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"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Has anyone watched the show called “Episodes”? I binge watched it a couple of weeks ago. That was what got me interested in news about ouat. I haven’t thought about this show for years. After the 5th season when they all went to the land of the dead and STILL Neal wasn’t brought back, I just gave up and let go completely. The I watched this series called “Episodes” which I highly recommend (it was recommended to me by Netflix) and it really got me thinking: In the show, two writers are writing a TV show that has been picked up by some network. Those writers had a GREAT show, but to make a long story short, the network ruined it completely until the show had to be cancelled. First they forced an actor on them. (it made me think that maybe Hook was forced on A&E?) Then one thing led to another, until the show was unrecognizable from the original one they were making. Also, politics like a network dislikes an actor, and forces the writers to write him off the show (which made me think of Neal?) I don’t know how it went at ABC and regular audience will never ever be told, but according that show “Episodes” you get a lot of inside information on how a TV show gets ruined. And sometimes, the writers could be brilliant as A&E proved to be in the second and half of third season, but it will still be crap if the network mixes in too much. So the reason i got some small hope is because no matter how much the network might hate Neal or love Hook, if the show was cancelled, shouldn’t the writers be allowed to bring whoeevr they want for the finale and fimish THEIR story however they want?
I definitely think that ABC did effect the plot of this show greatly. They did push for Hook and for getting rid of Neal, for sure. The writers even said stuff about the ABC execs saying they kept asking for Hook to be put into scenes that it didn’t even really make sense that he would be in. It was a tongue and cheek answer, but it was based on the truth that the network wanted more Hook to a point that was detrimental to the story.
That doesn’t change the fact though that the writers also liked Hook at first and decided to insert him into the present day scenes after filming had already began and that decision then snowballed out of hand. I think, at first, the audience liked Hook as a villain who was sarcastic and silly, but would eventually be defeated. The problem happened when this led to him being rewritten between Seasons 2 and 3 into a potential love interest for Emma. It is very clear in Seasons 1 and 2 that Neal/Bae is where the show is leading. There is no romance between Emma and Hook in Season 2. Hook doesn’t exist in Season 1. Then randomly for Season 3, Emma is suddenly considering him as a potential love interest, the show jumps the shark, and a love triangle is created out of thin air.
I think that this decision was pushed by ABC and it was this decision that led to the eventual removal of Neal/Bae and the complete destruction of the story and the mythology and the family part of the show and from that decision the show became unfixable. I don’t really forgive the writers for this decision because based on their actions and how they discuss the show, even though i think that Adam is more aware that things went wrong then Eddy is, i still think that they didn’t really fight ABC when the network starting pushing things in that direction and possible could have thought it was a good idea. The fault is just as much theirs as it is the networks.
The removal of Bae is very similar to the now removal of Emma. Bae’s story and his use as the connection between Rumpel and the family, the connection to Emma’s past, the connection to Rumpel’s history was too important to the larger plot of the show and the show never worked once he was removed. The show lost half of its mythology with his removal. The show now lost the second half with the removal of Emma. There are things that you can’t do on a show and removing your centers is one of them. I mean you can and can still plod along as if your show has a soul anymore, but it doesn’t, and people know that and the show lost half its soul with Bae’s removal and the other half with Emma’s.
Consider how sad it is that something which could have been so great ended up such an ugly mess.
I don’t blame A&E for casting Hook. I thought Hook was AWSOME in the second season. In fact, ouat became addictive in the second season. That’s when I started going online looking for people to talk to about it. During the first season I was just meh about the show. Hook started to annoy me in the third season and I was bored to death by him in the second half of the third season. Now I just HATE him. (up until season 5. I was stupid enough to believe that Bae will come back if the characters were going to ‘The Land Of The Dead’ I was sure he would come back so I quickly binge-watched season 4 and first half of 5. Like an idiot. I haven’t watched it since.
If A&E won’t at least try to show us a semblance of what this (would-be beautiful) show could have been if ABC didn’t meddle, I am swearing off television altogether. Just think: what if this was cartoons instead of actors? What if this was written as a book series instead of TV series? Where would Bae have been now? Where would Gold have been now? I bet the story would have been so beautiful!It is extremely sad that something that could have been so great became so bad. They were allowed to use the Disney versions of the fairytale stories. Who knows when there will be another show that is able to do that?
Though, for me Season 1 is the only really good season. There are episodes i like in Season 2, but i think even it was a mess. The change in Regina’s character, or rather the other characters treatment of her character, between Season 1 and 2 was just as bad as the change in Hook’s character between Seasons 2 and 3.
I definitely think though the creation of the love triangle and then the death of Bae was the end for the show. The show was just never the same after that.
I agree though. Hook wasn’t that bad in Season 2. He was sarcastic and evil and there was nothing wrong with that, but even then i wasn’t interested in him. I found him fine as a background character, sometimes boring, but i didn’t really dislike his character. It was only in Season 3 that his character became unbearable and then once they completely rewrote Emma’s character for him, there was nothing but extreme dislike. Emma was my favorite and they ruined one of my favorite characters.
I really want to read or watch or hear that interview with MRJ and Robert Carlyle about Rumple and Bae. someone on tumblr said it was awesome. also on tumblr, violetfaust already had that idea about this whole ouat story after 3.11 was just a nightmare in the dark one’s vault. two different people thought of that, so who knows lol
I watch this show by downloading it and then watching on the computer. When the Bug came flying out of the trees, it started to buffer and jump around and the sound was messed up. That usually only happens if the computer is super low on memory, so I checked all that, even rebooted, but nope, it still buffered for just that part. It’s like my computer just could not deal with the SwanFire Bug coming to the rescue of the new TL couple who’d just been picking locks. Basically, the computer is me in that moment.
I watch this show by downloading it and then watching on the computer. When the Bug came flying out of the trees, it started to buffer and jump around and the sound was messed up. That usually only happens if the computer is super low on memory, so I checked all that, even rebooted, but nope, it still buffered for just that part. It’s like my computer just could not deal with the SwanFire Bug coming to the rescue of the new TL couple who’d just been picking locks. Basically, the computer is me in that moment.
My copy did the same thing. I take that it was an issue with the actual recording from the screen.
Call me crazy, but i am still hoping for a swanfire reunion in the finale. I know that i had high hopes at the end of season 3 and again at season 5 and was badly disappointed, but now at the end end end, maybe maaaayyyybe Hook will sail away on his ship never to be heard from again, and Bae will reunite with his family…? I still hold on to hope because they keep saying, they keep SAYING that in the end it will be a show about hope…
Call me crazy, but i am still hoping for a swanfire reunion in the finale. I know that i had high hopes at the end of season 3 and again at season 5 and was badly disappointed, but now at the end end end, maybe maaaayyyybe Hook will sail away on his ship never to be heard from again, and Bae will reunite with his family…? I still hold on to hope because they keep saying, they keep SAYING that in the end it will be a show about hope…
MRJ is in Europe filming a show, and jmo ended filming, not even a Rumple and Bae reunion in afterlife will be possible, because like I said Michael is not available and after their retcon about Bae, how they corrupt his soul, in something that even Neal/bae haters were against, saying that was a major and out of character story, against everything that has been said about the character in early seasons, I doubt they even like the character or care about it.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
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