Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[kfchimera]

I agree with Phee, at most I expect a small genuine smile that he’s there, he’s alive and boom, an attack or something.

We shippers ache to see the happy moments, but the writers get the big grins for the situations that torture the characters.  That is what makes them smile and laugh, knowing that those situations create the conflict with uncertainty that will drive viewers to tune  in.

I do think they are invested in all the characters they create, but in many ways, they are Peter Pan playing games with their audience.  Peter Pan’s comments could easily be a writer reacting to fandom reacting to plot decisions and characters.  “It is much easier to make people hate than believe.”    Most certainly that applies to shipping.

So I do worry, are these guys going to react to the constant negative comments from a small part of the fanbase that is well represented on twitter and tumblr? When I see reviews from less internet based, more general audience sources like grandmotherly Barbara Barnett, the audience is rooting for Neal and Emma.  It is only here online that I ever got the sense that people thought the story was the other way around, that we were supposed to root for her to break his heart, in even more spectacular fashion than he broke hers, and for far less noble a reason than “I needed to get out of the way of a curse.”  He did take up with Tamara, but she’s had moments with Graham, August and to some extent Hook.   I can’t see Emma faulting him as much as the fanbase does for getting involved with someone else, but then I wasnt’ quite expecting her to take David and MM to task that much.

I felt though her issue wasn’t “you left me and I can’t trust you,” but it really was more what she said, the fact they left her was incidental to it, but she is the same age, she has had different experience, and they were not respecting her wisdom.  They were insisting they knew more and better and Emma is not a follower.  She doesn’t know or feel comfortable claiming herself a leader ( and I think this is where next week episode will go with parallels between Snowing arguing about claiming the kingdom or living on a small farm together ).    So with Neal the same thing applies, that he has missed a huge part of her life as an adult, and she of his, and are these two people who are in the same space in their lives for that rekindled love to blossom to full true love? I feel that’s a question the writers are posing, and exploring, and some fans shout resoundingly “Noooo!” and we here on this thread are saying “ooh, I hope so.”

If he enters her life expecting to pick up exactly where they left off, I can see Emma bristling at that.  Of course, with all the other characters in the mix, I don’t see how they could even for one second feel it was “them against the world again”–for both of them, there are too many people who matter now.  So they would have to find a different rhythm but I hope they will.  We just have to wait for more!

 

 

[Slurpeez]

@Phee, you’re evoking so many SF warm-fuzzy feelings! The SF fan in me really wants to see your sappy version of a SF reunion to happen, yet what I hope for and what I actually expect are two different things. Here is how I expect a SF reunion to really unfold:

• Emma is flabbergasted as to how Neal could have survived. He runs to her and they strongly embrace while Hook is standing by in the wing. (I don’t expect to see any actual CS romance prior to then more than flirtation. Please, see this hint from TV Line, but read it how you will).
• Emma and Neal will be more focused on rescuing Henry together than on their own relationship. They will work as partners and parents to save their son (along with Hook, Regina, Charming and Snow)
• Some drama unfold such that PP recognizes Bae, their history is revealed. There is also some connection between Hook and Peter which has yet to be revealed.
• Something happens to Emma, Hook and Bae, such that they’re lost in a jungle together and separated from Regina, Snow and Charming. Bae and Hook must work together, using their insider knowledge of NL, to work with Emma somehow to find PP’s lair. Together, the JR crew must work together to get back Peter or break whatever curse might bind PP and NL. PP wants is really a family. Big twist then happens.
• Only in the second part of S3 will Emma and Neal even have the chance of a would-be romantic reconciliation. There is also the question of whether Hook would set his feelings aside for present to allow Neal the opportunity to pursue Emma. Emma will keep both men at arm’s length, but some other adventure will cause her to realize her feelings for one man over the other. By the end of S3, Emma’s feelings for Neal will become increasingly evident (as if they weren’t already clear since she declared her love for him in 2×21). But the key thing for Emma to say those words again is for Bae to build trust with her. He must take things slowly with her, because he has so much to make up for and so many past hurts to overcome before they talk about getting back together romantically.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

He must take things slowly with her, because he has so much to make up for and so many past hurts to overcome before they talk about getting back together romantically.

Agreed. Fluffy is good–my entire thing is nothing BUT fluff–but reality needs to take precedence which is that they need to take it very slowly and work things out together.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Phee]

Peter Pan’s comments could easily be a writer reacting to fandom reacting to plot decisions and characters. “It is much easier to make people hate than believe.”

I’ll bet Adam thinks that line as a mantra whenever he goes to check his @ replies. 😛

So I do worry, are these guys going to react to the constant negative comments from a small part of the fanbase that is well represented on twitter and tumblr? When I see reviews from less internet based, more general audience sources like grandmotherly Barbara Barnett, the audience is rooting for Neal and Emma. It is only here online that I ever got the sense that people thought the story was the other way around, that we were supposed to root for her to break his heart, in even more spectacular fashion than he broke hers, and for far less noble a reason than “I needed to get out of the way of a curse.”

