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Evidently Casper-Peeves ate one of my posts.
Some shippers, and I’m not saying what ship it is, are crowing on tumblr because SwanFire got “Worst Couple on TV” on Television Without Pity website. I quit going to that site in Season one. They’re all bitter shrews, sorry people from here that post there.
It’s still canon. They can all go suck a lemon.
Internet polls aren’t worth the space they take up on internet servers. They mean absolutely nothing except for who is willing to power vote in order to “win” when it doesn’t even matter as A and E are the only ones who get to decide this.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"TwOP forums are very appropriately named, there is no pity for anything!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
That is all.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I thought I will ‘pop in’ and say Hi! to SF shippers 🙂
Speaking of Emma and Neal together. I believe they should get 2nd chance and start a new relationship as adults, but Neal will have to apologize Emma for the treatment he gave her after his arrival to Storybrooke, or even the scenes in Manhattan. That wouldn’t be what you call ‘gentleman behavior’. He was simply mean to her, and she was clearly heartbroken. Although it will be interesting to see their proper interactions as adults, how they learn from each other how to be parents for Henry and what they learn about each other. Because they only know teens themselves, not adults selves.
"World can be amazing, when you're slightly strange"
1) Welcome Isabells! Nice to have someone who is open to both and hasn’t settled yet. Might I offer you some hot chocolate with cinnamon while you decide.
2) Watched Manhattan tonight. Had this thought: the Seer says there are two types of futures, what can be and what will be. Rumple sees the future and ships SwanFire like mad. I think this means he knows it will be and he wants his son to have his happy ending.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I agree they have a lot to learn about who the other truly is. I don’t think Neal treated her awfully though, sure he was no charming prince, but she was no princess either. It was a complicated situation.
First, you must remember he was just as heartbroken as she when he left, because on top of the hurt of being apart from the one you love, never knowing if you will see each other again, he knew he had the guilt of leaving her. Yet he had to make that decision and couldn’t tell her about it until after the curse so as not to get in the way (as August said). Similiar circumstance that Snow and Grumpy face really. Yet worse as they do not even get that bit of closure of saying goodbye.
This is the way the writers talk about what Neal did, so there are quotes floating around to support this interpretation . Emma did not see it that way for many years or at first but she did seem to be slowly warming to him when–Hook & Tamara happen.
Neal is sent reeling by his father’s impending death. Even before that though, he had reason to be upset (not at her, but by the situation of his evil father being there). Imagine little Henry if things got worse with Regina (say she killed Emma) running away and she tracked him down years later to say I love you. Would grown up Henry not have a right to be upset and not WANT to speak to a parent who could do something so horrible? We do not hear Neal’s reasons other than Rumple broke their deal, but we saw the evil deeds he did in front of his child. We know he killed Neal’s mother and we know Neal has been told he did. Neal had every right to insist on not seeing Rumple and to be upset.
I think people forget this, putting a frame of coward on him when it is not that. He is ANGRY with Rumple. As Regina told Cora, Henry would NEVER forgive her if she killed Emma & family. Rumple pretty much did just that to Bae by killing Milah and breaking the deal that would have brought back peasant papa rumple.
So I think people forget that context and see the more familiar story of a guy who broke a girl’s heart and not treating her right when they meet again. Neal quickly realizes Emma knows nothing about his past pain other than that he grew up without parents. He calms down, even though he must have a lot of recalled childhood trauma, because he does know that Emma’s pain and hurt is in that moment more important than his own. They both are honest, but it is brutal for both. She gets so emotional and distressed she calls her mother who tells her not to lie to Henry. The princess would be truthful but Emma does not take that advice. She goes inside and he makes that deal. I saw it as a test. Does she really never want to see me? he thinks.
He got to his apartment too quickly after so it seemed like he followed to make sure she would be ok. The writers also commented on this scene too, how they loved that he came back for her, what it showed of his feelings.
He does get upset again on learning Henry is his son and that she was not going to tell him, but again, he acknowledges her hurt and admits it is all messed up but they should avoid that cycle with Henry. Emma begins to cool in time but from there on out, he is not really mean. They are both sarcastic with each other of course, but they seem to read each other well on that. They know they are covering things with those remarks but neither is ready at that point to discuss it. He tries though.
She then overreacts to a few things despite insisting that she is over him. He tries to apologize for not bringing Tamara up sooner (and he did start to tell her earlier) but she snaps at him. He does not escalate any of the times she gets angry, whether it is yelling at him for not thinking about his fiance joining him there (remember he just found out he has a son and is reunited with his complicated father). He just went through battle twice by her side. When he says he needs Tamara, it is not to hurt Emma but he needed someone he thought loved him by his side and Emma has been insistent that she doesn’t.
I realize people can see his mannerisms differently, his choices less favorably from Emma’s point of view. As Emma would say, the thing is: he does apologize to her for everything.
Not everyone loves an angsty romance, where the characters say things that hurt the other, but through conversation and providing context to understand it, they come together. It’s just on a grander scale then real life relationships need.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Although it will be interesting to see their proper interactions as adults, how they learn from each other how to be parents for Henry and what they learn about each other. Because they only know teens themselves, not adults selves.
