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See I thought they brought back more of these scenes in the last couple seasons (season 6, season 5b mostly. Like Regina meeting her father in the UW and Henry finally meeting his other grandfather whom he was named after. Cora getting valuable time with her two sisters was amazing. Rumple and his father, Pan. Charming and his twin brother. Snow taking to Red about being gay. Henry talking to Emma when they found Aladdin’s corpse in that cave place. Hook saving Henry and then Henry saving Hook and basically welcoming him into their family. The EQ interacting with Henry and seeing the differences between how Regina treats him and how EQ does. Hook and his brother Liam. Snow and Charming writing to each other in between going to back to sleep for this new curse. Hook opening up the storybook and reminding Emma that she comes from true love and that she can conquer anything. Savior character moments between Aladdin and Emma. Emma going back for counseling with Archie and talking about why she’s afraid. Countless scenes with Regina and Emma who now are good friends (this may be the best developed relationship on the show). Heck, they even gave us the ACTUAL moment Charming and Snow first met which I was initially worried about but ultimately thought was very successful. And that’s to name the select few that came to my head.
So again, are people just not seeing this or are people so fed up with how most of the show is done now that they fail to see that OUAT has clearly gone back to more character moments in the last year and a half and it absolutely has given it more of that season 1 vibe. Anyone who doesn’t see that isn’t looking hard enough and is just too caught up in the hate and the relationship stuff to notice that these scenes have been taking place more frequently as of late.
[adrotate group="5"]Snow and Charming writing to each other in between going to back to sleep for this new curse. Hook opening up the storybook and reminding Emma that she comes from true love and that she can conquer anything.
Well I wouldn’t count those two because they are romantic pairings and we’re talking non-romantic pairings. But, again I take your point so let me flesh out the actual criticism.
I think what I’m getting at (I won’t speak for @hjbau) is that the conversations tend to follow one of a few paths:
1) non romantic pairing having super heavy conversation about what is going on with the big bad or expressing the theme of the arc and/or show (hope, family, faith, belief).
2) romantic pairing that discuss either their romance and/or have a super heavy conversation about the big bad or expressing the theme of the arc/show.
3) Group conversations that revolve around the current plot and/or the MacGuffin of the week.
Few of these are character conversations. And if they are, they tend to be almost too weighted down by the current plot dilemma and then never go anywhere after the vignette or scene or episode is done. It’s like…personal revelation for 5 seconds and then, nothing for arcs at a time.
I mean, we don’t get Snow and Emma just sitting around chatting about their hopes, dreams, or anything to do with them their very selves ect (with absolutely nothing coming back to their romantic partners…because that’s a fail of the Bechdel test). For example, Emma going to therapy was rather a genius idea; the girl needs it, badly. But one of the biggest conversations Emma had with Archie wasn’t necessarily about her but rather about Hook losing his happy ending if she dies. EEK! Now, yes, I can accept that any sane person would think about their romantic partner if they suddenly learned they were going to die, but for it be *at the forefront* of the conversation (especially when Emma has about a thousand problems she needs to delve into) that’s…super problematic.
The conversations are becoming rather rote; for example
–Emma has a problem; if she doesn’t turn to Hook automatically (which happens more often than not) she turns to Regina (which always has a bit of a queer baity feel to it). If she doesn’t turn to either of those two and there is no Tragic Female!of the arc (read: the likes of Elsa) THEN she turns to Snow/Charming
–Snow and Charming, if they are lucky to get tagged as Emma’s confidant take on a Greek Chorus vibe—in tandem they offer the same piece of advice every time: have hope, the family will make it because we’ve made it through other stuff, hope, family, hope, family, rinse and repeat. They aren’t characters in these moments so much as non-sentient sounding boards who are pre-programmed to give pre recorded responses.
And here’s the rub: Snow and Charming have good conversations with each other..but that’s the point. That’s a romantic pairing conversation.
The basic problem that lies behind all this criticism is too much plot. An absolute abundance of plot. Our characters are so consumed with plot that there’s no room to breathe. It’s rush around, rush around, defeat, defeat, defeat. And even if there is a nice lull without any monster/big bad, we don’t get to see it (the six weeks in between 4A and 4B, for example!)
I’m not asking for 22 episodes of Snow and Emma braiding each other’s hair and watch the Gilmore Girls. But if we were to scale back on ALL OF THE PLOT then we might find that characters are able to have more meaningful conversations–that last longer and have greater impact than for more than a hot second.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"At least for me, part of it is what others have articulated around critique as an exciting form of intellectual and social engagement.
