Emma Swan Character Analysis

[Jenna_B]

Ok, I think I’ll start with the EF debate.  It’s a fun one.
I think POM & RG both have good points.  I don’t look at Hook in the EF as ‘saving Emma’ or reducing her to a ‘damsel in distress’ because Emma shows she can get herself out of dire situations on her own (‘no one saves me but me’!) Emma does essentially know how to navigate the EF, and had she been sent back alone, she maybe could’ve done what she needed to do by herself.  It would’ve been a lot rockier though, because like POM said, when Emma was in the EF in S2, it didn’t matter that Emma didn’t blend.  And – she had Snow, Mulan and Aurora.  Hook was essentially providing Emma with the same need-to-know pieces that the girls assisted Emma with in S2.  And remember, Emma was a huge fish out of water, even by the time they left.  One of my favorite S2 EF scenes is a simple one – they were eating/drinking and Emma’s sniffing everything and picking at everything like a child introduced to a new food.  It was subtle, but it showed Emma very out of her element (and it was hilarious).  When Hook & Emma are in the EF, the major difference is that it is of utmost importance that they do not call attention to themselves unless given no other option (ex: they encounter Charming/Snow, etc but disguised as Prince Charles and Princess Leia).  The ball scene – I’m going to agree, it’s mostly fluff.  But it was a good way to see Emma actually enjoying the life she would’ve had if the original curse hadn’t been cast and she had grown up as a princess.  It also allowed Emma to let down her walls a little, feel a little more comfortable, and by extension feel the near-death of her mother even more.

Savior/Mother/Product of True Love: Emma
This was brought up on the last page, I believe, that S1 introduced Emma as the Savoir/Henry’s mother and these were her defining characteristics.  With this, I agree.

Savior:  And I preface this with I cannot STAND the Savior stuff – Emma and Henry and their true love between mother and son was the only thing that would have broken the original curse that created Storybrooke.  However, I’m not sure why Emma continues to need to be the Savior.  I don’t know why exactly the other characters need to see Emma as a Savior.  Yes, Emma’s a natural leader, and the necessary leader in 3A, but I think the other characters use the ‘Savior’ as a crutch to force Emma to continue to be the leader and makes us as viewers expect Emma to be the one to constantly save the day.  My question – why?   Why can’t Regina emerge as the ‘Savior’ against Zelena?  Why can’t Rumple emerge as the ‘Savior’ for whatever’s going to happen in S4?  Or Snow, or Charming?  What I saw in 3B is Regina growing to become a leader and the only one who could really beat Zelena, her sister.  But perhaps Emma got a little lost because of that.  She wasn’t really sure what her role was if she wasn’t saving the day.  And that fear is what ignited the downward spiral that led to Emma declaring she was going back to NY and taking Henry, being selfish and putting her own fears ahead of anyone else’s thoughts or needs, and getting almost downright mean to most of her loved ones.

Mother:  As a mother, I do agree that Emma was selfish in declaring she was taking Henry and returning to NY when Zelena was defeated.  However, becoming a mother doesn’t make someone perfect.  It certainly doesn’t mean that a woman isn’t going to act for selfish reasons.  In a perfect world, maybe – but not reality.  If you want reality, then Emma is a ‘real’ mother.  She’s scared out of her ever loving mind and acting/reacting due to that fear.  Being a mother is scary and hard and it changes you profoundly.  But it definitely does not mean every decision you make – even in the name of your child – is going to be the right decision.

That said, it also doesn’t mean your child isn’t constantly on your mind.  Yes, in truth, Emma’s statement that moving to NY was for Henry was really about Emma and her fears, as a mother, it did ring true – you can convince yourself that you’re doing something for your child even if it has more to do with you – and you can convince yourself that the decision is best for both of you.  Which is what I think Emma was doing.  And in the EF, maybe Emma didn’t mention Henry, but that doesn’t mean Emma wasn’t thinking about him the entire time.  I think about my child constantly, but I don’t necessarily mention him every 30 seconds.  Emma had so much going on – bringing up Henry would have seemed odd to me, not realistic.  She had a mission – to get home – to her entire family, including her child.  And she achieved that goal.  And in the end, she faced her fears, realized and acknowledged what she was doing, and made the right decision for herself, and for Henry.

