Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[kfchimera]

It strikes me that, not for nothing, Hook partnered with Cora.  Speaking of partners, Rumple and Cora had a ..thing.  It was pre-Belle, and despite one shock–threat kiss while Belle temporarily was “dead”, at least memory wise, it was not a love story.  More of a lust story.  I have seen plenty of people who found the Rose-RC scenes  HOT, and come to think of it there were lots of pictures if it too.

[RumplesGirl]

It strikes me that, not for nothing, Hook partnered with Cora. Speaking of partners, Rumple and Cora had a ..thing. It was pre-Belle, and despite one shock–threat kiss while Belle temporarily was “dead”, at least memory wise, it was not a love story. More of a lust story. I have seen plenty of people who found the Rose-RC scenes HOT, and come to think of it there were lots of pictures if it too.

Valid points. And they released the kiss of YoungCora and Rumple as a sneak as well. 🙂

I don’t put my stock in parallels but A and E don’t control what gets marketed, just ABC.

We had a pretty heavy SF feel ride 303 and 304. Hold on to that, shipmates.

though I have to admit I am not as bothered by the actual kiss as I thought I might be. I’m bothered by the context of kiss

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

What concerned me was the context too.  It started off as  very Hook the Pirate asks for a kiss as payment expecting her to roll her eyes and she to his surprise is aggressive back.  That’s fine, Emma is a bottle of wine and a can of hairspray away from a Lacey moment with Hook, understandable as a numbing stage of grief.  Then it ends with him using a line straight out of The Princess Bride, which ought to be very romantic but it contrasts too sharply emotionally with where the scene starts.  I am all for mash-ups but that feels like a crude attempt to inject a romantic note to a scene where it does not fit by actually lifting a dialog phrase rather than the writers putting some effort to write their own memorable phrase like Rumbelle “Love is layered” or “You make me want to go back to the best version of me,” or corny Snowing with ” I will always find you.”  Couldn’t they at least have given him his own unique line, that harked back to a scene they shared together,or to phrases used in this show, like   “As you choose.”

I used to follow CS, but was on the “he has to redeem” himself first and he took til the end of season 2 to do it, and by then, the show told me Emma loved Neal and he loved her, and I believed it was romantic.  I’d kind of wished Emma would have some fun with Hook while Neal was still being strung along by Tamara, but wow, they played all that out fast.  So now they’ve gone into the inevitable “someone will get their heart broken” territory and I never enjoy those, and I don’t want that for either Hook or Neal.   I could even seeing it be BOTH of them getting hurt, all of them really, because it is just a messed up situation.  No coincidence, I think, that they are on Pan’s island, playing his games either.  I hope it all makes more sense in the full episode, and I’ll just remind myself the next episode will be Belle and Ariel and try to just breathe through it.   Other fans are very happy about it, so there’s that, but I ‘m just seeing a train wreck coming, and I miss Season 1’s style of every few episodes there was sort of some happy ending in sight for someone even if not Emma.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

It started off as  very Hook the Pirate asks for a kiss as payment expecting her to roll her eyes and she to his surprise is aggressive back.  That’s fine, Emma is a bottle of wine and a can of hairspray away from a Lacey moment with Hook, understandable as a numbing stage of grief.  Then it ends with him using a line straight out of The Princess Bride, which ought to be very romantic but it contrasts too sharply emotionally with where the scene starts.  I am all for mash-ups but that feels like a crude attempt to inject a romantic note to a scene where it does not fit by actually lifting a dialog phrase rather than the writers putting some effort to write their own memorable phrase like Rumbelle “Love is layered” or “You make me want to go back to the best version of me,” or corny Snowing with ” I will always find you.”  Couldn’t they at least have given him his own unique line, that harked back to a scene they shared together,or to phrases used in this show, like   “As you choose.”

