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It is weird because i don’t remember there being any captain swan fans in Season 2.
Oh I remember it happened the second Tallahassee ended. We have some threads about it floating around before the official CS thread came up. In fact, I’d say it probably began to happen earlier when Colin was cast, was elevated to full time, and then when we learned that Hook was still alive in present day. I also remember that the split between SF and CS happened right after Tallahassee because everyone had a pretty frank opinion on if Neal did right or if he did wrong.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Yeah, i just don’t remember that at all. The other places i frequented about Ouat just didn’t have that. I remember talking a lot about Regina in Season 2 and how her being accepted was ridiculous. I don’t remember Hook being part of the discussion in that way because he was a villain. He was with Cora. Also, he was still pinning over Milah in Season 2. Like i said, i am sure it existed, it just wasn’t part of my experience of that season at all.
That is why i have a hard time really believing that it was all that vocal of a group because i was active in the fandom and it didn’t even exist for me. Not like now where there are a lot of posts about what people want to happen in show with Emma and Hook taking over the Ouat spoiler tag on tumblr. I still just remember the articles where news people would ask about Hook as if him being a love interest was viable and A&E and the cast just saying no all the time.
I could see why people started shipping CS after Tallahassee because Emma and Hook did have great chemistry in that episode. However, I never saw it as a romantic chemistry, it was a more he would needle her and flirt and potentially they could become genuine friends. Hook had chemistry with Cora (and Cora had chemistry with the Sheriff of Nottingham). In fact Hook being Cora’s toy boy lover would’ve been interesting to see and would also give him motivation to betray Emma and co to Greg/Tamara after Cora’s death
I think the worst thing about CS, beyond how Hook pestered Emma until she gave in, is how clingy and needy Emma has become. It’s got to the point where Hook is the one that could do better, he is the one who is more likeable, which is a shame because Emma used to be the likeable one. She used to help people because it was the right thing to do, despite them not being family. Now she just tells Belle not to stay at Granny’s without offering any alternative accommodation. Hook was the one that stepped up to help Belle, not the “saviour” who couldn’t care less that Belle was now a homeless pregnant woman.
Emma has been controlling Hook since season 5. First she turns him into a dark one against his wishes, then she erases his memories so he doesn’t know what she did to him, then she follows him to the underworld to bring him back despite him telling her to let him go which results in Robin’s death, then in season 6 she rifles through his things until she finds the engagement ring and then pressures Hook into proposing even though he was trying to confess what he did to Charming’s father, then she has a go at him for not telling her what he did despite the fact he was trying to but she was more interested in him popping the question because she knew what her answer was.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixEmma has been controlling Hook since season 5. First she turns him into a dark one against his wishes, then she erases his memories so he doesn’t know what she did to him, then she follows him to the underworld to bring him back despite him telling her to let him go which results in Robin’s death, then in season 6 she rifles through his things until she finds the engagement ring and then pressures Hook into proposing even though he was trying to confess what he did to Charming’s father, then she has a go at him for not telling her what he did despite the fact he was trying to but she was more interested in him popping the question because she knew what her answer was.
*sigh* It’s almost as if the writers were trying to tell us something (i.e. Hook and Emma aren’t right for each other)! There have been some not-so-little setbacks like Hook lying about the sheers of destiny and trying to burn his memories of murdering Charming’s father in cold blood. Hook keeps trying to live up to this high standard in order to be with Emma but falling short while Emma keeps acting co-dependently. She clings to Hook like a drowning woman tries to cling to a life raft. It’s just not pleasant to watch in any shape and form and yet these two are supposed to tie the knot soon!
Hook has actually been trying hard to change in season six, despite his set backs, as demonstrated by how Hook has kindly treated Belle, helped to save Henry from his brother, and helped prevent Charming from killing King George. In fact, I’d say that Hook has actually been likeable ever since his resurrection and that he really is trying to better himself, but it’s just his relationship with Emma that keeps causing him to stumble. He was so unhappy about how to tell Emma about his past as a pirate that it led him to drink heavily. I’d say that’s a big problem if one’s romantic partner leads him to get drunk.
As PoM wrote, Emma has become the unhealthy partner in this unhealthy relationship! She’s needy, unstable, and can only think about how her foreboding death would affect Hook and not her own son or parents. She talked to Archie about how her vision of her death would mean Hook would lose his happy ending (not even her own life or her own son’s happy ending)! All Emma can think about now is Hook. In fact, I think Emma is suffering from a clear case of codependency. I looked up the symptoms and Emma pretty much ticks all of the boxes:
What is codependency and what are its symptoms? It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive. Source: Mental Health America
According to that source, characteristics of co-dependent people are:
An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others. This is the Savior Complex!
A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue. Emma feels the need to rescue Hook because he made her his own personal savior!
A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time. This is Emma! She said she doesn’t get to have a day off because she’s the savior.
A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts. This might be true to Emma to an extent. She’s always reminding people that she’s the savior after all.
An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment!! This is Emma to a tee! She’s got huge abandonment issues and clung to Hook after he asked her to let him go, instead making him into the dark one, the thing he hated most. She even risked her son’s life by taking her family to the UW to get back the pirate — after Hook told her not to!
An extreme need for approval and recognition. Emma questioned who she is without the Savior identity. It gives her recognition from others.
A sense of guilt when asserting themselves. Emma hardly ever tells off Hook when he does something wrong. Her giving back the ring wasn’t even about his murdering Robert. It was about his lack of trust in her.