That’s exactly what it is for me. I really like to read literature, and so I really enjoy a literary critique. That doesn’t mean I tear every book I read to shreds or belittle everything authors have written. Offering a critique does not necessarily mean one dislikes something at all. It means she wrestles with it intellectually. I like the kind of engagement that you might get at a book club, for example. This forum has been a place to discuss the show, or rather, its script. I like looking beneath the hood (to borrow the metaphor from @nevermore about being a car enthusiast who tinkers with its parts). I really like looking for authorial intent, symbolism, and the overarching narrative framework. I like looking for the driving force of the show as well as analyzing characters both on an individual level and in relationship with other characters. That is why I used to love analyzing OUAT. There was so much to analyze, and the show was heading in a direction that the writers had hinted at since the very first season and which was in keeping with how the characters had previously been written.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I’m not asking for 22 episodes of Snow and Emma braiding each other’s hair and watch the Gilmore Girls. But if we were to scale back on ALL OF THE PLOT then we might find that characters are able to have more meaningful conversations–that last longer and have greater impact than for more than a hot second.
I think all of these are fair points. Their incessant need for PLOT has killed the simple character moments. Everyday stuff. We joke that no one on the show eats or goes to the bathroom haha. I can’t think of specific examples off the top of my head, but I feel like this season, many have said it’s a little slow developing and I do think part of it is because they have gone back to a more “everyday life” vibe. Yes, the EQ is running around, but not everyone else is. Zelena is one character that comes to mind. She’s at home taking care of her baby. Belle and her had a decent conversation I believe because they had the whole baby thing in common.
Zelena is one character that comes to mind. She’s at home taking care of her baby.
She is, you’re right but I have two points of criticism about this.
1) We saw very little of this. We saw extremely little of her bonding with her newborn or even trying to be a brand new single mother. She’s literally on her own, without even her sister (Regina, not EQ) to help her, and we saw none of that emotional struggle. A newborn baby is exhausting; you’re tired, you’re cranky, you’re out of your depth. and we barely saw Zelena at all.
2) This first point leads to the second: there’s nothing for Zelena’s narrative except as a mother and because A and E go full throttle on ALL ZE PLOT, motherhood gets cast as something easy, burden free, and like it’s all lollipops and unicorns. It’s sanctification of motherhood (something they are WAY too into on this show, to an uncomfortable degree).
Now, I criticized so let me praise:
Belle and her had a decent conversation I believe because they had the whole baby thing in common.
This kind of conversation is good. It was needed. It links Zelena to others outside of her immediate family (really just Regina) which is absolutely needed since the show is largely pushing the idea of family being more than just your blood relations, they are the community that forms around you.
MORE OF THAT.However, this leads me to the rarity of those moments, like I already pointed out. It makes them more precious but it should be the meat of the show. Again, all ze plot .
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"This kind of conversation is good. It was needed. It links Zelena to others outside of her immediate family (really just Regina) which is absolutely needed since the show is largely pushing the idea of family being more than just your blood relations, they are the community that forms around you.
Yes that would have been good, except you have Belle talking to the woman who KILLED her husband’s son. That is what is wrong with the show, all these characters are supposed to co exist and have meaningful conversations and we are supposed to forget about the plot. I love meaningful conversations and love when we have character moments. Regina and Snow had some great moments in 5B, Hook and Emma had a great moment in 6A, and as everyone can guess I love Rumple and Belle moments from season 2 with that being said those moments need to make sense with the plot. We have too few of those moments and then we have these moments that should never happen. Belle and Zelena should not be friends sitting around talking about what they have in common. What they have in common is plot, Zelena enslaved her husband and killed her step son.
except you have Belle talking to the woman who KILLED her husband’s son.
yes there is that lol
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It goes with the idea that Regina was the one who made Snow believe in HOPE™ because she made her life miserable.
"All your questions are pointless"
It goes with the idea that Regina was the one who made Snow believe in HOPE™ because she made her life miserable.
Or that Emma should be dating Hook even though he slept with her son’s grandmother. Plot should not be forgotten and this shows seems to do that alot
Or having Henry saving and welcoming Hook after he tells him, that he killed his own father, that would be a reason to have Henry not even wanting Hook close to his mom, because hook killed his father bc he was jealous, no other reason.
Or having Rumple calling Henry Hook`s son, simply to gload to Evil queen( according to adam, but then he deleted the tweet), no way Rumple would say that, or the fact that so far Henry and Rumple had zero talks about Neal/bae, Rumple knew him much more than Hook, instead they have Henry talking with Hook about Neal/bae, when they were together like some days before he sold him to Pan.
Or having Zelena gloading about killing Neal and no one does anything, not even send her to jail and they even want her to get her happy ending.
This show is a mess, is like they forget the storyline of past episodes and seasons, and they use each part of the show as a reboot, to pretend somethings didn`t happened.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
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