Product of True Love:  I think this is one pickle A&E really need to define.  Why is being the product of true love so special when it comes to Emma?  If we’re looking at that classic, fairy tale, 1st love = true love = 1 true love, then doesn’t that mean Cinderella and what’s his face’s baby is the product of true love?  And Philora’s?  And even Charming himself?  If you want to broaden the term, and consider two people can have True Love but that love can change or even end or the people be ripped apart, (for whatever reason), then wasn’t Bae the product of true love?  And Henry himself the product of true love?  And of course, Emma’s brother Neal – if Emma is the product of true love, isn’t Neal?  So…what’s the big deal with Emma being the Product of True Love?  Emma even mentioned this to Rumple in the finale.  I don’t know that this has been addressed by the writers, within the context of the show, to my satisfaction at this point.

Emma & Snow
One thing I would really love to see is Emma and Snow’s relationship be focused on and dealt with.  I think now that Emma has finally truly accepted Snow and Charming as her parents, and finally consciously realizes they constitute part of their home, this may (should) be addressed.  I think, though, that Emma wouldn’t really be able to do this with Snow until this point.  Sometimes, it’s just easier for daughters (even adult ones) to talk to their fathers – and with Charming having the personality he does, and the ability to read people a little better than Snow – I can see why it was easier for Emma, with walls still up, to connect with Charming.  But Emma really needed to do some healing and some self reflection before she and Snow are going to be able to address their relationship.  A mother/daughter relationship is complex – add in the fact that you only recently found out (again) why your mother abandoned you, and that she’s magically the same age as you – and you’re going to have difficulty to really bond with her.  An adult woman and her mother can be friends, but it’s a very different friendship that you have with your other female friends.  And Emma knew MM as her adult girlfriend – to have that person now be her mother – that’s a lot to process.  But now that Emma has grown and finally found the ability to let her family in, and accept them all, I think Emma and Snow, and by extension, the show, to really address their problems and get their characters to a place where they can work on their relationship.

Overall, I think I’m forgiving of the flaws OUAT has (and I’m not saying the show doesn’t have a lot of flaws; like every show, it definitely has it’s problems) because it’s trying to tackle so much.  They have a lot of characters to address, multiple arcs within a season, and the showrunners are boys who get excited with their new toys, so sometimes character development does get lost in the shuffle.  And of course, that’s a lot to try to include in, essentially 22, hours over the course of the year (less, actually, because almost 1/3 of that is commercials).  So I think that’s why I tend to accept the problems we see creep up – yes, I love to theorize and analyze ad nauseum (don’t we all – it’s why we’re here!! 🙂 ) and say ‘hey wait a minute’ – but for an hour a week, I do sit in front of the tv and have a fun ride for an hour while I’m watching.

[RumplesGirl]

Hook was essentially providing Emma with the same need-to-know pieces that the girls assisted Emma with in S2.

 

what sort of pieces of information did Hook provide her with except “don’t mess up cause we’re time traveling.” which is HYSTERICAL given he has never seen any sort of modern time travel TV or read any SCIFI books. Emma’s the one who knows about BTTF, not Hook. She knows not to mess history up. But then she steps on a twig.

so what other information did Hook provide? He helped. Absolutely. My argument has never been that he didn’t help. but he wasn’t going around saying, “don’t touch this! it will wake the sleeping giants of the bogs and they will eat your children!”

It was Emma who thought of going to Rumple. It was Emma who knew her parents story. When Hook was worried that Snow and Charming were parting at the end, Emma said, “no . this is how it happens.” Hook isn’t there to give information about the EF because Emma is ignorant.

 

The ball scene – I’m going to agree, it’s mostly fluff. But it was a good way to see Emma actually enjoying the life she would’ve had if the original curse hadn’t been cast and she had grown up as a princess. It also allowed Emma to let down her walls a little, feel a little more comfortable, and by extension feel the near-death of her mother even more.

 

I’m glad you acknowledge it’s fluff. I didn’t want to say it cause everyone knows I don’t ship it. I have zero issue with Emma’s walls slowly coming down and there is no denying that JMo looked amazing in that dress. But it wasn’t plot driven. And I think that’s what bothers me. It was put it maybe push her character but mostly to make the audience squeeeeeee.

 

However, I’m not sure why Emma continues to need to be the Savior

 

Well there is the idea of the final battle that has yet to come. And A and E (and Jane I think) have said that breaking the Curse was only part of her Savior-hood.

 

And in the EF, maybe Emma didn’t mention Henry, but that doesn’t mean Emma wasn’t thinking about him the entire time.

 

I don’t as for him to be brought up every 30 seconds. I ask that Emma Swan mention her true love Henry at least once when she’s in danger of being wiped from existence.

but for an hour a week, I do sit in front of the tv and have a fun ride for an hour while I’m watching.