There was that interview recently, where I think it was Eddy said that shippers bring a great, fun element to the fandom, but they’re telling a broader story with large arcs. Don’t even remember where the interview was from to look it up and get the exact quote, I just remember being struck by the “but” that came after him mentioning how great shippers are, and it gave me confidence that whatever their plan is, it’s not gonna be swayed by a vocal minority of fans online.

The way I see the overall story having been constructed, it seems IMO that they’ve been weaving little threads of SF into the story the whole time, which makes me think that SF is their overall gameplan. And if they’ve gone to that much effort to set their connection up, all of it would go to waste if they suddenly changed the outcome.

I can’t see Emma faulting him as much as the fanbase does for getting involved with someone else, but then I wasnt’ quite expecting her to take David and MM to task that much.

I felt though her issue wasn’t “you left me and I can’t trust you,” but it really was more what she said, the fact they left her was incidental to it, but she is the same age, she has had different experience, and they were not respecting her wisdom. They were insisting they knew more and better and Emma is not a follower. She doesn’t know or feel comfortable claiming herself a leader ( and I think this is where next week episode will go with parallels between Snowing arguing about claiming the kingdom or living on a small farm together ). So with Neal the same thing applies, that he has missed a huge part of her life as an adult, and she of his, and are these two people who are in the same space in their lives for that rekindled love to blossom to full true love? I feel that’s a question the writers are posing, and exploring, and some fans shout resoundingly “Noooo!” and we here on this thread are saying “ooh, I hope so.”

It was definitely about the lack of respect she felt with her parents. They still consider her their little girl, which frustrates her, because she’s an adult. I think she’s probably well on her way to accepting that they sent her away for a good reason. Doesn’t mean she likes it, but she accepts that it was inevitable. So I’d imagine she’s at a similar place over Neal having left her too.

As for the question of are they at the same place in their lives right now, I guess it’s tricky, because no matter if they have similar experiences, the fact remains that the first couple hundred years of his life were spent in magical worlds, so much like Snow and Charming, that other way of life will always be part of what makes up who he is. I think though, at the same time, he can understand her reluctance in regards to all the FTL stuff, because he ran away from it and wasn’t keen to ever go back. So I think he embraced our magic-less world pretty eagerly, and because of that will have an understanding of Emma that no one else does. They may have lived as though they were in our world all those years in SB, but that wasn’t really the real world. Neal’s been out there, living it, and knows exactly what Emma has had to deal with for her whole life, and how her mind works as a result.

So he gets her on the level of what it’s like to be a lonely kid, trying to survive in our world. And he also gets her on the level of being a reluctant FTL kid. He also gets her on the level of suddenly having to come to grips with being a parent. So I think he’s someone she could find solace in, when everyone and everything else around them seems ridiculous.

I don’t see grand romance for them immediately. I think they’ll start to re-discover each other properly as they keep going on this quest to save their son, and after that, their love will bubble up to the surface. In Tallahassee, when they’re robbing the store and Emma pretends to go into labor, as they’re running to the car, Neal says, “The little guy saved us,” and I like to think of that line as foreshadowing. Not that they should or will come back together romantically for Henry’s sake, but that them having to come together to save Henry is what will kickstart them really getting to know each other again, which is what will inevitably lead back to romance.

If he enters her life expecting to pick up exactly where they left off, I can see Emma bristling at that. Of course, with all the other characters in the mix, I don’t see how they could even for one second feel it was “them against the world again”–for both of them, there are too many people who matter now. So they would have to find a different rhythm but I hope they will. We just have to wait for more!

I can imagine, the first night after he gets to NL, while everyone else is asleep, Neal and Emma are sitting together, apart from the rest, having a slightly awkward “about the portal” conversation. I wouldn’t wanna see him pushing for anything, because they have other things to focus on right now, but I’d like for him to say something like, “When I said I love you, I just need you to know that I meant it.” Then she’ll say she meant it too, and rest her head on his shoulder, and he’ll wrap his arm around her, and that’s the end of the scene. Maybe at the very end toss in a shot of a sneaky pirate, eavesdropping and looking ambiguously lost in thought, just for the sake of drama.

[RumplesGirl]

it’s not gonna be swayed by a vocal minority of fans online.

Adam has always maintained online that he and Eddy are telling the story they want to tell, but they love the passion.

We could spin this either way depending on which ship you come down on. So I’ll just leave my shippy goggles on and believe that they’ve set up Neal and Emma from the beginning.

They may have lived as though they were in our world all those years in SB, but that wasn’t really the real world. Neal’s been out there, living it, and knows exactly what Emma has had to deal with for her whole life, and how her mind works as a result.

Very true. They understand each other and the strategies for coping in this world. It bonds them.

