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I really didn’t like the retcon, but I’ll always love Baelfire.
Right, agreed. The only thing it does is prove that either 1) the writers don’t understand/remember their characters or 2) if they do understand/remember they don’t care about those same characters. Whatever serves the plot of the moment is how they write their characters.
The latter.
[adrotate group="5"]"All your questions are pointless"
Saw this on tumblr, i will post just the link bc of language, but mentions something we talked here.
Also, in one of the notes on the post says this:
“I was watching the afterbuzz video on YouTube and everyone even the Hook fan club said this Bae retcon was unnecessary and an insult to all the Bae/Neal fans”.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
So Rumple giving him a memory spell after Bae acted OOC didn’t save any face at all for you guys? Isn’t that the definition of why it wasn’t OOC? Now we know that at one time, Bae was tempted and used the dagger to kill someone whom he deemed a threat to him and his father. But we also know that Rumple took the blame and Bae went on after that to hate magic….which we saw. We saw that Bae. So can someone please tell me how this was OOC? Without the memory spell it is. I get that. Bc the rest of Bae’s life he goes out not liking magic and would never succumb to it so it would make zero sense if he remembered this as a child. But if the show is going to do this to put Rumple in a better light, then what’s wrong with Bae doing this one thing, Rumple fixing it so he doesn’t remember it, and Bae going on to be the Bae we saw throughout the show? You still get the Bae we knew, but now they created a wrinkle to show that Rumple saved his son from potentially being dark. It was Rumple’s actions that gave you guys the Bae you fell in love with. So I don’t get how this was OOC. And I get that it’s annoying that Bae would ever even be tempted by magic like that, but kids make mistakes. And it doesn’t mean it shattered his character. I also get that a memory spell probably shouldn’t wipe someone clean of darkness just bc they forget it, but that’s what they are going with so that’s what I have to go with too. And if that’s true, then Bae was reset before he used the dagger to the Bae we all remember and loved. So again, how is any one of this OOC with what we see in the future if Rumple wiped him clean?
Alas, what Rumple won’t do for his son……he hid this from Bae so he never would know what he did. He saved him in a sense and crushed his relationship with his son just so Bae could have a better life. They are setting us up for a Rumple death.
So Rumple giving him a memory spell after Bae acted OOC didn’t save any face at all for you guys? Isn’t that the definition of why it wasn’t OOC? Now we know that at one time, Bae was tempted and used the dagger to kill someone whom he deemed a threat to him and his father.
Do I think it fits with Rumple’s character? yes.
Do I think Bae using the dagger in the first place to command his father to kill someone is In Character? No.
I also don’t think its fits with the previously established way the dagger works and that the memory potion is a poor excuse/MacGuffin. It’s shoddy writing all around. It also recasts the Rumple/Bae dynamic quite a bit, IMO. Rumple walked away from his darker instincts by not killing Beowulf. He proved that he had it in him to fight the call of darkness. And then Bae pushed him over the edge both by ordering him to kill Beowulf and needing to be saved from the dagger’s power. Again, very in line with Rumple’s character, not so much with Bae’s.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I also don’t think its fits with the previously established way the dagger works and that the memory potion is a poor excuse/MacGuffin. It’s shoddy writing all around. It also recasts the Rumple/Bae dynamic quite a bit, IMO. Rumple walked away from his darker instincts by not killing Beowulf. He proved that he had it in him to fight the call of darkness. And then Bae pushed him over the edge both by ordering him to kill Beowulf and needing to be saved from the dagger’s power. Again, very in line with Rumple’s character, not so much with Bae’s.
Right, but again, the character moving forward wasn’t changed bc of the reset memory potion. So are you saying that in THAT moment, it was OOC for Bae to do that? Had the show established when Bae was younger that he was vehemently as against magic as he was as he got older? We saw in this flashback that he didn’t think Rumple needed it, but he wasn’t as emphatic about it as he was as he got older. He just thought his father didn’t need it as opposed to thinking his father was a bad person bc he used it. So did Bae establish this hatred for magic and a complete unwillingness to be tempted or entertain the idea of using magic before this flashback? Was he super super against it to the point that he wouldn’t use it even if he felt Beowulf was a danger to keep alive? I’m not sure that had been established in Bae’s character yet and we know the future Bae character isn’t affected bc of the reset. So I still don’t get that it’s OOC unless it was shown that Bae vehemently was against it when he was younger before this flashback occurred and therefore would never have been tempted to use it. Wasn’t this the first time he had magic to wield in the first place? Wouldn’t it be conceivable that someone who is against something without trying it, could be more accepting of it, or susceptible once they finally do? It would make some sense if this was his first taste of wielding magic as a child to potentially make a mistake.
