Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[kfchimera]

Emma has been written to be so strong and tough, using Charming’s sword to kill a dragon, that the traditional fairy tale role of being a damsel in distress waiting for the dashing prince to save her just doesn’t fit her. Not that Snow was passively waiting for Charming in OUAT, but Bae seems to have more obvious parallels to Snow, than Charming. They even both lost their mothers at a young age, and had to live with their father until the father made a choice that was, to put it mildly, horribly bad for the kid, but at the time of the decision seemed like a good idea. Leopold marries Regina, thinking it will give Snow a mother, and Rumpel gets the dagger thinking it will save Bae from the draft. Both ended in tears!

[Phee]

Parallels undoubtedly play a role in this show, in that they use them blatantly as a storytelling device when showing how the flashbacks relate to present day events and how people have or haven’t changed as a result of the Curse. And I do get a kick out of little “history repeating” type moments. But sometimes the obsessive dissection of tiny things, like a similar reaction to a certain situation in eps that are half a season or more apart, that stuff just feels like grasping at straws in an attempt to validate a personal viewpoint to me.

As far as the SwanFire/Snowing gifs on that link…

The stuff with Snowing and Kathryn vs SwanFire and Tamara…I guess it’s the same in that there was a triangle based on lies, but I don’t really read any more into it. It’s a standard method of storytelling that if you wanna create drama to keep a couple apart, you throw a third person into the mix, so I don’t see it as history significantly repeating as a clue that SwanFire are meant to be, just like Snowing were.

The wanted poster stuff…I do like that they’ve repeated the theme of living on the run, but I just like it in the sense that it shows that Emma is her mother’s daughter. Even though they never knew each other, and they each grew up in very different worlds under different circumstances, they still ended up being similar. But do I think that there being a wanted poster in a Snowing scene and a wanted poster in a SwanFire scene is a “sign” of the relationships being the same? Nah.

The pregnancy test scenes…well they had to show the moment that Emma found out she was pregnant, because her having Henry is such a vital plot point. And the swinging of the ring for Snow clears up how she knew at a later date that she was pregnant with a girl. I don’t consider the two scenes to be a calculated parallel of each other though.

The parent/child reunion scenes…I assume the gifs are showing the parallel of how the mother has her hands on the side of the child’s face in both instances, but that’s just a perfectly natural action for a parent to do in such a situation. I don’t think they went back to the scene with Snow and Emma and said to JMo, “do this exact same thing to Henry’s face”. There are only so many fitting actions and expressions that a person can have in any given situation, which is why I don’t read much into stuff like this.

I have faith in SwanFire because of their own, personal story together, not because of how it does or doesn’t mirror other characters/relationships.

[Demileto]

Honestly, I don’t like paralleling couples because I doubt even half of them were remotely intended. The only parallels I see as intentional are:

– Emma and Snow: like her mother, Emma met her lover while stealing, had a child with him and let her baby go for adoption to give him his best chance at life;

– Neal and Rumple: like his father, Neal was abandoned by his parents for selfish reasons, followed the advice of a stranger in detriment of his lover (even Emma and Milah’s words to Neal and Rumple are similar: “(You left me… and let me go to prison/You did this) because (Pinocchio/a seer) told you (/to do it)?”) and ended up abandoned his son too (though, in his case, unknownlingly);

– the practice of keeping objects meaningful to their relationship: Ruth’s ring for Snowing, the Chipped Cup for Rumbelle, Daniel’s ring for Stable Queen (which Regina only let go when forced to choose betweeen the love she had for Daniel – who was long gone – and the love she has for Henry – who’s very much alive) and the Swan Pendant/Dreamcatcher for SwanFire.

@Phee wrote:

Parallels undoubtedly play a role in this show, in that they use them blatantly as a storytelling device when showing how the flashbacks relate to present day events and how people have or haven’t changed as a result of the Curse. And I do get a kick out of little “history repeating” type moments. But sometimes the obsessive dissection of tiny things, like a similar reaction to a certain situation in eps that are half a season or more apart, that stuff just feels like grasping at straws in an attempt to validate a personal viewpoint to me.

Yup. I’ve seen some “parallels” or “foreshadowings” for both SwanFire and Captain Swan that are just so much eyeroll-worthy it’s laughable.

