I will stop reading it — but I certainly don’t have to like it or feel the need to praise it.
And as far as Emma and Hook go….just because you may think it has been written poorly and isn’t true love and has been unhealthy for Emma, doesn’t mean that’s what A&E think.
Right, that’s obviously true — they don’t seem to see the problems that some of the audience is pointing out. More generally, in my opinion, authorial intent is … if not entirely irrelevant, at least not particularly relevant compared to uptake.
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