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Its funny they used that dialogue again, Rumple girl. The Savior and the Reason, subtle clues, subtle clues.
So basically we have the Savior, the Reason, and the Believer! I often wonder if those three are united as a strong front, what type of magic would they produce.
But lets up it a notch, the Savior (Emma), The Reason (Neal), the Believer (Henry), the Caster (Regina), and the Creator (Rumple) what kind of magic would that produce if they all stand together as united front?
I like the sound of that we need a gif right away, with this!!!
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
So basically we have the Savior, the Reason, and the Believer! I often wonder if those three are united as a strong front, what type of magic would they produce.
In my VERY shippy headcanon, the SwanFire family’s love is responsible for healing the EF and creating a bridge between that world and ours. All three unique characters, all three experienced in our world, all three loving both worlds.
But lets up it a notch, the Savior (Emma), The Reason (Neal), the Believer (Henry), the Caster (Regina), and the Creator (Rumple) what kind of magic would that produce if they all stand together as united front?
YES! Powerful family is powerful.
I like the sound of that we need a gif right away, with this!!!
I am untalented in such things but if someone can get a GIF set , that’s awesome!!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Hook has so much in common with Disney’s Gaston.
Both have chest hair.
Both believe they’re irresistible to women.
Both have tried to kill “the beast”.
Both have dark hair.
Both have landed on the floor because of Belle.
Both had their arses kicked by “the beast”
Both had a hapless sidekick (Lefou/Smee)All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixSo many good posts, and I loved reading RG’s “The Heck?” post.
I do think the casual viewer doesn’t really remember the bad things a character does if it is not brought up on screen that much. I think about other shows where they have villains “reform” and really all they need is to show the good guys are ok with treating the villain like an old pal and then viewers mostly do too. Especially if the former villain is helpful in some way, to offset the previous harm done–but it can tank a show if not done right. It’s a trope really just as much as a false fiance. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn
So I’m thinking the casual viewer finds these two guys more of a toss up because they simplify it that “well both did bad things, and both love her, oh who is she going to choose! ” And right now, they’ve staged all the scenes to play up J.Mo’s chemistry with Colin. I think she has great chemistry with MRJ, but if every scene they have together is Emma looking upset, sad and emotional but not in a joyous way, that does sort of create the impression for someone not paying close attention to context, that she doesn’t want him around.
We see the little moments, where she was sitting next to him on a log, or smiling at his reconciliation, or overcome with reflected grief for him over his father’s death. Yet the writers chose not to have any extended dialog where she’s openly admitting she wants him in her life. We take it as “She’s so scared she’s pushing him away, because she’s afraid of having happiness” but I definitely see why others see it as “She just doesn’t want him.”
I think those little clues still being in the story as Phee talked about suggest the writers haven’t scrapped SF at all, but wanted to please the fans wanting to see some CS and let it play out in a way that didn’t come out of nowhere for Emma. So they made Neal “die”, and put Emma in NL relying on Hook as a guide. They created this most contrived situation of the Echo Cave in order to have Hook admit he finally is over Milah because of Emma, while Emma admits to Neal this very emotional but almost contradictory thing–I’ll always love you but I’m not happy to see that you’re alive. A lot of people took it as she wished he was dead, but that’s not what she said. It’s easy to forget context, but they were in NL, a dangerous place with horrible memories for Neal. His son was kidnapped. He wasn’t at an end of suffering, he was about to endure so much more, and she might have to see that and go through the pain of losing him again. She said she didn’t think she could handle that.
Of course, the finale makes her experience just that, and Neal is able to reassure her, and hug her, but these sneaky writers, the have Hook be the one to show up at her door. I feel that’s more of the “it’s not so easy yet for the Happy Ending” thing, and fan pleasing all at once. No CS fan is going to accept opinions or interpretations from other fans just like no SF fan would–so as RG’s said many times–it sort of has to play out if the writers aren’t going to tank their ratings.
They have to take time to set up why Emma chooses whoever she does, and to really do that, we need to see her really being given the opportunity to have all the information the audience kind of does about these guys. I feel that means there’s a lot of positive things about Neal she never knew, and conversely, a lot of negative things about Hook that she seemingly pushed out of her mind, and also a number of incidents she never knew. So we have to wait to see what the writers decided happened in the missing year and how these guys conducted themselves.