You say this a lot and I respect it. But it’s easy to sit back and enjoy the ride when everything is coming up roses in terms of your desires. I don’t mean that disrespectfully and I’m not trying to negate what the show has put into canon. but when you keep hoping for X and Y happens instead (be it character development, shipping, interactions, LGBT representation, screen time) it’s very hard to have a mentality of “just enjoy the ride” But when you are hoping for X and X happens (again, you can make X anything here) then it’s very easy to enjoy the ride.

 

 

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Jenna_B]

Jenna_B wrote:

but for an hour a week, I do sit in front of the tv and have a fun ride for an hour while I’m watching.

You say this a lot and respect it. But it’s easy to sit back and enjoy the ride when everything is coming up roses in terms of your desires. I don’t mean that disrespectfully and I’m not trying to negate what the show has put into canon. but when you keep hoping for X and Y happens instead (be it character development, shipping, interactions, LGBT representation, screen time) it’s very hard to have a mentality of “just enjoy the ride” But when you are hoping for X and X happens (again, you can make X anything here) then it’s very easy to enjoy the ride.

Thank you.  And I understand and agree I’m pretty spoiled when it comes to the show.  But I don’t consider myself spoiled because X & X (which I’ll infer means my ship in this instance 😉 ) happened.  Because I get why people ship SF.  And that’s not an attempt to placate others on the forum, I genuinely get it.  Because – and again, I know I’m lucky – I like Emma, Hook and Neal individually and think they all have strengths and weaknesses.  (I’m admittedly a little shakier when it comes to SQ.  I would LOVE a LGBT storyline, I just don’t get that particular pairing)

But don’t get me wrong, everything has not come up roses for me (less specifically with Emma than others).  I’m still extremely upset with some major plot points, especially in 3B.  The way they handled the Rumple/Belle/Neal storyline, both before and including Neal’s death, deserved way more attention and time than it got.  Emma/Neal/Henry should have had more time to figure out how they were going to be in each others’ lives – I think there was no question that they were going to be heavily involved in each others’ lives, in some way/shape/form.  And if the show wasn’t so broad and the ensemble so incredibly large, I probably wouldn’t be able to handle the plotholes and screw ups made in OUAT as well as I do.  I certainly don’t begrudge others for being upset by the things they are upset about.  I’m just saying that, for me, there is enough going on that I still enjoy sitting down every Sunday, watching the show, and then looking back to compare and analyze.

[Phee]

Emma’s the one who knows about BTTF, not Hook. She knows not to mess history up. But then she steps on a twig.

They even made a point of having her mention BTTF and Marty McFly, so we know that she knows the movies and is thinking about them. And BTTF isn’t the ONLY story in our world about time travel. It’s a generally known thing, if you go back in time, don’t be seen and don’t change stuff!

Also, Emma knows how to blend into situations. We even saw her do it in 3B when she and Regina were on a stakeout. Remaining unseen is an actual skill she knows about because it’s a sometimes vital part of her job. We saw in the Pilot that she was pretending to be someone she wasn’t (she was even wearing a red dress in public while doing it). She should have thought “gotta find some FTL garb so I don’t stick out” all on her own, because playing the part to fool people is something she’s had to do as part of her job.

Emma possessed the necessary knowledge and tools to survive in FTL without getting herself (or anyone else) into trouble, yet they showed her as being kinda clueless and incompetent and needing all sorts of instruction. The only thing she really should have needed help with was the magical device required to get back, and she did realise that Rumple was the one person she should actually seek out and interact with because he did actually have vital knowhow that she doesn’t have herself.

[RumplesGirl]

Also, Emma knows how to blend into situations. We even saw her do it in 3B when she and Regina were on a stakeout. Remaining unseen is an actual skill she knows about because it’s a sometimes vital part of her job. We saw in the Pilot that she was pretending to be someone she wasn’t (she was even wearing a red dress in public while doing it). She should have thought “gotta find some FTL garb so I don’t stick out” all on her own, because playing the part to fool people is something she’s had to do as part of her job. Emma possessed the necessary knowledge and tools to survive in FTL without getting herself (or anyone else) into trouble, yet they showed her as being kinda clueless and incompetent and needing all sorts of instruction. The only thing she really should have needed help with was the magical device required to get back, and she did realise that Rumple was the one person she should actually seek out and interact with because he did actually have vital know how that she doesn’t have herself.

