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"All your questions are pointless"
Do you think Emma is still a “hero” worth rooting for?
No. She’s either an empty shell or this co-dependent, obsessive person who goes to extremes to bend life to her will when things aren’t to her liking. She doesn’t mind if people get hurt during her schemes either. If Emma had been given a cursed personality, I imagine it’d be a lot like she is now. Oh, and her cursed name should be ‘Bella’.
Do you think Emma is still a “hero” worth rooting for?
I’m going to break this down into two different questions.
1) Is Emma still a hero? At the end of day, yes. Maybe not a very likable one, but there’s nothing wrong with unlikable heroes. She’s still the Savior; she’s still trying to defeat evil and save people she loves. If we define heroism like Belle with characteristics like bravery, compassion, and forgiveness, then Emma is still a hero. And, if done well, that one trait–heroism–is capable of overriding other character flaws and traits. Even outside of fiction we tend to forgive heroes anything because of “hero” status.
2) Is Emma still a person to root for? For me, no. Not really. There has always been a juvenile quality to Emma’s characterization, something JMo has talked about (playing Emma like she’s a teenage boy). I used to find it endearing because it meant there was so much room for growth. A classic bildungsroman along with her hero journey. However, the writers constantly put Emma’s emotional state back to zero every season so that any growth or development previous is almost totally undone by the next arc (how many seasons do we really need to hear about her walls, after all?) There is also the fact that he motivation for actions has, in the past few seasons, gone from her concern for her family–both blood and communal–to romantic-one person, all the time. There is a very large debate that rages over what it means to call a character weak. Most people who don’t want to call Emma weak say that being in love isn’t a sign of weakness and that it takes great strength to be vulnerable enough to let love in. I agree; however this isn’t what we mean when we say Emma has become a weak character. It means that her story isn’t her own; it’s Hook’s. Or maybe more fairly, it’s CaptainSwan’s. Everything about Emma has come down to her romantic relationship. Her own Dark Swan arc which was a chance to really delve into her lost-child, orphan psyche became all about her boyfriend. Her family–blood and communal–played almost no role and her entire metaphorical katabasis was centered around one person and one person only (doubly damning is the fact that her literal katabasis is also centered around one (the same!) person). I don’t object to characters falling in love and exploring what it means to be in a relationship as opposed to be single. I mind terrible though when that relationship takes over the entire person’s story so that nothing else matters.
Emma could still be a person to root for, but it means recentering her story so that it includes other things BESIDES her romantic entanglements.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Emma could still be a person to root for, but it means recentering her story so that it includes other things BESIDES her romantic entanglements.
I agree with this. I used to fight you on this because I really didn’t feel like just because she wanted to keep her relationship with Hook alive, meant that she wasn’t still the hero I wanted to root for. She still cared about everyone else as a savior should. She was just fighting darkness and then Hook got it and it really was just the arc of the season. But now, everything she has done, even in this back half, has been about Hook. Everything she says or talks about has been about Hook. HOOK HOOK HOOK. Which I get it, he’s stuck in the UW. And she allegedly loves the guy so yeah, when you’re in love, that’s kind of all you think about. However, it has been too much. And I’m simply going to blame the arc of the season on this, which really focused on her inner struggle with darkness and then Hook becoming the DO and then saving Hook. Now that we are out of the UW, and we got her red jacket origin story, and once Hook eventually comes back and all is right with them, I think they can recenter the story and go back to Savior Emma. They took a season to try and develop her relationship with Hook (whether they did that is not what I want to get in to), and as a result, her saviorness got pushed aside because the writers are incapable of doing both apparently.
She certainly is not lost forever. It wouldn’t take much for everyone to like her gusto again. They just need to bury the save Hook story and her emotional walls we always hear about, and get back to what makes her great.
To me there are two aspects to the question — is Emma likable/relatable and is the world building compelling enough that whatever Emma’s less likable traits might be, the audience still hopes she overcomes the external threats she faces. I think CS is only part of the problem. It’s the overall shoddy storytelling and world building that contributes to the sense that Emma is a cardboard prop battling trivial or ridiculous obstacles.