Hook is a pirate, and I wonder–what if the reason he is in NYC is similar to why August became the guardian angel–a bit of maneuvering? Geppetto had the BF lie about the wardrobe, and that’s why Snow didn’t raise Emma, and it fell to August who was too young for it. Yet Geppetto acted out of love, not a petty motive to hurt everyone, even if it does seem selfish from Snow and Emma’s perspective. So what if Hook refuses to help in the dangerous situation they’re in, unless he gets to be the one to go ? That might be why Charming is holding Neal back. I could see Hook saying “You had your shot mate, and it is my turn now, but I will bring her back, for I am a man of honor, and I love her too.” I could see him steal the memory potion they make to take to Emma. They might even tell him there’s no way to break the memory curse without it, for example, Belle or BF should know it, even with true love, especially with the limited magic in NY where Emma is. So that would make CS fans happy because it establishes why Hooks kiss did nothing (which all we noncasual fans already know a kiss failing means nothing, only matters if it works) but in general, I don’t think a lot of them would find Hook acting piratey that way as off-putting, because it would be to them “See, he’s fighting for her, and he loves her, and look how Neal gives up.” Then for SF fans, it would be ok, Neal couldn’t go because of Hook being Hook, but come on “the heck”. When is he going to catch a break, and hopefully that happens when Emma sees the dreamcatcher and we get a realization from Emma that she’s still in love with Neal. Now she just has to get him, and then Hook has a realization as well that he’s been going about his happy ending the wrong way. Like Rumple and Regina, he has to give up what he thought it was all season long to find what it really is.”
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I do think the casual viewer doesn’t really remember the bad things a character does if it is not brought up on screen that much
I agree. Which is why I’m irritated that Neal’s “Tallahassee incident” is thrown in our face all the time (after all the crap I put you through, Emma, you don’t have to apologize to me…) while the misdeeds of other characters are left in the dust of last season.
They have to take time to set up why Emma chooses whoever she does, and to really do that, we need to see her really being given the opportunity to have all the information the audience kind of does about these guys. I feel that means there’s a lot of positive things about Neal she never knew, and conversely, a lot of negative things about Hook that she seemingly pushed out of her mind, and also a number of incidents she never knew. So we have to wait to see what the writers decided happened in the missing year and how these guys conducted themselves.
Yup. At this point for SF to be a believable endgame (and vice versa for CS) the writers have to show beyond a shadow of a doubt why the opposite won’t work out for Emma. And to me that means letting CS play out to the point where Emma realizes that all she has with Hook is chemistry and “adventure fun time!” Quiet moments that Emma craves are not in the cards with Hook.
Interesting theory KFC. I could see it happening that way too, though I think that after watching Rumple sacrifice himself, Hook knows that he needs to make his way down redemption road and doing something like what you’re proposing isn’t really good form.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Anyway. Slurpeez I keep re-reading your post from above. It’s so accurate and spot on.
Awe, thanks everyone! Just calling it as I see it . I think this is the story the writers are portraying based on the subtleties and really obvious declarations of love between Emma and Neal. Besides the fact that Emma has said three times that she loves Neal, always has, and always will ever since “Second Star to the Right,” I’ve also seen hints and glimmers of hope along the way:
- how Emma remembers things Neal taught her, how Emma intuitively understands Neal, the Lost Boy because she was a Lost Girl,
- the way Neal said “Emma” in 3×4 or how Emma said “home” in that episode,
- Rumple’s speech to Belle in 2×16 about how she makes him wan to return to the best version of himself, which is when the camera pans to Emma and Neal.
- how Rumple, Tamara and Snow all recognize the way Neal and Emma look at each other
Why continue to bring up these subtle, and not-so-sublte, hints of love between Neal and Emma only to then rip the rug from underneath them? That is all too common and depressing for couples who really love each other not to even try and give it another go. If Emma and Neal get back together, it will have the added bonus of being Henry’s happy ending, too; but the most compelling reason is that Emma and Neal will finally achieve their mutual dream of Tallahassee together.
Because it would mean he lost his mother and his love to the same person all over, that family unit torn apart yet again.