 

We can’t claim in one breath that

1) Emma needs Hook to help her navigate the big bad world of the EF because she doesn’t know how

2) She’s a great bail bonds person who “always gets her man” (312) and has excellent police/investigative/ect skills

3) She’s not a damsel in distress and that she “saves herself”

See the problem? She’s not a damsel in distress but it’s vital that Hook be there because Emma doesn’t know how to navigate the EF the way he does and she’d be lost without him but nobody saves her but her, but she’s a superior finder of people and sheriff.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

Price_Of_Magic Wrote:

Grimmsistr wrote: Belle marries the man that keeps her as a pet – Mayor Fail

I strongly disagree with this. Rumple does not keep Belle as a pet. Yes he is lying to her at the moment but we don’t know what is going on in his head or his reasons for doing so after his year long experience of being enslaved by Zelena, forced to watch his son die, and being resurrected from the dead. Rumple loves Belle, and she is probably the only one he listens to and who’s opinions he takes into consideration. He may not always listen to Belle but he certainly doesn’t treat her or keep her as a pet.

I just don’t get why she loves him. To me it looks like a case of the Stockholm Syndrom.. she said that thing about loving all of him even his darkness ->STOCKHOLM SYNDROM!!! ….. but that’s just me. So Rumplestiltzkin is no baby snatcher on Once he is a bride capturer. lol ! just kidding 🙂

And I will admit being bias here because I am and have been disappointed with the Rumple character from the very beginning (not Carlyle’s acting which is Brilliant!!) but the way Rumple character is written… and because Belle is not my favorite either, to me she is a pretty wallflower.. sorry Belle fans, but we cant all like the same things.

Price_Of_Magic Wrote:
Also I disagree about Emma being a damsel in distress just because she needed Hook’s help to navigate the customs in the EF which Emma had no experience with. Had Hook been a woman helping Emma, would Emma still be classed as a damsel in distress? It’s common sense to ask someone who knows about the EF for help if you yourself do not know what you are expected to do but are expected to do it.

Its because of the way it comes across on the show. I agree with Myril who said we need woman empowering woman. At the least just one of the main characters- Emma Regina and Snow, or two of course in that instance. Right now we have all three main characters needing a man in their lives. To doo right, to be right with themselves and to have happy (for-the-time-being) endings. I would have no problem with Emma needing Hook in EF or Regina needing Robin’s love.. neither would I have problems with damsels in distress storylines on the show, if a story of strong independent woman who didn’t need guys to make their days work was also told on the show. It used to be told on the show.. in season one and two, so I hope its just a glitch.. they will be back full force in season four 😉

Jenna_B Wrote:
However, becoming a mother doesn’t make someone perfect. It certainly doesn’t mean that a woman isn’t going to act for selfish reasons. In a perfect world, maybe – but not reality. If you want reality, then Emma is a ‘real’ mother. She’s scared out of her ever loving mind and acting/reacting due to that fear. Being a mother is scary and hard and it changes you profoundly. But it definitely does not mean every decision you make – even in the name of your child – is going to be the right decision.

Exactly !

Jenna_B Wrote:
Product of True Love: I think this is one pickle A&E really need to define. Why is being the product of true love so special when it comes to Emma?

Also one of my bigger questions: This is actually reducing Emma to a product, it even spells it out that way for us, but still the show keeps telling the viewers that we are not defined at our birth- we make our own choices- Evil is not born it is made… then how come good is born when by true love? Or can true love babies also become evil?
….It is the statement that your biology defines you that’s the problem. Being the Savior and a true love product, is then Emma’s fate/destiny then what happens to her free choice?

Im not saying its not interesting and couldn’t work out in the end, but the show should address it atlest at some point and not just leave it hanging in the air.

[Myril]

Wouldn’t call Emma a damsel in distress either, not in the EF time trip nor in present Storybrooke and pretty sure she knows how to take care of herself in our world. That is not my point, she is a hero, and the show shows her as such, she gets herself out of situations and saves others, she makes a living on her own. Look at the Have-to-give-up-powers-to-save-love trope stunt they did with Hook and the cursed lips, reversed gender roles. Emma picks the lock in Regina’s dungeon, and would probably have been out of the dungeon with Marian without Hook, Charming and Red helping, while Hook and Charming “needed” Red’s help to get in (one can argue though, they could have made it without her as well, just needed a guide, like Emma had good help with Hook in some moments).