KFC’s post covers the other points you made so well that I’m just gonna respond to this bit, and say that yes, they definitely need to learn about each other again now that they’re both adults. They each still have a base understanding of where the other came from, and their younger selves are still a part of who they are, they just need to discover fully how the other has grown.
I tend to think that Neal has quietly been in awe over how truely awesome his Emma has become. His father caused this Curse to happen, and she came along to set things right. She hasn’t had much time to accept all the magic stuff, but she’s still thrown herself right into it and is learning to understand this whole new world. It’s the world that he came from, and for all the hurt that it caused that they’d come from that same place, on the other hand, it means that they ultimately fit together really well. When she does come to a place where she understands him completely, there’ll be nothing at all that he’ll need to hide about his past. They never could have had that kinda closeness if Emma was someone from our world.
And the way that Neal stepped right up to want to be a parent to Henry is surely something that Emma admires. It’s something she couldn’t do herself, but Neal has thrown himself right into it. The last she knew of him, she thought he was incredibly irresponsible, he was a criminal who left her to go to jail and all. But as soon as he was over the initial shock of Henry, he embraced the new responsibility, not just to be in Henry’s life for the sake of knowing him, but taking on the responsibility of stopping the cycle of abandonment. That shows some serious growth and maturity from the guy that Emma knew back in the day. Emma struggled with accepting any sort of parental role, and even decided to leave SB at one point. But the guy who ran away from her, he unquestioningly stayed for Henry.
So I think they each already have a bit of a sense of how the other has grown. There may be much more to learn, but I think they’ve already started down that track.
2) Watched Manhattan tonight. Had this thought: the Seer says there are two types of futures, what can be and what will be. Rumple sees the future and ships SwanFire like mad. I think this means he knows it will be and he wants his son to have his happy ending.
I think that even if he hadn’t “seen” it, he’d still ship it, purely because he’s witnessed them being brought back together even though they didn’t seek each other out, and Rumple is all about believing in things being destined like that.
I don’t think Neal treated her awfully though, sure he was no charming prince, but she was no princess either. It was a complicated situation.
Your whole post was fabulous! Really great analysis of how they interacted.
All I really have to add is that I think people who don’t ship it tend to see their general, snarky way of speaking to each other as being belittling each other, in particular when Neal’s the one doing the talking. As a shipper, I just love their sassy banter. Here’s a little vid that celebrates it…
As shown in that vid, these two have had the snark since the moment they met. This was their very first conversation ever…
Neal: Impressive. But really, you could’ve just asked me for the keys. Just drive. It’s fine.
Emma: I just stole your car. Your life could be in danger.
Neal: Neal Cassidy.
Emma: Yeah, I’m not telling you my name.
Neal: No, I don’t need it to have you arrested when the robbery’s in progress.
Emma: Emma. Swan.
Neal: Good name.
Emma: So, do you just live in here, or are you just waiting for the car to be stolen?
Neal: Why don’t I tell you over drinks?
Emma: Excuse me?
Neal: Hey. Eyes on the road.
(Emma runs a stop sign.)
Emma: I am not having drinks with you. You might be a pervert.
Neal: I might be a pervert, but you’re definitely a car thief.
Emma: I said I was sorry.
Neal: You didn’t, actually.
(A police car turns on the siren and begins to follow them.)
Neal: Oh…
Emma: Damn it.
Neal: That’s why I said ‘eyes on the road’.
(They pull over, but Neal notices the screwdriver still in the transmission.)
Neal: Screwdriver.
(He quickly pulls it out and replaces the screwdriver with the keys. A cop approaches the window.)
Cop: License and registration.
Emma: Hi.
Neal: Terribly sorry officer, but this is actually my car. I’m… I’m trying to, uh, teach my girlfriend how to drive stick.
Cop: She’s got a lot to learn.
Neal: I know. But, you know… Women.
Cop: Alright, I hear you. It’s a warning…this time.
Neal: Yeah. Thank you so much.
(The cop leaves and Neal gets in the front seat.)
Emma: What are you, some sort of a misogynist?
Neal: You’re welcome. Oh, go. We got lucky.
Emma: We? This isn’t your car either, is it? I stole a stolen car?
Neal: Now, how about that drink?Neal being snarky with her in SB is nothing new. It’s part of his charm that grabbed her from the moment they met.
Aww thanks RG–I was so worried I’d be too hard on Rumple and it would come across like I’m blaming him for everything bad Neal did, but I am not. Neal still had to make choices and explain those to Emma and eventually apologize., which he did. Now he just needs Papa.
I hope Neal’s anger fades and he gets a chance to see the changes Belle has brought out in Rumple. I want that reconciliation for them, but I know it may be a long road, just as it is for SF. I also wonder to what extent Rumple, given his quirks of personality, might be a factor in Neal and Emma’s relationship. I’ve seen the joke he ships it like Fed Ex, but in the context of Manhattan he wanted to manipulate Emma to get his son to come back to town. I think he does have a genuine respect for her though.
Phee: I agree with everything you said! Emma and Neal’s banter is filled with snark and love that!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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