It would be tragic, but I don’t think this will happen. I think the writers intentionally have set up this awkward family dynamic between Hook and Neal for a reason. Hook’s happy ending may not be with Emma (though that is what he currently believes it to be); Hook’s real happy ending may be regaining a true sense of honor by helping Neal reunite with Emma and Henry. There is a reason that the writers have held off on Emma fully realizing the complicated history between Hook and Neal. The writers hinted at it in 3×4 when Emma and Hook were talking in Baelfire’s cave, and Hook said that Bae got his talent as an artist from his mother; Emma gave Hook a curious glance like, “How do you know about Neal’s mother?” And of course, Hook brushed the truth under the rug by saying he and Neal had spent some time together. Hook was anything but forthcoming with Emma, I think, because he doesn’t want to weird her out with the truth. Hook destroyed Neal’s family as a child by seducing his mother, and it might be hard for her to accept that shortcoming in Hook, because Hook knows Emma loves Neal. I think if/when that piece of information comes to light, it will cause Emma to see truthfully how much Nealfire has suffered because of not only Rumple’s actions, but also because of Hook’s. So, I think this triangle is bigger than just competing for Emma; it’s about Hook and Neal having a long history in which Hook was a lousy father figure to little Baelfire. Rumple and Regina have both scarified their happy endings with their son figures by putting them first: Rumple was willing to die to save his son and Regina was willing to let Emma raise her son without any memory of her. We’ve yet to see Hook make a huge self-sacrifice like Rumple and Regina which is why I don’t think he’s found his true redemption yet; I think that will only come when Hook realizes that doing the selfless thing of not standing in the way of Emma and Neal is good form. Until then, I think Hook is only fooling himself into thinking he’s a man of honor.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Besides the fact that Emma has said three times that she loves Neal, always has, and always will ever since “Second Star to the Right,”
Three times in the space of eight episodes (SSTTR – Ariel), which spanned a time frame of about a week. That’s a pretty good average, considering they’re not even a couple at the moment. Just sayin’.
Slurpeez108 wrote: Besides the fact that Emma has said three times that she loves Neal, always has, and always will ever since “Second Star to the Right,”
Three times in the space of eight episodes (SSTTR – Ariel), which spanned a time frame of about a week. That’s a pretty good average, considering they’re not even a couple at the moment. Just sayin’.
Absolutely. And the fact that she said it in front of others, which is a thing that does not come easy to Ms. Swan! She said it in front of her parents, two people who understand better than anyone those bumps on the road to true love and happily ever after.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So basically we have the Savior, the Reason, and the Believer! I often wonder if those three are united as a strong front, what type of magic would they produce.
I believe it would be the strongest magic of all: True Love!
kfchimera wrote: Hook is a pirate, and I wonder–what if the reason he is in NYC is similar to why August became the guardian angel–a bit of maneuvering? … I could see him steal the memory potion they make to take to Emma. They might even tell him there’s no way to break the memory curse without it, for example, Belle or BF should know it, even with true love, especially with the limited magic in NY where Emma is. So that would make CS fans happy because it establishes why Hooks kiss did nothing (which all we noncasual fans already know a kiss failing means nothing, only matters if it works) but in general, I don’t think a lot of them would find Hook acting piratey that way as off-putting, because it would be to them “See, he’s fighting for her, and he loves her, and look how Neal gives up.”
While the SF fan in my would like to see this happen for the sake of showing Hook’s true colors, I see a potential hole in this theory. True Love’s kiss with Emma should work even in A Land Without Magic. When Graham kissed Emma in “The Heart is a Lonely Hunter” he remembered his true identity, not because he and Emma had true love, but because Emma embodies it! There was no magic in Storybrooke at that point, so the fact that Emma was able to restore Graham’s rightful memories meant that the magic was emanating from within her. Likewise, when Emma awoke Henry from the sleeping curse, that magic was powerful enough not just to wake up Henry, but everybody in the entire town, despite the fact that Mr. Gold still had yet to bring magic to the entire town. That means that it was Emma’s magic, combined with her true love for Henry, which was emanated from her kiss, and this was done all without he presence of added magic (Mr. Gold hadn’t dropped the love potion in the well yet). That tells me a True Love kiss, especially one with Emma, ought to be powerful enough to awaken her, even in New York City. The fact that it didn’t work, could just mean Hook has yet to make cursed Emma to fall for him. Yet, the fact that spoilers reveal Emma will drink a potion (probably from the Blue Fairy), tells me that Hook is unable to successfully cause Emma in her cursed state to fall for him (probably because Emma was never in love with him even prior to losing her memories). If the way that Emma actually remembers her true identity is by seeing the dreamcatcher, in combination with drinking the potion, then it will be pretty clear (at least to us SF fans), that Emma’s true’s love is not Hook, but Neal!
kfchimera wrote: Then for SF fans, it would be ok, Neal couldn’t go because of Hook being Hook, but come on “the heck”. When is he going to catch a break, and hopefully that happens when Emma sees the dreamcatcher and we get a realization from Emma that she’s still in love with Neal. Now she just has to get him, and then Hook has a realization as well that he’s been going about his happy ending the wrong way. Like Rumple and Regina, he has to give up what he thought it was all season long to find what it really is.”
I agree with this part! I think that Hook has yet to make any real sacrifices of his own, as we saw both Rumple and Regina did in 3×11. It seems like for Hook to get his actual happy ending, he has to be willing to give up his current notion, which is Emma. I think Hook’s actual happy ending entails him regaining a true sense of honor, which would mean him doing a selfless thing and helping his son figure, Neal, to reunite with his family, Emma and Henry.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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