They’ve made Emma daddy’s girl, and that is so gender role cliche though sure not unrealistic. But it’s part of the commonly accepted, rather convenient female hero trope (one not questioning roles in society). As a hero Emma can’t be mamma’s girl, nope. David is a sword-fighter, and Emma picks up sword-fighting (and magically seems to be apt with it even without any training lessons), not bow and arrow, the weapons of choice of her mother. One can argue, sword-fighting is a bit easier to do without training than using a longbow, but so what? That is technicality, this is fantasy story. I would rather rant about the miracle of Emma being able to be good at archery in just a day training with her mother as something unrealistic than not see her doing it at all (but admittedly, I find archery far more interesting than any sword wielding martial arts). Emma has positive bonding moments with David, but more awkward and conflict moments with her mother. Good old mother-daughter-is-complicated trope, while daughters somehow bond so much easier with their fathers at some point (and sons with their mothers, but won’t sidetrack with Oedipus/Electra-complex). Furthermore, while mothers are maybe good to give advice and be role-models and mentors if it comes to family, childbirth and keeping a household organized, anything concerning career (and being a hero is more of a career thing) falls under fatherly competence (gendernormed societal images). OUat is no different in this. There is nothing innovative about it, no new twists of character, it’s just retelling the same character structures and roles with some more modern language.

There is more. While it is possible, that Emma learned some burglar skills before she met Neal, all we did get to see so far was them together on a thieving tour, at least suggesting that Neal improved Emma’s burglar skills, even more so now with the scene in the final. I get the logic of the scene, making Neal the one who gave Emma words what home could mean, or be noticed as such, but to me that scene was mostly fanservice. As was the dancing ball scene with Hook btw, which though at the same time as well had a function in the over all story telling arc of season 3, a throwback to the nightmare David had (and what a symbolism is in that, but that’s for somewhere else to discuss)

It’s not like these writers know nothing about their job, they are good writers in many ways, but they are falling for many tropes nevertheless. Sometimes they do that even on purpose, can be okay with that even, but sometimes I doubt they even notice.

Emma makes her first steps in magic with Rumple mentoring her (like he mentored Cora, Regina, Zelena). Snow at least remembers something she saw watching Cora when she does the little magic trick with the ink in the cell. People have ranted, why the Blue Fairy doesn’t give some guidance to Emma while she’s trying to get a grip on her powers – well, fairy magic and human magic are different, still, she could be a guide, so good question. I know, Rumple is a main character, Blue just supporting, so less interesting to use her. But it means, Emma learning magic from Rumple so another man helping her developing her hero skills. Right, then in Neverland and Storybrooke Regina pitches in – finally a woman showing Emma to get better with her skills. There was something great in the moment when Regina and Emma joint forces to beat Pan’s magic, even though they were not that successful with it. Right, in 3B Emma trains more with Regina and as a result is able to force Zelena away from Henry, but think what people remember more is Emma using her magic as trivial tool for flirty banter with Hook, so Regina’s training was worth little.

I can see Snow and Emma relation even as realistic as it is at this stage of the show, awkward, Emma hiding behind her walls, now maybe opening up a tad more, Snow overthinking and having a hard time to accept Emma as adult daughter, struggling with her own urge to nurture a child and not just have a child. Makes all sense even. And still I find it frustrating.

Yes, I am setting the bars high here. But art is for me more than painting the world in beautiful colors, it is an exploration and discussion of our world as it is, as it was, as it could be, as we fear and wish it to be, with every means of expression we have. OUaT could be more than successful, (mostly) enjoyable entertainment, it could even be brilliant.

Savior/Mother/Product of True Love: Emma
This was brought up on the last page, I believe, that S1 introduced Emma as the Savoir/Henry’s mother and these were her defining characteristics. With this, I agree.

Yeah, Emma is: Snow White’s and Prince Charming’s daughter, the child of epic true love (that is the next level up from true love), the tool to break the first Dark Curse because Rumple made it so, the mother of the truest believer aka Henry jr., the princess bride (so to speak) of the lost son (though not lost in the biblical sense), the savior, the future queen, the assumed purveyor of the strongest light magic, the greatest threat … Can Emma be just Emma?

Throwing in as just as side-note for the moment something I think that has never been discussed so far: Emma as a (simplified) female version of King Arthur, or should say, Prince Arthur, because she is not queen yet.

And then people wonder, why Emma got so taken up with the thought of going back to New York, where she was just herself and Henry’s mother and happy? Try to imagine: You had a contemplative life, you made a good living, were not happy but at least okay, you’ve struggled to find your place in this world so turned it into a habit to be unbounded to keep yourself sane, you are used to be overlooked, but staying under the radar can be even comforting and an advantage, and then suddenly, magically, it makes kinda poof and you’re in the center of attention (the poof was Henry showing up on her doorstep, the beginning of the life change for modern world Emma). I bet, unless your some psychopath with huge hubris you will wish sooner or later to get out of the center. Getting attention, fine, feeling like being in the focus of it all time, stress.

