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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
I think we should schedule a #SwanFireAppreciationDay
Lots of pretties 🙂
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think we should schedule a #SwanFireAppreciationDay Lots of pretties
I agree. How about Valentine’s Day? 😀
#MoreBOOMLessGloombesides, saying that Hook should do something for Bae in order to be redeemed – he’s already done ALOT for Bae – saved him in echo cave, and revealed his darkest secret which made him vulnerable in front of the others to save his rival, basically.
but it still doesn’t redeem him because he has to face up to his mistakes of the past. no one ever talks about him giving bae to the lost boys, or challenging a cripple to a duel, or running away with a mother of a child without ever coming back to visit that poor child…
he needs to do MORE for his redemption to be complete, and dying to save Baelfire so that Emma can have a happy ending is just not heroic enough.
He must admit he was wrong all those years ago. he must call himself a villain. Regina did it, Rumpel did it, that’s why their sacrifice is believable.
RumplesGirl wrote: I think we should schedule a #SwanFireAppreciationDay Lots of pretties
I agree. How about Valentine’s Day?
ABSOLUTELY!
Marty:
I think we’ll just agree to disagree. I think there’s a lot rug sweeping going on but I also think that it’s happening with every character. I think dying to save people you love is heroic. But if you don’t that’s fine.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think the difference between Hook and Regina and Rumple is –he’s not touched directly by the corrupting influence of dark magic. Everything he’s done, has been purely his own choices far as we can see in response to circumstances. Moreover, he feels those actions are completely justified!
That’s the problem as to why he’s neither hero or villain but pirate. He’s not actually right that he’s been honorable. Revenge is a problematic goal even if sympathetic at times, but not (as Mulan and Charming point out) to be confused with justice. Hook went so far over the line in pursuit of his revenge that he didn’t care that he actively supported the cause of Cora, even after she killed an entire village. He became a pirate to avoid serving a king who would use a deadly poison and here he’s fallen to partnering with anyone who would help him, no matter how evil and destructive they were. I don’t consider it honorable. Of course we talk about his actions with Emma, then Belle, and again, I don’t see honor in what he did. He does, but more importantly, he thinks Emma did.
I think she expressed outright that she didn’t approve with her facial expression and tone of voice. She sounded upset he hurt Belle, not understanding and happy he’d done “quality damage” to his foe. Yes, she has some sympathy for him because she can see his desire to hurt others comes from having lost and suffered. She identifies with loss and suffering and it is part of what makes her sympathetic at times to Regina. Emma gets that feeling of being against the world but she’s not really been shown to be the kind of person who so feels cheated by society she lost all hope of following its conventions and moral codes.
In other words, while Emma might not be as turned off by a Pirate as Charming thinks she should be, she also isn’t going to be as impressed by a so-called man of honor as Hook thinks he is. Emma doesn’t see the world that way. She called Regina a sociopath in season 1. Not evil, a sociopath. She thinks of Hook as a criminal of limited danger compared to the other problems but honorable or not, the question I think on her mind is what sort of guy is this? Can she trust him to do right by her and her family, especially when she isn’t looking?
I think Hook’s made strides to change but he’s written so ambiguously sometimes. What deals did he make with Pan? I think maybe his “last job” as he said to Tamara was the last job to kill Rumple. If he didn’t trust Pan, thought him a demon, had failed to do his job for him, why would he make a deal for him? Why trust that Pan would play fair? It’s a soft-ball thing and then there’s telling them about Neal. Yes, your friend and a potential rival but let’s not forget: KNOWS THE WAY OFF THE ISLAND. Nothing in it for Hook? I need that gif of Regina saying “I don’t think so.”
So Hook’s had some pretty odd situations where he does have a lot of self-interest to pursue in what he does, just as Gold was not being kind to help out Charming because he was “invested in his future”. I’m not saying Gold doing things for Belle or Bae’s sake is selfish its not as selfless as someone helping a complete stranger with no expectation of any reward. Like Regina on the horse with Snow. Then you have acts like Ruth, sacrificing her life for her son and his wife. She loves them, and it’s a bit of her own happiness to see them happy. There’s a range to heroic/good acts as there is to evil/selfish actions.