@Phee wrote:

I have faith in SwanFire because of their own, personal story together, not because of how it does or doesn’t mirror other characters/relationships.

Agreed. Neal and Emma are both complicated, messed up characters with issues both personal and between themselves, which makes for a far more interesting and satisfying love story in the long term to me than Hook and Emma. And then there’s Henry: as the character who drives most of the major storylines forward, I can’t see OUAT ending in a way that doesn’t reflect HIS happy ending, and what more does Henry want than his parents getting back together?

[Phee]

Agreed with those points, Demileto.

I love me a sentimental object, so like that characters have these types of things on the show. I’m the type who will attach a sentiment to some tiny, random, whatever, and I’ll put it away, then find it again years later, and not even remember the exact reason why I kept it, but the fact that I did keep it, means I can’t throw it out, because it obviously means something special.

As well as the swan pendant and the dreamcatcher, SwanFire also have the Bug. If Emma hadn’t had any love left for Neal, she wouldn’t have kept that car…their getaway car, their mobile home, the very place where they met. Regarding the swan pendant, I can’t wait for the day when he gives it back to her, (you know it’s gotta happen).

[Demileto]

@Phee wrote:

Regarding the swan pendant, I can’t wait for the day when he gives it back to her, (you know it’s gotta happen).

Oh, yeah! 🙂

[RumplesGirl]

@Demileto wrote:

@Phee wrote:

Regarding the swan pendant, I can’t wait for the day when he gives it back to her, (you know it’s gotta happen).

Oh, yeah! 🙂

In my head, he was carrying it in is pocket when he fell through the portal and we’ll see him give it back to her when they are reunited. And he’ll tell her that holding on it (her, really) was the only thing that kept him going.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

I agree with what you’re saying there Demileto and Phee, so to me those gifs were just fluffy fun to see, in the same vein as making a video to song lyrics. Enjoyable but not predictive of anything.

Each romantic sub-plot has to play out on its own, in the context of a larger plot. So many things will call back to other situations, sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with romances, and sometimes not even intentionally!
In Manhattan, I remember the writers overused the word “adept”. It stuck out to me, like a “word of the day” kind of thing, though I don’t think there was anything going on except the lack of a thesaurus in the writers’ room.

“Mr. Gold: Well, my son’s been running away for a long time now. Now I have a feeling he’s equally adept at it.”

“Hook: Well, lucky for you ladies, I’m quite adept at finding buried treasure.”

“Mr. Gold: Yeah, well, actually, that’s something I’m quite adept at.”
I’m not jumping on board GoldHook for that–but if someone wants to make a music video of them I’ll admit I wouldn’t have a problem staring at scenes of them set to music. 😆

@Demileto wrote:

Agreed. Neal and Emma are both complicated, messed up characters with issues both personal and between themselves, which makes for a far more interesting and satisfying love story in the long term to me than Hook and Emma. And then there’s Henry: as the character who drives most of the major storylines forward, I can’t see OUAT ending in a way that doesn’t reflect HIS happy ending, and what more does Henry want than his parents getting back together?

Well, the last part I don’t know if I agree with entirely. Henry wants his parents to be happy, and if he thought they made each other miserable, he probably would not want them together just to create a family unit. He’s already used to the idea of two moms who love him even if they don’t love, let alone like, each other or live with each other. Henry would be happy if everyone could get along and not try to kill/curse each other! Luckily for SF, things between Neal and Emma were never that full of animosity and hate. So it could be written different ways–but I saw it as Henry is intuitive and wanted them together because he thought they did still love each other.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Demileto]

@KFChimera wrote:

@Demileto wrote:

Agreed. Neal and Emma are both complicated, messed up characters with issues both personal and between themselves, which makes for a far more interesting and satisfying love story in the long term to me than Hook and Emma. And then there’s Henry: as the character who drives most of the major storylines forward, I can’t see OUAT ending in a way that doesn’t reflect HIS happy ending, and what more does Henry want than his parents getting back together?

Well, the last part I don’t know if I agree with entirely. Henry wants his parents to be happy, and if he thought they made each other miserable, he probably would not want them together just to create a family unit. He’s already used to the idea of two moms who love him even if they don’t love, let alone like, each other or live with each other. Henry would be happy if everyone could get along and not try to kill/curse each other! Luckily for SF, things between Neal and Emma were never that full of animosity and hate. So it could be written different ways–but I saw it as Henry is intuitive and wanted them together because he thought they did still love each other.