The True Love thing…
The show is a reflection and discussion on what true love is, could be , should be, what we wish and fear it to be (right, said something alike about art). The characters or some of the story universe of the show try to explain Emma’s special (?) powers with being a product of true love. Does that mean that the writers think so as well? Not necessarily so. There is a difference of the reality of the universe the story takes place in, in theory known as diegetic reality, and the reality of the writers, reality in the perception of the audience, our daily life reality, in short there are different levels of reality in story telling.

No, it has not been answered in the reality of the show, why Emma has such special powers but not others, if that is all what there is to it, what makes Snowing’s love so more truer than any other love. I am not sure the characters can or even should answer that though. Sometimes we settle with an explanation because it is so beautiful and handy on first thought, and we stuck with first thought then, because thinking more about it might raise questions we can’t answer, and that has a tendency to make us feel uncomfortable and so we avoid it fairly often.

For the writers it is not important where the powers in detail come from, but more where it will take the character, in this case Emma. It has been the same with Elsa in the movie Frozen, she was born with her powers, and for the majority of people, inside the universe as much as outside, in the reality perceived by the audience as well as for the intention of the writers, it didn’t matter to explore the origins more. It was more of interest to see, what became of the powers, where it took Elsa and her family and people around her. It can makes sense to have an explanation in mind, just in case and to stay coherent in the story you tell, but it’s not important to always tell the story of origin.

It could have been an interesting idea to explore, how much special powers might come from other people believing someone is special. Might sound a bit wacko if thinking of magical powers, but it is something some do question when it comes to differences in measured IQ, development of skills, how pupils fare learning language or mathematics. Unfortunately they showed some electronics going sparky when Henry was born (anyone else had to think of Charmed and the birth of Wyatt?), so exploring that idea is pretty much of the table.

People keep asking why Emma and no one else, so they will probably at some point address it, might be though just with some line, unless it is something they can use as well to move the character and the story forward.

Doubt there is any satisfactory answer, but invite everyone to fanwank about it. Simple, though still unsatisfactory explanation: Snow’s and Charming’s true love is epic and had been tested more than any other, so it created something stronger than any other true love so far did or ever did since. Or could use what Rumple likes to claim, it was destiny, fate, that doesn’t need more explanation. Or the characters got it all wrong and the crucial ingredient was not true love but the special waters of Lake Nostos, as some theorized. Or we know that sometimes traits seem to skip a generation or even generations (recessive genes, should have heard that in school), so maybe should take a look at Emma’s ancestry some generations back, it took true love though to wake that dormant magic gene now in Emma.

The lack of explanation in this case doesn’t bother me much. I am with the writers in this, being more interested to explore, where the powers will take Emma

@Grimmsistr you bring up a good point. Being a product of true love is nothing of Emma’s doing, it is something she passively receives, a gift. Now there is nothing wrong with getting a gift, but it is odd, when the writers claim, that evil isn’t born but made, then what about good? And could someone born with special powers coming from true love turn evil? Yes, in OUaT it should be possible, otherwise their premise is not much worth. Remember people did ask if Zelena was a child of true love because of her being born with special, strong magical powers, but no, Zelena was not a child of true love. Not the special powers so far expressed mainly in light magic make Emma the good guy, they are just a tool to be used one or the other way. Otherwise it makes no sense at all, that Regina now was able to create light magic.

If exploring more history, origin of Emma’s character I would more dig into her foster system time, because I think that many people don’t get why the walls of Emma are so high, so persistent. Furthermore: We have explored on the show plenty of times why Regina is the person she is or where Rumple comes from, we learned about the motivations and past of Peter Pan (a bit at least) and more about Zelena and even more about Cora (and so little about Eva). The good guys are good because they are good, but evil is not born – there is an imbalance in that exploration. In my world, evil isn’t born, but neither is being good. So we have somewhat of an idea why Regina became evil with all the traumatic experience, but why does Emma with her traumatic experiences nevertheless has developed a kind of instinct doing the good thing, even though it sometimes is not the smart thing to do? Sure can think of why, but it would help to see it on the show. Doesn’t expect it to the extend as they explored the past EF, after all past EF is the background for a number of characters, but they did nothing to give more to relate better with Emma and her thinking and views and emotions, nor to let us see, why she is by intuition/instinct more one of the good guys.

