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Because one person on Tumblr means anything? Oh or are you talking about all the bitter SQ shippers online that are gonna boycott the episode. The funniest thing is none of those people live in the USA so watch or not watch they don’t matter to ABC. This is the only forum online that is anti CS and that’s why this place is a safe-haven for the CS haters. Hey though somethings we all need our safe place.
I don’t know what you are talking about or why you felt the need to respond with nothing. I am pointing out that a very well known OUAT Tumblr review who is usually very PRO CS sees the same things we are seeing. I am sorry that you don’t like that or that you feel threatened that other people may share our opinions. I believe Screwball Ninja is from New York as it says at the top of the website. Have you read anything of hers? Have you looked at the website? If not then why are you responding. I could care less if this is the only forum that is what you call Anti CS, I come to this website because it is intelligent and analytical.
[adrotate group="5"]Guys, come on.
The same warning I posted in another thread about not devolving into shipping wars and antagonizing each other applies to all threads, whether there’s a bolded mod-box or not.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It wouldn’t surprise me if Emma goes all Misery on him and breaks his ankles with a wooden mallet just so that he can’t leave her, physically, literally and metaphorically.
This was awesome. Thanks.
Just wanted to point out that Screwball Ninja reviewed this episode and agreed with almost everything we are saying. Emma is not Emma anymore and Hook has not had a true redemption arc. It was a great review and very funny as always. I am just pointing this out, because she is known to be extremely fair to Hook and Emma and very analytical to her ship (Rumbelle) so it is not just “this website” that sees CS as a problem right now.
Because one person on Tumblr means anything? Oh or are you talking about all the bitter SQ shippers online that are gonna boycott the episode. The funniest thing is none of those people live in the USA so watch or not watch they don’t matter to ABC. This is the only forum online that is anti CS and that’s why this place is a safe-haven for the CS haters. Hey though somethings we all need our safe place.
For the last few weeks, I’ve tried to stay out of this conversation, but you know what…
So just because we’re willing to point out the flaws in the CaptainSwan relationship, we’re automatically haters. The last six years on these forums, this same conversation has been held, and I’ve done my fair share of arguing in the past concerning the topic. But let’s get something straight here…
We don’t “hate” on the CaptainSwan Ship, nor do we “bully” it’s shippers….all we do is point out the obvious flaws, and there are many, many flaws with the ship as my friends beforehand have already stated, and shared. This isn’t an Anti CS Forum…we don’t discriminate on here, there’s an issue in ALL the ships of OUAT. None of them are perfect, but that’s solely due to the poor writing and storytelling skills of OUAT’s Creative Team.
Whomever left these forums, we wished and still wish them the best. And if they ever choose to return, we welcome them back with open arms. No hate, all love!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Reading Screwball and here are some things I like/agree with
If just saying the name “Emma” triggers Rumple’s full memory recall I guess he wasn’t a Jane Austen fan, huh? Oh wait– he has amnesia potion on tap. Maybe he has to dose himself on the regular. That would help when watching this show, to be honest.
If Hook was supposed to be on a redemption quest abroad, why did they skip the redemption part? Let’s recap: People Saved: Zero. Ships Lost: 2 (Nautilus, Jolly Roger). **** Given About Things Not Emma-related: Zero. Couldn’t he at least have offered to help Tiger Lily before he learned it was directly related to Emma?
“Where’s Hook?” Emma asks Hook’s Shadow. And then the Shadow face palms because Emma, who used to track people for a living, can’t deduce that shadows mean Neverland. “Where is he?” Emma yells. “We don’t even know where he is!” Meanwhile, Hook’s Shadow puts on a Neverland Prep School sweatshirt and holds up a whiteboard that reads: “IT’S NEVERLAND,” before floating off to have a drink because even Shadows are so done with this plot. Are we SURE Wish!Cora didn’t go through the wardrobe and is cosplaying as Emma? Because real Emma knows what the hell shadows look like after spending half a season in Neverland.
Of course Emma wants her boyfriend back– that’s perfectly reasonable. But he’s been gone for TWO DAYS and, as far as she knows, isn’t in mortal peril. The Shadow means he’s in potential danger but he’s a grown pirate on his home turf. Joining the Neverland Junior Varsity Track and Field team would be MY idea of a nightmare, but I’m sure Hook can cope with some light jogging on the beach. If Hook can get taken down by no-name teen extras in Burlington Coat Factory fur capes he deserves to die, honestly. Give him some credit for surviving for 300 years, yeah?
Hook’s re-engagement speech was lovely! The context, however, is horrifying. Emma chose her boyfriend, who was missing for 48 hours and was only in potential danger, over her parents being in imminent danger of an ETERNITY of physical torment while their infant son (and Henry!) grows up without them. And then she happily makes out with said boyfriend five feet away from the prone, cursed bodies of her parents. This is a totally bonkers choice for a woman whose major trauma was growing up alone and whose Happy Ending will always involve her parents in some fashion. Last week Emma didn’t give a flying **** about a realm full of abused kids and now she doesn’t care about her own baby brother growing up without his parents? WHO IS THIS WOMAN?
(especially that one. ESPECIALLY)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Emma is starting to make a habit out of smooching her boyfriend over the casualties of her obsession to be with him. First at Robin’s grave, now whilst Snowing lay in a coma nearby. Does Emma have no respect?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI see nothing wrong with a strong female woman falling in love with a guy who has a bad past but Emma, being the good person she is, turns his life around. I mean, Hook would still be bad Hook if he never met Emma. That in and of itself is great story
Ah, see, I think maybe that’s the core of our disagreement. I don’t find that to be a great story, but a pernicious and potentially nefarious myth that misrepresents what actually happens in actually existing relationships.