Exactly. the kiss was aggressive and competitive. Like “oh you don’t think I will. Well I will just show you how far I am willing to go to prove you wrong.” and that’s fine if all you’re looking for is a very brief relationship. But then to end with a line that is supposed to evoke a very iconic and classic love story (who reports that when Wesley and Buttercup kiss, it tops the 5 most romantic kisses of all time) creates a sense of disjointedness. Like did I miss something? Did this competitive one-up-manship suddenly become a sign of love?

So now they’ve gone into the inevitable “someone will get their heart broken” territory and I never enjoy those, and I don’t want that for either Hook or Neal.

Again I agree. And then there are the fans. I wish everyone would keep this in mind. One part of this internet culture fandom is going to be hurt. Why not try a little sympathy? Like, what if you were in the “losing” ships shoes? (note: most of that comment is directed at Twitter and Tumblr)

I could even seeing it be BOTH of them getting hurt, all of them really, because it is just a messed up situation. No coincidence, I think, that they are on Pan’s island, playing his games either

It really is a messed up situation. Like the structure of the love triangle is bizarre even for a TV love triangle. Girl who feels abandoned by baby’s daddy and spends 11 months in jail but doesn’t know that a mythic demonic PP has set it all up is attracted to a pirate who is actually more like her baby’s daddy step father/uncle. Oh and baby’s daddy is still alive but being held by immortal teenagers.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

I guess Shakespeare had some messed up love stories too, not just in the tragedies but Phee mentioned a midsummer’s night’s dream, famous for having pairs of lovers get mismatched.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

Was good to see some context for the kiss. Not so good to see Hook reverting like that, but nevertheless, I think it fits for his character. He’s been holding back and playing nice for a few days, and let’s not forget that it really has only been a few days, which isn’t really long enough to break a 300 year bad habit. So when he saw a chance, he went for it. It was skeezy, it was piratey, it was typical Hook. It’s gonna take something BIG for something in him to snap and for any change to actually stick, and I think that reality check for him will come when he discovers Nealfire is alive. With Bae dead as far as he’s concerned, it’s probably a bit easier for him to ignore his conscience and coerce Bae’s ex girlfriend into kissing him. But once he knows that Bae is alive, and he’s standing right in front of him, I like to think he’ll have an, “Oh crap, I did a douchebag thing,” moment.

I like to think that right now, he is actually conflicted if he’s being honest with himself, and I think that’s what the “As you wish,” was meant to indicate. He’s doing his typical, skeezy thing, but at the same time, part of him really does feel something for Emma. Westley would say, “As you wish,” in place of, “I love you,” and while I don’t think that Hook is full on in love with her at this stage, I do think he’s considering the possibility that it could happen.

Then there’s also the issue of what was mentioned over in the sneak peek thread, that we’re suspecting it’s not actually that he’s saved Charming from the poison, it’s some other life threatening situation, so Emma’s thanking him for saving her father’s life, but Hook knows that actually, her father’s still dying. If that’s the case, I’d like to think that’s gonna eat him up a bit inside, and maybe it’ll force him to reveal the truth. He’s also still keeping secrets about his relationships with both Milah and Bae, and also with Pan. He knows he’s keeping all of this from Emma. He knows he’s being dishonest with someone he’s actually developing feelings for. And he’s coercing her into kissing him because it’s something he wants for himself. The scenes following the kiss will be very telling as to how Hook really feels about what he’s done, and I’m hoping that this kiss will actually trigger some introspection and change for him.

I guess that’s why I can’t be too mad about it right now. But I’ll be disappointed in him if he just carries on like it’s no biggie.

As for Emma’s attitude about the whole thing, I read it as, “Fine, one time if it’ll make you STFU.” She did get pretty into it once it had started, but that honestly doesn’t really surprise me. She’s totally strung out, feeling desperate and alone, mourning the death of the man she loves, and suddenly she’s engaged in some intense, close, physical contact with someone. It was a release for her. All the stress, and the torment and the loss she’s been overwhelmed with, that kiss was an outlet for it. And I’d guess she might actually beat herself up a bit for having used Hook like that, in case she gave him the wrong idea.