P.S.: Sorry if I am sometimes very sociological geek Hope you can follow my thoughts. And keeping things short is not my thing (a miracle I can handle Twitter)

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[RumplesGirl]

I just don’t get why she loves him. To me it looks like a case of the Stockholm Syndrom.. she said that thing about loving all of him even his darkness ->STOCKHOLM SYNDROM!!! ….. but that’s just me. So Rumplestiltzkin is no baby snatcher on Once he is a bride capturer. lol ! just kidding 🙂

SS is where the victim changes but the captor stays the same. Rumple changes, and Belle learns to see the man he is. It’s not SS. But this isn’t a Rumple/Belle discussion so I’ll leave it there.

No, it has not been answered in the reality of the show, why Emma has such special powers but not others, if that is all what there is to it, what makes Snowing’s love so more truer than any other love. I am not sure the characters can or even should answer that though. Sometimes we settle with an explanation because it is so beautiful and handy on first thought, and we stuck with first thought then, because thinking more about it might raise questions we can’t answer, and that has a tendency to make us feel uncomfortable and so we avoid it fairly often.

I don’t think the writers have an explanation. She needs to be that powerful, so she simply is. I don’t have an issue with the logical “why” Snow and Charming are true love and Emma is the product of that–Jane has said that not all babies born of true love are magical, but some are. She’s the Savior because Rumple made her the Savior.

As to why Snow and Charming: it’s just where the writers started. There is no set “this is why their love is more true than all the others” It’s just super convenient to plot and story.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[killianhookfan]

Okay, so I’ll bite and join in the conversation. Being one of the golden oldies in the group I actually believe that the way they have been handling Emma’s “growth” as a women is incredibly realistic.

As a women myself who was raised to be incredibly independent and well educated, and had incredibly well educated and independent friends (and has watched numerous equally independent, well educated women “grow-up” in Fortune 100 companies) I can tell you that the path that most women find themselves on tends to be the same.

We all head out into the job force feeling empowered as women like we don’t NEED a man because we have been taught that we can do it ALL on our own. And that if we get married, it will be our CHOICE – because we don’t need a man, we could be perfectly happy being a single woman for the rest of lives. Afterall, we are well-educated, have amazing hobbies, wonderful friends, are able to financially support ourselves – we are HAPPY and comfortable with who we are and we don’t need a man to validate us.

If we DO find a guy, we will be his EQUAL – it will be a perfect partnership from the beginning, none of this head over heels, goo-goo eye stuff for us – we are strong, independent, empowered women. Our men will respect and admire us for our accomplishments, they will be impressed with our careers and our financial success. Since we can do it all ourselves, we will be calm and in control when we may be interested in someone because we know we will never have to rely on a man to support us or take care of us. Not us, we are strong, modern women.

Then we meet “the one.” And everything we THOUGHT was supposed to happen, everything we thought we were supposed to be in control of . . . suddenly it doesn’t work that way. Oh, we are STILL strong, independent, well educated women. But suddenly, there is something about this guy that is more important than all of that. Suddenly, we actually LIKE that he insists on paying for our meals and holding the doors open. We like that WANTS to take care of us even though we know we don’t NEED him too. Suddenly that thought that we really never cared if we ever got married – now we care. And I have seen this a lot in the corporate world – some women actually start to panic and don’t understand what is happening. They planned their entire life based upon what modern society told them today’s young women are SUPPOSED to feel like when it comes to all of this – then they experience it and they don’t feel the way they thought they were supposed to. How do they admit to themselves let alone anyone else that, oh my, the thought of allowing a man to take care of them is actually appealing??? The disgrace!!! Don’t get me started on what happens when these same women who said they never wanted kids hit 35 and decide they want a baby!! Like I said – I see this all the time.

This doesn’t mean that as women when we find ourselves in love with a guy that we turn off our brain or become a different person or are suddenly acting “out of character.” It means we are growing up and changing. I think this is EXACTLY what the show has been doing with Emma. When we decide that having a guy “take care” of us sounds appealing that doesn’t mean we are suddenly incapable of taking care of ourselves. We can still work, bring in our own paycheck, etc – it just means that we LIKE the idea of having a MAN there to take care of us, watch over us, protect us. And, surprise, we like the idea of taking care of HIM too. To me Snowing is a perfect example of this. I think this is exactly what they have been showing us, in real time, with CS. So to say there wasn’t a real need for Killian in the EF really isn’t a valid argument to meat all. It would be like saying that if I ended up in a horribly dangerous neighborhood at night for some reason there wouldn’t be a need for me to have my husband with me. I know self-defense, I have pepper-spray, I have a cell phone cell. Does my husband have anything else that he can really offer besides the fact that he is a man and MY PARTNER that he can offer to help me in that situation? No. But is it absolutely appropriate for him to be there. Yes. In fact, if he knew I was heading out to someplace that could potentially be dangerous, as the man who loves me and considers himself to be my partner, it would be inappropriate for him NOT to go with me – even if he doesn’t have anything else to offer. That’s just how men protect the women they love.