I feel Hook ‘s “good” is similar to his “bad” –he’s got an angle he’s working its not for the sake of the pleasure of helping others or hurting others. It’s about him and how it will or won’t get him what he wants and right now? He wants Emma to feel about him as he does about her. It would be quite a test of his redemption to see if he would carry on even if he KNEW he’d never have her love. What would he do? It’s sort of like Gold’s problem with Lacey. He wasn’t redeemed and good then because he loved her, when she encouraged his evil acts. Love isn’t itself a heroic thing if it leads to selfishly hurting others for the sake of that love. Emma doesn’t owe Neal anything so its not so much that Hook’s hurting Neal by also pursuing Emma, but he certainly isn’t being considerate of someone he wants to call a friend, someone he knows he injured in the past by helping his mother to abandon him, oh and traumatizing him by trying to kill his father (even if yes, his father was not innocent either, having killed the mother!).
Gold, Regina and Hook are all complicated and different in the ways they are and have been selfish but Gold and Regina put aside their OWN happiness for others at the end of last season. Hook didn’t really quite do that, he sort of seemed like he was going to but seemed like he changed his mind. Far as SF though, I’ve never felt it was that Hook couldn’t grow and change to be someone Emma would love–its that I felt he hadn’t yet taken the steps, and to the extent he had, it still didn’t matter as Emma loves Neal. I don’t think Emma just sees pain and loss with Neal as some think.
I don’t think Hook understands Emma so much better. Pan’s map? That was a trick designed to undermine Emma’s confidence. So sure, Hook (through overhearing and deduction) realized Emma was an orphan, vulnerable lost girl but seriously, that’s not who she is meant to be. That’s not her “best self” and I don’t think that was who she felt she was with Neal. They were a capable team and she had pride in saying he taught her things. She trusts him to get her back. Not to go in front of her and protect her, but to get her back. She’s so confident with him that she takes the lead, and Neal supports her mostly (aside from Tamara but that was complicated).
We’ve yet to see Neal really question her decisions with Henry, other than her first one to keep him out of Henry’s life. She was wrong there. Believe it or not, Emma can be wrong. She apologized to Henry but she never really apologized to Neal either–yet he says she never has to apologize to him, ever for anything. He knows he’s put her through a lot, but he wants to earn back that trust and I think he was doing it. Step by step, the same way Henry melted her walls and he just didn’t have enough time with the new fairy-tale obstacle put between them.
I don’t know what the writers have in mind. It feels like maybe they just want to toss all the backstory away and forget and just start this season with new characters who tangentially have the same names as the old ones, except for the one they’re going to kill off. No idea if they’ll be that bad in the writing but if they pick Neal and change Emma from actually loving him to just having been wounded deeply by him, then that’s what I think it would feel like.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Remembering SwanFire
Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking StickSeriously? Did they ever follow him?
It seems to me that if they aren’t following him, then there is something fishy about the “story-driven” idea if Neal is the one killed off. Why not promote the actor at least that little bit if it is a mutually agreed upon thing, like for example Robbie Kay or Barbara Hershey that the character has a short arc and just for a season? Why would there be this suggestion of bad blood between the marketing person (who didn’t tweet his birthday like the other December cast) and MRJ in a personal sense? I’m just saying it is not professional. If he’s already not part of the cast at some point would make sense to maybe stop following him, but now? Why? Now if we’re talking a Shannen Doherty type situation, where MRJ had creative difficulties with the cast/crew and was basically fired, I could see that. But why would the marketing team want to spill the beans of which character is off the show?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Seriously? Did they ever follow him?
That’s my question too. Frankly I’ve wondered for a while if whoever manages that account is a Neal-hating ABC intern. They don’t even respect the character enough to spell his name right. Looks like they’re also not following Sean. I wouldn’t put much stock in it.
PS. KFC, LET ME MARRY EVERY WORD OF THAT LONG POST!
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