Well, I didn’t delve deeper into that precisely because we know Neal and Emma DO love each other and so does Henry. But yeah, if Neal was indeed this bastard that impregnated Emma only to leave her like she hinted in the first season Henry would definitely want her to end up with someone better.

The bottomline is: between Neal and Hook, Henry’d much rather that Emma ended up with his dad, but would be acceptive of Hook if that’s who Emma really wants to be. However, like I said, I see the end of the series better reflecting Henry’s happy ending than Emma’s, Regina’s, Hook’s or whoever else’s and to Henry an ending with Neal and Emma as a couple parenting him together is happier than the two of them being friends who co-parent.

Naturally, that’s how I view things, feel free to disagree. 🙂

[Phee]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

@Demileto wrote:

@Phee wrote:

Regarding the swan pendant, I can’t wait for the day when he gives it back to her, (you know it’s gotta happen).

Oh, yeah! 🙂

In my head, he was carrying it in is pocket when he fell through the portal and we’ll see him give it back to her when they are reunited. And he’ll tell her that holding on it (her, really) was the only thing that kept him going.

FEELS! Wonder how quickly he’s gonna regain consciousness? Maybe he’s wearing it, and Aurora and Mulan see it before he comes to and are all, “That’s what Emma was wearing!” and they get all suspicious about who he is.

@KFChimera wrote:

I’m not jumping on board GoldHook for that–but if someone wants to make a music video of them I’ll admit I wouldn’t have a problem staring at scenes of them set to music. 😆

If I knew how to make vids, I’d totally make a GoldHook vid to the song Troublemaker by Olly Murs.

@Demileto wrote:

The bottomline is: between Neal and Hook, Henry’d much rather that Emma ended up with his dad, but would be acceptive of Hook if that’s who Emma really wants to be. However, like I said, I see the end of the series better reflecting Henry’s happy ending than Emma’s, Regina’s, Hook’s or whoever else’s and to Henry an ending with Neal and Emma as a couple parenting him together is happier than the two of them being friends who co-parent.

Agreed. K&H have said that Henry’s greatest wish is for a happy, united family, (incidentally, something Nealfire has also dreamed of, especially after losing a happy family with his parents, then with his father, then with the Darlings, then with Emma…Bae was as significant of a child to this story as Henry is, and they both want the same thing as their happy ending, a happy family with Emma). They’re at least being civil and cooperating now, but I’d like the show to end with them all truly making amends. Henry could have his bio-parents back together, his adoptive mother welcomed as part of the family, along with his grandpa, and they could all go over to Casa Snowing for a big family dinner every Sunday. (Sidenote: I’d love for Snowing to have another kid by show’s end, so let’s throw an infant aunt/uncle for Henry into the mix too while we’re at it.)

[kfchimera]

@Phee wrote:

FEELS! Wonder how quickly he’s gonna regain consciousness? Maybe he’s wearing it, and Aurora and Mulan see it before he comes to and are all, “That’s what Emma was wearing!” and they get all suspicious about who he is.

I really want the necklace to make a reappearance–that would be neat if the others connect him to Emma because of the pendant!
@Demileto wrote:

The bottomline is: between Neal and Hook, Henry’d much rather that Emma ended up with his dad, but would be acceptive of Hook if that’s who Emma really wants to be. However, like I said, I see the end of the series better reflecting Henry’s happy ending than Emma’s, Regina’s, Hook’s or whoever else’s and to Henry an ending with Neal and Emma as a couple parenting him together is happier than the two of them being friends who co-parent.

I see what you mean now–and I suppose as a target for defining end game happiness, Henry ‘s pov is probably closest to what the audience feels too, as we also care about all the characters.
@Phee wrote:

(Sidenote: I’d love for Snowing to have another kid by show’s end, so let’s throw an infant aunt/uncle for Henry into the mix too while we’re at it.)

I kind of wonder given Lana Parilla getting married, and how close Josh/Ginny are, whether it’s possible that either actress might in real life get pregnant over the run of this show, and then the writers might have to write it in or do the whole “hide the bump” thing. I think it would be interesting either way for Henry to end up with a sibling/aunt/uncle/relation (and I think Ginny has pitched the idea to the writers).

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Author]

Posts