A woman does NOT become a damsel in distress because she realizes that she enjoys having a man she loves there to take care of her. I’m sorry if the world today has tried to convince you of this ladies. It does not make you weak or dependent to WANT a man to be there to take care of you. It also doesn’t mean that you have to turn off your own personality or abilities when you realize you feel this way. Just like when Emma told Killian that SHE was the only one who saves herself when he came to “rescue” her from jail. Yes, Emma was happy to see that he came to rescue her but she was able to do it on her own. Her personality has NOT changed, but who she is is evolving – just like who we all are evolves as we get older.

I worked at a Fortune 100 company for years and LOVED it!! Loved the work, the fast pace, the stress, the power, etc. I continued to work there after my son was born. I was one of those women in college and in my 20’s that said I could NEVER be a stay at home mom – what a waste, how could a women EVER give up her independence and become dependent on a MAN, ruin her LIFE by doing that?? It would be so boring, etc. etc. After my son was born I started to struggle with working so hard so I gave up my management position when he was about 2 and then continued to work until he was 5. Then I realized I didn’t want to miss out on field trips, I wanted to be room mom, I wanted to pick him up from school, etc. So this Fortune 100 exec quit her job and became dependent on a MAN (ha ha, right) so she could stay home. Does that mean I am “out of character”? Does that mean I am a damsel in distress? If you answer yes to either of those questions you don’t know me very well. I am exactly the same person I always was – but life changed, and as my life changed I changed along with it – that’s how life works. And that’s how characters on a TV show should work too.

End rant.

[RumplesGirl]

So to say there wasn’t a real need for Killian in the EF really isn’t a valid argument to meat all.

No one has said that there wasn’t a need for Hook. I even said he was helpful. I’m arguing against the idea that he needs to be there because Emma doesn’t know her way around the EF and doesn’t know how to blend into her surroundings. Never said anything about Hook being unneeded. In fact, this is exactly what I said

so what other information did Hook provide? He helped. Absolutely. My argument has never been that he didn’t help. but he wasn’t going around saying, “don’t touch this! it will wake the sleeping giants of the bogs and they will eat your children!”

Her personality has NOT changed, but who she is is evolving – just like who we all are evolves as we get older.

I disagree and so does JMo. And this IS NOT a “I hate CaptainSwan and Emma for kissing Hook” discussion. Like I said at the beginning, this has nothing to do with CaptainSwan. It has to do with the fact that Emma went two hours on our screen without mentioning Henry, without really being (for me) the Savior, the two things that are integral to her character. The fact that when she gets back to SB, and doesn’t take a moment to hug her child–her entire reason for being, one of the first things we ever learn about her–is nuts. I’m glad she had that moment with Snow and Charming, but Henry is Emma’s home even more than Snow and Charming. For Henry to be so shoved to the side was absurd.

As far as JMo goes: when asked on Twitter if Emma’s time in NYC would change Emma, JMo responded with a yes, it makes Emma softer and more questioning. That means her personality changes.

What EXACTLY did Emma do this season? They want Regina to be the hero–fine fine fine. But what did Emma do at all besides take long walks in the woods with the various men in her life–Hook, Charming, Neal?

312 she got her memories back so I can’t find fault in her not being Emma-like in that one

313 she was on a stake out, questioning people and focusing on Henry’s life. Total Emma

314..she walked in the woods with Hook and then waved a gun around a bit.

315..she walked in the woods with Neal

316..she declared that she was just SUPER ANGRY! and then was called am ameture and ended up doing nothing

317..she practiced magic and decided that she could TOTES MAKE IT WAY OF LIFE!!!

318…she poofs a lot of things

319…she waves a gun around, wants to go back to NYC, and tells Henry Operation Cobra never ended

320…”I need to go back to NYC.”  Oh and she takes another long walk in the woods with Hook

321/322…one epically long walk after breaking history. No mention of Henry, and she “saves the day” only after she broke it.

And that’s how characters on a TV show should work too.

Emma was doing perfectly fine raising Henry and being a sheriff/Savior/Mother before S3B. I don’t care if she wants a relationship with Hook. Go, have a relationship! Have kissy time! But it’s that everything else got sidetracked–including her mother and savior roles in order for this relationship to happen. If Emma lets Henry be sidelined in her life, then she’s not Emma Swan.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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