- This topic has 25,813 replies, 124 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Great posts Phee! I loved that explanation of misconceptions from Tumblr. We have some (or had some) very long answers to those kinds of questions on our sorts of debate threads at one point. A lot centered around the assumptions people make about things off-screen, particularly assumptions that might change the meaning of what was shown on-screen. I think for the most part those things defending Neal are straight deductions from the scenes we saw.
Its interesting too how people diminish the importance of the fact that Emma loves Neal. It’s not a one-sided thing, nor ever was. She felt so devastated not just because she wound up alone and heartbroken, but because of the depth of the love that went before. She did have trust issues before, and the walls went back up even stronger after, but she at least had the idea of what it felt like to be loved. She kept that pendant, the bug, and a flame of hope. That’s the phrase J.Mo’s used talking about Emma with various guys, and if you ask me, its a kind of imagery of love as fire that the writers have used with the relationship between Neal and Emma. They “Rekindled” their feelings as he fell in the portal, they said. These guys are writers. Baelfire. Flame of Hope. Rekindle. Emma doesn’t wish Neal to be dead. She wishes, if anything, that she could be stronger and less afraid of losing him. Notice what Emma does at the start of the season. She’s doing pull-ups. Strengthening her arms. How did she lose Neal? She physically could not pull his body weight up out of the portal. Some say her magic should have kicked in but I have a very Emma-like response to that. Seriously? Magic isn’t something she really knows how to use on command and it still shocks her that she can. Her magic didn’t get her down off the post when she dangled over that portal either. Neal did. Maybe it was a Terminator nod, to show her doing pull-ups but really, who would think there’d be a spot for that in a pirate ship? It’s not the first thing I think of that its some kind of weightlifting gym! If they just wanted Hook walking in with a slightly suggestive air to her being breathy and sweaty, they could have had her doing pushups. (and probably easier on J.Mo!).
Anyway, when Hook tells Emma he’s never seen her fail, it struck me as kind of funny because not only HAS he seen her fail (and most epically rubbed it in by calling her dried up, dead useless), Emma knows she’s failed other times too. She’s no Peter Pan, let’s put it that way. She failed to save Neal, Graham, and as I said that time in the cell. Snow saved the day there, and Emma knows it. I know he was giving her some positivity, and she did need some positive thinking, but more she needed courage to face loss and keep going. The important thing isn’t that Emma never fails. The important thing is that even where she’s failed, she’s picked herself up and kept fighting back. This is especially so with her reaction after Neal falls, when you think about Rumple’s giving up. She’s still fighting for Henry, for all of them, even for Regina, but he more or less makes his peace with it. So in the end, what Emma is struggling with here isn’t “confidence” to get her son back, but the courage to go forward even knowing the risks of losing others that she loves in that process.
It is even funnier, when Emma did sort of fail to get Henry off the island, because without Regina, she would have been stuck on that tree. Regina broke free and pulled out Pan, and without Neal, they wouldn’t have left that island. Regina’s magic made that shadow-sail, and it was Neal’s idea. The three of them, Henry’s parents rescued him. Emma played her part too, especially in SB where she realized Pan’s body-swap and neither Neal or Regina did. Yet the point I’m making here is that it wasn’t just Emma being confident that allowed her to get her son back. Despite Pan’s words that she was the “only ” one who could her son back, the truth was, she needed teamwork. Something Emma herself realized at the start of the journey with her leap of faith. You’ll fail time to time, that’s life, but when you have others to love you and who you love, you pick yourself up and try again. In relationships too, sometimes there’s misunderstandings. Sometimes things happen (especially in a fairy tale world with curses and such) to force you apart. Emma’s still learning this lesson, which is why I feel so much that the story of her relationship to Neal isn’t simply about putting him behind her so she can find a new love with no mistakes or things to understand, because really that’s not going to happen either (wouldn’t be a good story if it did!). It’s about fixing a relationship that may have been broken but wasn’t a bad relationship in terms of how they treated each other. Neal loves her, tries to do right by her, give her confidence by letting her take the lead and watching her back, and he’s willing to listen to her. He loves her even if she’s shouting him at him. Maybe especially when, because he knows what to say to calm her down, to get them back on track. There’s a give and take here, and a rhythm that these two might find again, once Emma realizes she does deserve happiness even as the Savior.[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Its interesting too how people diminish the importance of the fact that Emma loves Neal. It’s not a one-sided thing, nor ever was.
The same people who diminish that fact also misinterpret her line about having hoped he was really dead.
She kept that pendant, the bug, and a flame of hope. That’s the phrase J.Mo’s used talking about Emma with various guys, and if you ask me, its a kind of imagery of love as fire that the writers have used with the relationship between Neal and Emma. They “Rekindled” their feelings as he fell in the portal, they said. These guys are writers. Baelfire. Flame of Hope. Rekindle.