There was a line that one actor from Grimm, talking about bring dead characters to the show and he said something like this, “if we keep bringing dead characters back, or finding ways to bring them back, why would our audience feel or care about the characters, if is that easy to bring back the deads”, in a way, this goes to Emma character, does the show still needs a Savior? Is Emma still important to the show, when every season, they come with the worst villain of all villains and yet they come with silly stuff to defeat them and emma is never the responsable for that.
I think Emma title as savior ended on S1, after breaking that curse and now she is a normal character like all of them, bc if she was relevant to the story, i think having her as dark one, would have been the best way of ending the show and making emma defeating the darkness by herself, since they didnt do that, can someone tell me how is now relevant to the story is Emma? She started the S5 being called the worst of the worst villains, yet was nothing about her, was all about Hook, her flashbacks are now retcons, of previous stablish things, so i dont think the story would suffer that much if Emma would die, but stay dead for real, bc she is no longer needed, at this point even Rumple with his is good is bad is more essencial to the story and the same goes with regina, than Emma herself, heck even Belle that has no screen time, is more essencial to the story than Emma at least for me.
In the end Emma problem is not just CS, is the writing, the fact is OUAT should have ended long time ago, or at least have only 13 epis season per year, that way i think the writing would not be so bad and the characters would be way more develop than they are now with seasons with 23 episodes, where most are fillers, and each episode is a retcon of something that the characters did on previous episode.
the fact is OUAT should have ended long time ago, or at least have only 13 epis season per year, that way i think the writing would not be so bad and the characters would be way more develop than they are now with seasons with 23 episodes, where most are fillers, and each episode is a retcon of something that the characters did on previous episode.
I disagree. Basically what you are describing is what we’re getting now. Instead of getting one arc spread over 22 episodes and allowing the characters to breathe, we’re getting one arc compressed into 11 episodes and therefore everything is plot based. Snow was a moron in 3B because the arc required her to be an idiot so that Zelena could get close enough to take the baby because there wasn’t time for Zelena to worm her way into Snow’s trust circle. Snow had to immediately accept her otherwise the plot couldn’t happen in the timeframe given. Rumple had a complete character flip in 4A because the arc needed him to be a villain yet there wasn’t time to show his gradual slide back into villainy, it was a flick a switch deal.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI disagree. Basically what you are describing is what we’re getting now. Instead of getting one arc spread over 22 episodes and allowing the characters to breathe, we’re getting one arc compressed into 11 episodes and therefore everything is plot based. Snow was a moron in 3B because the arc required her to be an idiot so that Zelena could get close enough to take the baby because there wasn’t time for Zelena to worm her way into Snow’s trust circle. Snow had to immediately accept her otherwise the plot couldn’t happen in the timeframe given. Rumple had a complete character flip in 4A because the arc needed him to be a villain yet there wasn’t time to show his gradual slide back into villainy, it was a flick a switch deal.
No, im describing one season of 13 episodes, not 2 arcs, that would mean that they would have more time to think the show and storylines and they could even film the show before airs, with no fan knowing what is going on the plot. Also, another idea to make the show and fanfom much better( even tho not related to this thread) would be moving the filming to somewhere else, would be good to the show, bc vancouver is very spoiler release.
I think the problem has more to do with the fact that the arcs have little to no connection to one another instead of one arc builds the other and everything is connected and builds ONE LARGER STORY.
"All your questions are pointless"
No, im describing one season of 13 episodes, not 2 arcs
But that’s what I’m saying. We’re essentially getting that now. Neverland arc was 11 episodes. Oz arc was 11 episodes. Frozen arc was 11 episodes. QOD arc was 11 episodes. Dark Swan was 11 episodes. Underworld arc is 11 episodes. The only difference between what you’re saying and what we’re getting now is that we’re getting two “seasons” in one year.
I think the problem has more to do with the fact that the arcs have little to no connection to one another instead of one arc builds the other and everything is connected and builds ONE LARGER STORY.
I agree. Also they don’t flesh out the arcs they have beyond basic plot. A good example would be the Neverland arc
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
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