@RG already said everything I would have in relation to missing the point of the feminist critique — and how the girl who saves the bad boy is its own species of misogyny. But there’s something problematic that’s gender-neutral here.
Just to clarify, it’s not that no one can ever change — or that a relationship can’t serve as a catalyst for change. But no, I’m sorry, love can’t change you. Not in the long run. Maybe love for your children, but even that is tenuous. The change itself has to be initiated internally to the person in question — the rest is just wish fulfillment. You yourself are stating that Hook would have stuck to his ways had it not been for Emma. If his change is contingent on his feelings for Emma, then should those feelings change — and in most relationships they will over the long term because no one stays “in love” forever, those feelings necessarily morph over time — then there’s zero guarantee that Hook won’t just revert as soon as the hormones fizzle out.
For the opposite story, we don’t need to go looking for a hypothetical Mr Emmett. We have Regina and Robin. Regina’s redemption and growth started very much internally — though it was catalyzed through her shifting relationships with different people: Emma, Snow, Henry, and a bit later Robin. Robin was key to her transformation, but not its primary cause. He certainly helped her on her path, but he had his own story and his own issues to deal with. And before you tell me that Robin and OQ were boring — it wasn’t for me. I though that relationship was underdeveloped and given short shrift by the writers, but it had a lot more to hold my attention than CS.
For a counterexample, look at Rumple. This is a cautionary tale about how difficult it is to change your ways even if you do love someone — Rumple struggles with changing his very nature over and over, and slides back over and over again. In part, it’s plot of course. But in part it’s also that it’s hard. So we have 2 very complicated, psychologically rich, and not entirely happy stories about people trying to change. And then you have CS and Emma being a variation on Magical Girlfriend.
Yes, Emma is a fictional character, but that doesn’t mean we, the members of the audience, don’t feel for her. I don’t think it’s true to say that it’s crazy that we should care about a fake person’s happiness. It’s not crazy; it’s actually part of basic human nature. Neuroscience researchers at Emory University have proposed that the same neural mechanisms that enable us to emphasize with real people also make us emphasize with fictional characters. Specialized brain cells called “motor neurons” are the proposed biological substrate of empathy, and these same specialized neurons are what get activated when we watch others we care about, whether real or fictional, go through difficulty. It’s proposed that these motor neurons are what allow us to take a walk in someone else’s shoes. The fact that so many people feel strongly about their favorite characters has a lot to do with their ability to identify with said characters on some level, despite the often fantastical situation. Hence, many people worry about Emma, who is a self-insert character, because they actually cared about her once the way they would a friend. Yes, it’s a bit silly, but it’s basic human psychology and biology.
I totally agree with what you said here. I do think that this is true and in the early seasons i did care about Emma. I just think that the writing of this show is so bad, Emma is so inconsistent from the character that she used to be, that it just has completely shattered the fourth wall for me. I can no longer think about her as a person because she behaves in ways that real people just do not. Character is everything and the writing of these characters is complete crap. Emma is still my favorite character. I still want her to interact with her parents and it not be about Hook and i know it isn’t going to happen again. I want them to show her taking care of Henry. I want her to be the leader and the savior and help the regular people. I want all of those things, but i also know that those things are not going to happen.
In the first season, Emma was written as a abused child that grew up in a bad home, but was still strong and she that was looking for a good home with good parents and learning how to take care of her child. She was also the normal person in the fantastical situation and those things were interesting. That is just all gone now, in my opinion.
I, also, think that while we may care about a character, that their happiness, as i said, cannot take precedence over how a show comments on the life and the toxic social attitudes it is propping up by spewing terrible ideas on its viewers. All that stuff you said. Obviously for some people, they don’t feel that the show has gone too far and they are still able to care about the characters and have that conversation. I just think that a lot of people are not having that conversation. They are having the conversation about how this show is commenting on life in a way that is toxic and how the show should be criticized for it. Which it should be.
Emma is starting to make a habit out of smooching her boyfriend over the casualties of her obsession to be with him. First at Robin’s grave, now whilst Snowing lay in a coma nearby. Does Emma have no respect?
God forbid Emma be happy that she’s reunited with her true love and wants to kiss him after being separated from him.
And it wasn’t near Robin’s grave, it was near Killian’s. Blame the writers that they chose to have Killian and Robin’s grave very close to each other.
And I guess we’re just gonna ignore what the Charming’s wanted Emma to do so…
Blame the writers that they chose to have Killian and Robin’s grave very close to each other.
We do blame the writers. If you actually read this thread carefully, that’s what people are criticising. The WRITING of the characters which perpetuates what we consider harmful social stereotypes. If Hook and Emma were written in a healthy manner, we’d be on board. So perhaps instead of jumping on anyone who expresses any slight anti-CS sentiment, or branding people as “bitter”, try going back and actually trying to understand what people are arguing.
On a different note, I notice that @thedarkonedearie resurrected the CS thread, trying to stimulate some positive discussion. That was seven hours ago. But instead of having a constructive discussion on there about a ship that you love, you are choosing to frequent the “anti-CS” thread, engaging all of the “bitter” people in petty arguments. Why is that I wonder?
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