I can imagine, the first night after he gets to NL, while everyone else is asleep, Neal and Emma are sitting together, apart from the rest, having a slightly awkward “about the portal” conversation. I wouldn’t wanna see him pushing for anything, because they have other things to focus on right now, but I’d like for him to say something like, “When I said I love you, I just need you to know that I meant it.” Then she’ll say she meant it too, and rest her head on his shoulder, and he’ll wrap his arm around her, and that’s the end of the scene. Maybe at the very end toss in a shot of a sneaky pirate, eavesdropping and looking ambiguously lost in thought, just for the sake of drama.

FEELINGS

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

There was that interview recently, where I think it was Eddy said that shippers bring a great, fun element to the fandom, but they’re telling a broader story with large arcs. Don’t even remember where the interview was from to look it up and get the exact quote, I just remember being struck by the “but” that came after him mentioning how great shippers are, and it gave me confidence that whatever their plan is, it’s not gonna be swayed by a vocal minority of fans online.

You mean this interview from Entertainment Weekly? Ta-da!

On Hook and Emma: While fans who stump for a romantic future for Hook and Emma may have picked up on one or two fun exchanges between the two in the premiere, Horowitz and Kitsis kept under wraps their plans for the pair this season. “The whole relationship — ‘ship — thing is an awesome thing that fans bring to the experience of watching the show, but the story we’re telling kind of encompasses both the relationships between all the characters — potential romances and not — and the bigger emotional story,” says Horowitz. But with Neal presumed dead and Hook being a red-blooded normal dude, there could be some more flirtation on the way. Kitsis says, however, Emma remains focused on the mission. “Her heart’s been broken too many times for her to kind of be worried about dating right now. We’ll see. She’s got two handsome guys.”

While we need to acknowledge that it could go either way, Adam and Eddy have always told the story that they wanted to tell. When fans figured out in advance that Henry’s dad would be Rumple’s son, they considered changing it but decided to keep it because they loved their own original idea too much to change it. Also, Adam tweeted they were going for a poetic narrative when they wrote the story so that the savior of the curse would find the person whom the curse was meant to find. Something tells me that Neal and Emma’s story is far from over.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Josephine]

I had a brilliant post and lost it. 😛

Phee, everything you said!

In Tallahassee, when they’re robbing the store and Emma pretends to go into labor, as they’re running to the car, Neal says, “The little guy saved us,” and I like to think of that line as foreshadowing.

Remember that when they were at the counter a keychain with Henry’s name was visible on the display (along with an obscured picture of Dylan–very slick Once)

It would be fantastic to have The Lion King’s Simba/Nala collision once again in the jungle like they did in Manhattan. Emma could have her shocked moment, maybe think she’s hallucinating bringing to mind the Mr. Gold scene from the season one finale. Who knew full body collisions could be so romantic! 😉

Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.

[kfchimera]

@Phee– Yes! You are right that of the characters we have met,  Neal best understands what real world life was like for Emma. He experienced it in a different order, but he understands what she is going through.  Her parents think the real world had been nothing but cruel to her, but it seems like a lot of the cruelest things led back to magic, certainly Neal’s reason for leaving her did.

Neal  struggled to learn a new land, so he gets what Emma is going through now.  It is  a crazy sort of spin on the immigrant experience if you think about it.  He had to adjust to the real world on the fly and now she has to do the same with his sort of “birth world” problems of a land with magic, classic characters, good and evil and magic. Another detail of the “Poetic” story that I hope the writers are doing.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

You mean this interview from Entertainment Weekly? Ta-da!

Yep, that’s the one! Thanks for posting the proper quote.

It would be fantastic to have The Lion King’s Simba/Nala collision once again in the jungle like they did in Manhattan.

😆 From now on, whenever I watch that scene, I’m gonna be imagining them as lions.

Another detail of the “Poetic” story that I hope the writers are doing.

Exactly. This is an example of why I say that as fun as it can be to notice parallels with other couples, I don’t consider that to be necessary as a means to prove the validity of SF. Their story has been crafted in such a way that it’s strong and special and IMO inevitable in its own right.

[Slurpeez]

I posted this in another thread, but I’ll post it here, too, since it’s relevant.

A Neal/Mulan coupling? Don’t count on it, but James does get why the two might get along. “I think they’re similar,” he said. “They’re a bit of kindred spirits in terms of being on the outside a little bit, you know? So yeah, I certainly think there’s a bond.” And while Neal has some skills of his own in defending himself, he may get some help. “[Mulan’s] got impressive skills as a warrior that can come in handy,” he added with a smile. source: TV Fanatic

Hopefully, this will put to bed any continuing rumors about a would-be Neal and Mulan coupling. MRJ says Neal and Mulan are “kindred spirits” even though their relationship has been confirmed by Eddy and Adam to be purely platonic. Who else are said to be kindred spirits? Emma and Killian. Possibly, Emma and Hook might develop a really close bond which is platonic? Just because two people are kindred spirits does not mean they are necessarily romantically linked.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Author]

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