A compelling need to control others. This is so Emma. She literally used the dark one dagger to control Hook. She also uses emotional blackmail to get Hook to be a good boy and keep in line. She tries to soften herself by appealing to his sense of manhood to get him to accept what she wants.
Lack of trust in self and/or others. If one thing has been established it’s that Hook and Emma don’t trust each other. They kept betraying each other’s trust all throughout S5a.
Fear of being abandoned or alone. Yep, this one is definitely Emma. She still feels like an orphan, which Hook knows and uses to keep her in a relationship with him. He emotionally abused her when he called her an orphan and and said she was her own worst enemy.
Difficulty identifying feelings. Yep. Regina, Snow and even Hook know it: Emma isn’t in touch with her true feelings, at all.
Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change. Emma is certainly rigid. She had a really hard time settling into SB.
Problems with intimacy/boundaries. Yep, we all know that Emma has huge problems with intimacy and boundaries. At first, she kept everyone at a distance because it was her armor. Then she slowly let her son and Mary Margaret into her life. She is friends with Regina now, which is positive, but she has let Hook destroy her walls to such an extent now that he basically has fooled her into thinking she must put his needs and wishes before her own or even Henry’s. (Sounds like Milha and Baelfire all over again).
Chronic anger Yep, Emma just punched Gideon in the face for sending away Hook, despite the fact that Hook was fine!
Lying/dishonesty Yep — Emma took away everyone’s memories and lied to her family about why she was the dark one to keep Hook from finding out what she’d done to him.
Poor communications – Yep, Emma cannot really open up to anyone, even to Hook it seems. Charming even made some comment about how strange it was for Hook and Emma to have so many secrets from each other despite living together.
Difficulty making decisions. Emma had a really hard time making up her mind whether to ask Hook to move in with her or not.Hmmm…..sounds like Emma ticks most, if not all, of those boxes, doesn’t it? She has so many issues! Emma doesn’t really care about helping Gideon defeat the Dark Fairy or saving the children that she kidnapped and took to the Dark Realm. At present, Emma doesn’t even seem to care that the Dark Fairy may have a doomsday plan for SB. Emma only seems to care about getting “her pirate” back (ick). Why isn’t she really concerned about Gideon’s warning that the Dark Fairy may have something much darker than the dark curse planned? Emma declared that Gideon was unsavable after he tried to kill her again (under the control the Dark Fairy), but she doesn’t care one bit that Hook tried to send her son, her parents, and the entire town to hell last season. *head desk*
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Hmmm…..sounds like Emma ticks most, if not all, of those boxes, doesn’t it?
Great analysis, @Slurpeez. I think more generally, Emma, along with most of our mains, all seem to be suffering from some form of attachment disorder. One does have to wonder about the writers — it’s almost as if the only way they know how to create difficult background stories for their characters is by making them all come from “broken homes.”
Is there anyone among the main characters who isn’t either (1) from a single parent household, (2) hasn’t been abandoned or separated from primary caregiver(s) at an early age, (3) didn’t have one or both parents die at an early age and/or (4) didn’t have a narcissistic, manipulative and emotionally unavailable parent?
After tonight, let’s add to the list of severe codependency, shall we? Emma just used a magical MacGuffin to find Hook rather than wake up her parents. She always puts the pirate before everyone else, including her family. Yes, they found a way to wake up Charming and Snow, but there was no guarantee that would happen. For all Emma knew, she was condemning her parents to eternal slumber and her baby brother to growing up without their parents the way that she had to do! Emma Swan is is a Pod Person. She has become one of most selfish characters I’ve ever had the misfortune to care aboout. Had I known this would be her trajectory, I never would’ve gotten invested in her character or this story.
Is there anyone among the main characters who isn’t either (1) from a single parent household, (2) hasn’t been abandoned or separated from primary caregiver(s) at an early age, (3) didn’t have one or both parents die at an early age and/or (4) didn’t have a narcissistic, manipulative and emotionally unavailable parent?
I don’t think any of the main characters qualify. Only Baby Alexandra (Cinderella’s) kid and maybe Baby Snowflake do, but not if Charming and Snow keep making terrible parenting choices.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I will never like Hook largely because of what I think he represents in culture but oh my God. Emma Swan what even are you nowadays? Every time she’s on screen I find myself inwardly cringing.
I can get wanting to save your boyfriend/fiancee but at least have some sort of internal conflict over sacrificing your parents and your brother’s chance to have the life you were denied in order to save said boyfriend!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"“It’s okay. I didn’t exactly make it easy for you to tell me the truth” – Emma blaming herself about Hook lying to her.
"All your questions are pointless"
“It’s okay. I didn’t exactly make it easy for you to tell me the truth” – Emma blaming herself about Hook lying to her.
Yeah. That.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Hmmm…..sounds like Emma ticks most, if not all, of those boxes, doesn’t it?
Great analysis, @Slurpeez. I think more generally, Emma, along with most of our mains, all seem to be suffering from some form of attachment disorder. One does have to wonder about the writers — it’s almost as if the only way they know how to create difficult background stories for their characters is by making them all come from “broken homes.” Is there anyone among the main characters who isn’t either (1) from a single parent household, (2) hasn’t been abandoned or separated from primary caregiver(s) at an early age, (3) didn’t have one or both parents die at an early age and/or (4) didn’t have a narcissistic, manipulative and emotionally unavailable parent?
I can think of one. Well possibly. We never got his childhood story told, as I understand it. And I don’t know the cannon from the original tale.
Robin.
Well, yes, he, or at least the original Robin, is dead now, but I would consider him a main character of the show, like I would Neal. Neither were just a half-season hero or villain character, and were more than just reoccurring too.
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