[RumplesGirl]

I really need Nealfire to return now. And not even for shipping reasons, just because I need to see his dynamic with *everyone*

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

Phee wrote: With Bae dead as far as he’s concerned, it’s probably a bit easier for him to ignore his conscience and coerce Bae’s ex girlfriend into kissing him. But once he knows that Bae is alive, and he’s standing right in front of him, I like to think he’ll have an, “Oh crap, I did a douchebag thing,” moment.

I agree. Right now, Hook is probably thinking that Emma is “fair game” in the sense that she is single. Emma is the one who kissed Hook (though at his beckoning), and she did it in such a passionate way that Hook will probably read it as a signal to try even harder. Yet, I think we’ll see Hook’s true inner-conflict when he discovers Bae, for whom he has fatherly affection, is alive.

Phee wrote: I like to think that right now, he is actually conflicted if he’s being honest with himself, and I think that’s what the “As you wish,” was meant to indicate. He’s doing his typical, skeezy thing, but at the same time, part of him really does feel something for Emma. 

Taken on its own the, “as you wish” line feels out of place with part one of the scene. But, I think it is in keeping with Killian Jones earnestly  developing feelings for Emma that go beyond attraction. Yet, his Captain Hook piratey persona we saw in S2, the one who coerces kisses, keeps popping up. Killian Jones, the man, has been hit by Cupid’s arrow, but Hook, the pirate, struggles to know how properly to woo the woman of his affections. His pirate persona worked on Milha, and Tinkerbell, it would seem. Now that Hook is confronted by his feelings for Emma, his default pirate-mode of thinking is kicking into overdrive, since it’s always worked for him before. It is sleazy, but as you say, typical of pirates. 

Phee wrote: Then there’s also the issue of what was mentioned over in the sneak peek thread, that we’re suspecting it’s not actually that he’s saved Charming from the poison, it’s some other life threatening situation, so Emma’s thanking him for saving her father’s life, but Hook knows that actually, her father’s still dying. If that’s the case, I’d like to think that’s gonna eat him up a bit inside, and maybe it’ll force him to reveal the truth. He’s also still keeping secrets about his relationships with both Milah and Bae, and also with Pan. He knows he’s keeping all of this from Emma.

Why would Hook take credit for saving Charming’s life if he knows Emma’s father is indeed still dying–just to get a hot smooch? I suppose because he’s a bit of a scoundrel, despite all of his swashbuckling charm. When all of these truths Hook has hidden away come spilling out, that might give Emma serious pause about Hook’s overall trustworthiness. So, for Hook’s sake, I hope he really does save David from the dreamshade poison, even though he does seek sexual favors in exchange.

Phee wrote: I guess that’s why I can’t be too mad about it right now. But I’ll be disappointed in him if he just carries on like it’s no biggie.

Yeah, that would show very little character growth from when Hook was introduced in “The Crocodile” until now if Neal shows up, and Hook continues to make a play for Emma, without even showing consideration to the man he claims is like a son to him.

Phee wrote: She’s totally strung out, feeling desperate and alone, mourning the death of the man she loves, and suddenly she’s engaged in some intense, close, physical contact with someone. It was a release for her. All the stress, and the torment and the loss she’s been overwhelmed with, that kiss was an outlet for it.

Again, I agree. The fact that Emma just confessed to her parents that she never stopped loving Neal means she clearly hasn’t moved on. And since NL has no time, there is no future to consider with anyone while there, so Emma kissing Hook in my mind is a form of release, as you say. She’s been emotionally volatile ever since coming to the island, she has no defenses while there, and Hook is the only one (besides Rumple) who shares her sense of loss over Neal’s “death.” The fact that Hook reminds her of Neal (J-Mo’s words) means that the part of her which is attracted to Hook really is spoken for by Neal. So, I’m not worried about Emma having snogged Hook since I believe her heart still lays with Neal. 

