Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Character discussion › Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire
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April 26, 2017 at 7:40 am #337246SlurpeezParticipant
On her Instagram, JMo recently wrote about Emma’s wedding dress She wrote:
“…Eddy, Adam, Edwardo, and I felt it would be wonderful to pull from the real life fairy tale of Grace Kelly. It is a dress that represents the elegance and simplicity of classic timeless strength mixed with the delicacy of feminity and vulnerability.
I think JMo is once again missing the point of many people’s complaints about Emma’s wedding dress. While I understand that it does take a special kind of courage for some women to be vulnerable, especially those who suffer from abandonment issues, I think it is completely the wrong message to send about Grace Kelly. At the end of the day, a dress is just a dress, but as Kiki’s wrote in her post, Grace Kelly did not live a “real life fairy tale” as JMo claimed. Grace Kelly had to give up everything to marry the prince. It’s the age-old problem with princess fairytales where the woman has to stop being who she is, or worse, never develop into the person she could be, just to be married. Grace Kelly had to stop acting, and it wasn’t her choice, as Kiki pointed out in her post. Grace was deeply unhappy in her marriage, and she tragically died young. If anything, Grace Kelly’s story should be a cautionary tale not to give up a potentially long career to marry someone who didn’t believe in her and only saw her as a movie-star fantasy or as an ideal princess, rather than a real woman with talents, flaws, and all (which I think her royal husband did).
Now, of course it depends on the prince. In real life, Prince William sounds like a much better husband than say his own father or Prince Rainier of Monaco. In general, there is nothing wrong with being married or vulnerable with one’s spouse either. However, if that spouse prevents you from being you, then that is where the real problem is. I don’t think that Emma is being her true self with Hook. Yes, he loves her and she loves him, but I think they love ideal images of one another the way that Prince Rainier seemed to love a Hollywood version of Grace Kelly and she seemed to be more in love with the idea of being royal than with the actual man behind the royal facade. Emma loves the ideal man in her head — one who is always honest with her and always does things together with her. Hook hasn’t been able to live up to this fantasy in Emma’s mind, nor has Emma always lived up to Hook’s ideal fantasy of his perfect princess savior girlfriend. Remember when he said that he had loved her before she became the dark one, and then he rejected her when she became the dark one. That was before he even got his memories back of the terrible way that she had betrayed him in Camelot. Sure, I don’t doubt that they love each other on some level, but I just don’t see how they bring out the best in each other. We haven’t been shown reasons to believe that Hook and Emma trust each other; in fact, we’ve been shown really good reasons not to believe that they trust each other. They still keep secrets from each other all the time, and Emma just excuses every thing Hook has done to her. In season five, their love was directly shown to be like a weapon when their names were written side by side on an actual sword. That is some very heavy-handed symbolism that reveals how dangerous that so-called love really is. Captain Hook is not Prince Charming, and Emma is not some fairy-tale princess. As she said in the story, she is a real person. (Not that this TV show is reality, but in the story, Emma is supposed to represent the audience, not some fairytale idealized princess that Hook would like her to be).
That is what was so great about Emma and Neal’s dynamic. She didn’t have to be “The Savior” or “Princess Emma.” No, she was simply Emma, a lost girl, who grew up alone in the real world but who found a home in the back seat of a stolen car with a lost boy who also grew up alone in the real world. That was the real happy ending. That was the way it was meant to be from the start: Emma, Neal, and Henry were all “real-life” fairytale characters from the real world. They didn’t get to live a care-free fantasy life, but they found each other again against all odds and were set to get their second chance together again. That was it: that was the narrative structure, and the writers threw the baby out with the bathwater when they changed the story. But I’ve no doubt that it was always meant to be lost girl meets lost boy in the real world, they fall in love, have a baby, and the boy finds them again and they reconcile. That’s it. That was the modern, real-world fairytale they were going for, not some Princess Grace cautionary-fairytale story. *sigh*
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
April 26, 2017 at 9:12 am #337248nevermoreParticipant(Not that this TV show is reality, but in the story, Emma is supposed to represent the audience, not some fairytale idealized princess that Hook would like her to be).
Ah, yes! This! Thank you, @Slurpeez, that helps me understand why I think my empathy with Emma has eroded — she is no longer the “meta” voice that is simultaneously outside and inside the story.
But I’ve no doubt that it was always meant to be lost girl meets lost boy in the real world, they fall in love, have a baby, and the boy finds them again and they reconcile. That’s it. That was the modern, real-world fairytale they were going for, not some Princess Grace cautionary-fairytale story. *sigh*
I think Emma’s story was about, first of all, healing the rifts of the big kinship tree at the center of OUAT. She was the girl that her parents were forced to abandon, and who herself was forced to abandon her child. Neal was the kid whom his father did not choose, and who was himself unable to choose his son (for different reasons). By healing these generational rifts, this central pivot of the 3 generation structure (Neal/Emma) also would have healed the other generational abandonment traumas — mainly, Regina’s and Rumple’s, the causes behind the Dark Curse that effected the separation in the first place. That was the structure of this story, I think.