Don’t forget Phoenix. How many notable city names in the US, and they chose the one that’s the name of a mythical firebird that rises from the ashes.
Emma doesn’t wish Neal to be dead. She wishes, if anything, that she could be stronger and less afraid of losing him. Notice what Emma does at the start of the season. She’s doing pull-ups. Strengthening her arms. How did she lose Neal? She physically could not pull his body weight up out of the portal.
Yes! She blames herself for not having been strong enough to pull him out and now she’s trying to compensate. Urgh, saddest pull ups ever.
Anyway, when Hook tells Emma he’s never seen her fail, it struck me as kind of funny because not only HAS he seen her fail (and most epically rubbed it in by calling her dried up, dead useless), Emma knows she’s failed other times too. She’s no Peter Pan, let’s put it that way. She failed to save Neal, Graham, and as I said that time in the cell. Snow saved the day there, and Emma knows it. I know he was giving her some positivity, and she did need some positive thinking, but more she needed courage to face loss and keep going. The important thing isn’t that Emma never fails. The important thing is that even where she’s failed, she’s picked herself up and kept fighting back.
We also have Neal telling her, “Don’t worry about it, you’ll figure it out. If there’s one thing I know about you, you don’t stop until you find what you’re looking for.” Similar to what Hook said, but also different. The way Neal said it wasn’t, “you’re invincible and never fail” it was “you’re persistent, no matter if you get knocked down along the way, you always get there in the end,” which is more realistic, believable, and encouraging of a sentiment.
It is even funnier, when Emma did sort of fail to get Henry off the island, because without Regina, she would have been stuck on that tree. Regina broke free and pulled out Pan, and without Neal, they wouldn’t have left that island. Regina’s magic made that shadow-sail, and it was Neal’s idea. The three of them, Henry’s parents rescued him.
And I love that! Team SwanFireQueen FTW.
I have nothing to add except *applause* for Phee and KFC
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Christopher Gorham has been spotted in one of the leaked pics for 3×16! Remember this recent spoiler from TVGuide?
Just a heads up, @katmtan on twitter said Christopher Gorham was not filming , he was just visiting the set but not part of the takes. Not sure at this point if that’s accurate, but thought I should throw that out there. On my phone so can’t get to the tweet easily at the moment.
Keeper Nealfire's/Bae's scarf, Henry and Neal's bribery ice cream sundae, Baelfire's sword, the coconut map, and more.
Laurel, that’s what Kat said, but then we got pics of him standing VERY close to them filming the scene where Regina walks up. I’m not sure why he’d have been there after midnight, in the cold, standing that close to the filming, if he was just hanging out for the helluvit to visit the set.
And I’m curious if he was in the scene, and if he was, what’s that red splotchy thing on his jacket? If its a maple leaf, and he was in Canada, and met Neal…..perhaps he’s important to Emma because he’s someone who had a role in Neal ‘s life in some way?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Awesome, hadn’t seen those updates yet. Thanks for clarifying, Phee!
Keeper Nealfire's/Bae's scarf, Henry and Neal's bribery ice cream sundae, Baelfire's sword, the coconut map, and more.
maybe Gorham is an old friend of Emma and Neal’s? From their thieving days?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"In relationships too, sometimes there’s misunderstandings. Sometimes things happen (especially in a fairy tale world with curses and such) to force you apart. Emma’s still learning this lesson, which is why I feel so much that the story of her relationship to Neal isn’t simply about putting him behind her so she can find a new love with no mistakes or things to understand, because really that’s not going to happen either (wouldn’t be a good story if it did!). It’s about fixing a relationship that may have been broken but wasn’t a bad relationship in terms of how they treated each other. Neal loves her, tries to do right by her, give her confidence by letting her take the lead and watching her back, and he’s willing to listen to her. He loves her even if she’s shouting him at him. Maybe especially when, because he knows what to say to calm her down, to get them back on track. There’s a give and take here, and a rhythm that these two might find again, once Emma realizes she does deserve happiness even as the Savior.
Bravo! I want to hug this post! Real love isn’t just about romantic notions; it’s about learning how to forgive, communicate, reconcile and resolve issues. The first euphoric feelings of being in love fade after a time for all romantic couples, but what remains are deep friendship, trust, deep affection, mutual affirmation, and deepening love for one another and family. Those are the important things that keep a couple together. Neal is ready to make her and Henry a commitment and Emma will soon face the choice to be together. She has to take that leap of faith to look for the good moments and to have hope for her own happy ending.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
The topic ‘Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire’ is closed to new replies.