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Phee]

(OK, what’s the trick to getting spoilers to actually be spoilered in quotes? Thought I’d done it right, but I guess not.)

I really need Nealfire to return now. And not even for shipping reasons, just because I need to see his dynamic with *everyone*

I’ve said this before, but I think what comes after the thing will be just as telling, if not moreso, than the thing itself. I’m dying to see how they all interact in the aftermath.

Taken on its own the, “as you wish” line feels out of place with part one of the scene. But, I think it is in keeping with Captain Hook’s piratey persona we saw in S2, the one who coerces kisses, compared with Killian Jones earnestly developing feelings for Emma that go beyond attraction. I think Killian, the man, has been hit by Cupid’s arrow, but Hook, the pirate, struggles to know how properly to woo the woman of his affections.

Yes! Love how you summed it up there.

I think, when he was trying to egg her on as per usual, he wasn’t really expecting her to cave, because she usually doesn’t. Then it happened…and then some. I don’t think he was expecting to feel what he felt, and when it was over, he said, “That was…” and left it hanging for Emma to finish the sentence, and she went with, “…a one time thing.” Which, OUCH, because the guy had just made the executive decision that he could actually love this girl, which we get from the “As you wish” because it’s a pop culture thing they dropped in there because everyone knows what it means without them having to have him actually flat out say, “I love you.” That statement would have been too blatant and full on, it’s something Emma would have had to turn around and immediately address, but they can’t do that because they have to draw it out a bit. The final shot of him, after she’s walked away and he’s touching his lips and is deep in thought, (sidenote: I love that shot), I imagine him thinking, “*expletive* it, Jones, you’ve really screwed yourself this time,” as he’s thinking about what he’s feeling and what she’s not feeling and the secrets he’s keeping and what a hot mess of a situation it all is.

Yeah, that would show very little character growth from when Hook was introduced in “The Crocodile” until now if Neal shows up, and Hook continues to make a play for Emma without even showing consideration to the man he claims is like a son to him.

It will be interesting to see if the theory that his brother Liam looked after him after their father left, proves true. If so, and his wanting to look after Bae had been him wanting to “pay it forward” then that could add a whole other layer to how he’ll react once Neal is around again. I know we’ve all been banging on about how if he really cared for Bae as a father figure, he’d step back. But if he really cared for Bae as a father figure because of how his own brother had been a father figure to him…this really would be a second chance (where have I heard that before) for him to not only do right by Bae, but to repair his brother’s legacy too.

Again, I agree. The fact that Emma just confessed to her parents that she never stopped loving Neal means she clearly hasn’t moved on. And since NL has no time, there is no future to consider with anyone while there, so Emma kissing Hook in my mind is form of release. She’s been emotionally volatile ever since coming to the island, she has no defenses anymore and Hook is the only who who knows her sense of loss over Neal’s “death.” The fact that Hook reminds her of Neal (J-Mo’s words) means that the part of her which is attracted to Hook really is spoken for by Neal. So, I’m not worried about Emma having snogged Hook since I believe her heart still lays with Neal.

WORD to all of that. When the kiss happens it will have been mere hours after she had a breakdown over never having stopped loving Neal and how frustrating it is that she can’t even tell him that now because he’s dead. It just would not make sense to me for this kiss to be solely about her having feelings for Hook. Judging by what she’s JUST said about Neal, it just does not compute that she’s already flipped a switch a few hours later. She was apart from Neal for 11 years and still her love for him remained, so her emotions concerning Neal are very much a part of why she kisses Hook at this particular point in time. He’s her living connection to Neal, like you said, JMo said it herself that Hook reminds her of Neal.

[Slurpeez]

Re-posting this tweet from Jennifer Morrison in light of what we know now about “the thing” with CS:

Keep holding that torch for Neal, Emma, because he’s coming for you!

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Author]

Posts