In regards to the Rumple-Bae dynamic in the future, yup it definitely changes things. That is true. You can definitely say that Bae may have caused Rumple to go back down a dark path that he showed he was clearly capable of moving away from. So yup, that changed. But that’s not my argument. My argument is whether or not it was OOC and to me, it seems people are looking at older Bae and how he felt about magic and saying that Bae would never have done this. But at that time in Bae’s life, Rumple being the DO was relatively brand new and he had never even really seen magic or at least been directly in contact with it. And to my knowledge, wasn’t he only vehemently against it as he got older later on…as we know, his mild distaste for it turned into hatred mainly bc of him thinking Rumple killed Beowulf.
Am I completely off base here? Again, if you can establish that there was flashback before this time that showed Bae really really against magic (not just telling Rumple that you don’t need it), then yup, OOC. Otherwise I just don’t think I agree.
I’ve argued this before in the dark Hook nonesense. Loosing your memory should not take away your dark intentions. Baelfire never had those murderous tendencies, it would have surfaced again at one point, but we never saw that.
It doesn’t help that the show is overflown with inconsistencies about how the dagger works (remember when Emma heard voices and it never came up again?).
"All your questions are pointless"
I think you’re splitting hairs a bit, DarkOne.
Bae was against Rumple using the dark magic because he didn’t like the idea of dark magic and Rumple being dependent upon it. You don’t have to be super emphatic against Dark Magic, gung ho “no no no no” to not order the murder of a person. This wasn’t just “kids make mistakes” or “Bae wasn’t against dark magic enough to not do this…”
He ordered the murder of a person. Sure, not a great person, but that doesn’t matter.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think you’re splitting hairs a bit, DarkOne.
Bae was against Rumple using the dark magic because he didn’t like the idea of dark magic and Rumple being dependent upon it. You don’t have to be super emphatic against Dark Magic, gung ho “no no no no” to not order the murder of a person. This wasn’t just “kids make mistakes” or “Bae wasn’t against dark magic enough to not do this…”
He ordered the murder of a person. Sure, not a great person, but that doesn’t matter.
Agreed, and I hate how they treat murder so lightly, and not just in this case. Rumple, Regina and Hook killed a lot of people and no one seemed to care about it, it doesn’t have any sort of effect on them. Just because the viewers don’t care about random characters, doesn’t mean the main shouldn’t care about them.
In other shows and stories, taking a human life is a huge deal and it should be the case in here as well.
"All your questions are pointless"
No, a nasty person indeed. But wouldn’t you say that Bae was more against it as he got older? That he actually judged his father and deemed him a bad person bc of his crutch to use magic. In this flashback, we haven’t gotten to that point yet. Here, Rumple’s magic is still new and Bae feels he doesn’t need it. But he doesn’t think Rumple is a bad father or not a good person bc he’s having a hard time giving it up. He’s not saying things like, “I hate you.” I’m not sure it’s really splitting hairs. I think the time frame matters here bc people’s opinions evolve. And Bae’s opinion of magic gets progressively more negative. We just didn’t realize that it was bc of something Bae did, that made Rumple reset him that made Bae’s opinion of magic all the more negative. And I get that’s annoying. But OOC? Ehh.
And as far as the dark hook nonsense goes, I think this all but confirms that not having a memory of something means you aren’t going to be dark, even if it is inside you. I’m not saying AI agree with it, but that is what the show is saying here. So isn’t Bae’s reset just being consistent with what Hook went through as the DO?
There are many things about it, is not that the dagger push Bae to do it, was the fact that bae is DEAD, they will not mention this again or explain it better, they should have stayed quiet, but they didnt why??? Because they needed to compare Bae and Gideon and im not even talking about Hook and doesn`t matter the theories the fans may have, they will not be explain it in the show.
Also, Rumple clearly says that fact darkened Bae soul, you dont have darkness in your soul and with a memory potion that darkness disapears, would mean that even with potion, he would still feel the apeal to be dark, which he wasnt, also they could they have shown the dagger push him even with a ghost zozo for example, yes, that could have be seen in the show, but actually making him decide not to give the dagger push and used it to make Rumple did what he did, that could have been done, not what they did.
And how the dagger works was never explained, and the persons that got the hands of it, were villains already, are you saying to me now that there are 2 identities that now besides the dark one inside his host, the dagger also has his own mind? because that was never explained or shown, that if you have the dagger you are suddenly push to do dark stuff, neither Belle on S4, or even Regina, that has already darkness inside her on S5, never was push to use it to make Emma do bad things.
Also, Bae as a kid was always against magic.
Also, @darkonederie, i get that you love the show and so is difficult for you to admit the show flaws, but there are flaws, and when even fans that dislike Neal say is OOC and was a retcon that says something about the episode, is not just us that liked Nealfire, there are also other fans that disliked that character saying the same thing and just because the show showed it, doesn`t mean that we have to go along with and say , oh no big deal, move along, and i have to say that besides this retcon, there were other bad things in this epi, from Timelines that were wrong, and so on, the message also for a show to see a kid using a dagger to ask someone to kill another person was bad, btw others messages they showed in this episode.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
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