I posted this in the CS thread, but Emma’s position has shifted structurally, not just affectively/emotionally. In some ways, Neal was to Rumple what Robin was to Regina — the person who ends up paying for the sins of the villain, simultaneously redeeming them through loss/grief, and depriving them of their happy ending (which villains, as we know, don’t get). From this perspective, when Emma is worried that if she dies she will deprive Hook of his happy ending she is exactly right. This is, now, precisely her status, structurally speaking, to the rest of the narrative and the villains/happy endings mechanics.
April 26, 2017 at 10:02 am #337252RumplesGirlKeymasterThat is what was so great about Emma and Neal’s dynamic. She didn’t have to be “The Savior” or “Princess Emma.” No, she was simply Emma, a lost girl, who grew up alone in the real world but who found a home in the back seat of a stolen car with a lost boy who also grew up alone in the real world.
And he didn’t have to be Baelfire–the lost boy who’s own father chose dark magic over him. He could be Neal.
“He was always Neal to me” coupled with Neal telling Rumple “It’s Neal!” always stood out as a way to telegraph to the audience that these two got each other, when no one else did.
I think Emma’s story was about, first of all, healing the rifts of the big kinship tree at the center of OUAT. She was the girl that her parents were forced to abandon, and who herself was forced to abandon her child. Neal was the kid whom his father did not choose, and who was himself unable to choose his son (for different reasons). By healing these generational rifts, this central pivot of the 3 generation structure (Neal/Emma) also would have healed the other generational abandonment traumas — mainly, Regina’s and Rumple’s, the causes behind the Dark Curse that effected the separation in the first place. That was the structure of this story, I think.
That’s exactly the structure of the story. Emma heals the rift between Snow/Regina while healing her abandonment issues with Snowing. Neal heals the rift between Rumple/Hook/the world while healing his abandonment issues with Rumple. And Henry serves to help rebond Emma and Neal after what happened between the two of them. Together, SwanFire family breaks the cycle.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 26, 2017 at 11:04 am #337259hjbauParticipantThey were definitely going for the new modern day fairytale characters in Emma, Neal, and Henry. Everything about the structure of the arc begins that way and builds that way. We see all the broken families left behind by the feud between the families and by the curse and that Emma and Neal with Henry were supposed to be the tie that brings that all back together and heals those wounds. That is all gone now and now it is just random whatever happening until the show finally ends.
April 26, 2017 at 1:18 pm #337262AKAParticipant’m at the point with this show where I would gladly suffer CS and those horrible morals/tropes I see if it just meant I had Nealfire back. Like give me Neal, Rumple, Henry as a little unit trying to heal all the abandonment issues and CS can go do whatever they want because that’s how bad I feel Emma’s character has gotten over the past few years.
I agree completely. I like Nevermore came at Neal/Bae from a Rumple fan view. So at this point I would not want Emma with Neal, I just wanted more of this
And I most certainly would have LOVED to see more of this
And Wouldn’t it have been great just to see this, but of course that would mean having to mention more than in just passing, that Neal/Bae was ever part of the show. I mean we wouldn’t want to upset the CS shippers.
April 26, 2017 at 2:45 pm #337264TheWatcherParticipantGrace Kelly did not live a “real life fairy tale” as JMo claimed. Grace Kelly had to give up everything to marry the prince. It’s the age-old problem with princess fairytales where the woman has to stop being who she is, or worse, never develop into the person she could be, just to be married. Grace Kelly had to stop acting, and it wasn’t her choice, as Kiki pointed out in her post. Grace was deeply unhappy in her marriage, and she tragically died young. If anything, Grace Kelly’s story should be a cautionary tale not to give up a potentially long career to marry someone who didn’t believe in her and only saw her as a movie-star fantasy or as an ideal princess, rather than a real woman with talents, flaws, and all (which I think her royal husband did).
Its moments like these that i wonder if A&E do this stuff intentionally…..
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICApril 26, 2017 at 3:08 pm #337267RumplesGirlKeymasterIts moments like these that i wonder if A&E do this stuff intentionally…..
I’ve always been on board the “they do nothing intentionally” train but…this wedding dress coupled with the way they’ve been dressing Emma this season both with Hook (dark, buttoned up, ugly clothing, minimal make up, long sleeves) and without Hook (red Savior coats) makes me wonder if someone somewhere isn’t doing something intentionally.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 26, 2017 at 3:31 pm #337268RainbowParticipantHappy Birthday RG!!!!!
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
April 26, 2017 at 5:09 pm #337280RumplesGirlKeymasterThanks Rainbow 🙂
Also, here’s another really nice costume post about the wedding dress
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 26, 2017 at 6:14 pm #337288WickedRegalParticipantHappy B’DAY @RG!!!!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
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