episode summary

[Phee]

@Lorem Ipsum wrote:

So which character knows about the curse, knows about the savior and had a way to escape the curse without jeopardizing Emma’s escape?

I still think there’ll be a loophole that allowed Pinocchio to escape the curse at the same time as Emma, (not necessarily in the same way though).

Edited to add: Perhaps Blue Fairy told a lie when she said only one person could be saved in any way? Perhaps, in an effort to make sure Emma was safe, Blue Fairy arranged for Pinocchio to go with her somehow? She wouldn’t make this public knowledge, because if someone evil got wind of the fact there was a protector going with the saviour, that would defeat the purpose of sending a protector. So she sent Pinocchio, possibly with the picture of the dagger we see August with in this ep, because it was going to prove to be a tool that he’d need to use one day against Rumple.

@Lorem Ipsum wrote:

Ok, I just thought of something else! Sorry, I know I’m rambling. Just trying to get my thoughts in order or hope someone can help me make sense of them!

That’s how it works with this show. One thought leads to another and another and before you know it your brain is totally twisted in knots. LOL

@Lorem Ipsum wrote:

In the Disney movie of Peter Pan, Peter Pan’s secret hideout is a tree, right?

Could it be the same tree?

Did the Blue Fairy take Bae through the tree to Neverland resulting in Rumple hating fairies and remarking that he “lost” his son?

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Hangman%27s_Tree
You just gave me another idea. Was already working on a theory that Blue Fairy does something in this ep that results in Rumple losing Bae (which is why Mr Gold hates the nuns). Maybe she sends him away somewhere through that tree to protect him from his father. I’ve never discounted the possibility that Bae could be a Lost Boy, or maybe even Peter Pan, (I think it’s a likely theory because it’s the only way to explain how he could still be alive centuries later), and even if they can’t do Peter Pan stuff on the show at this point in time, they wouldn’t even hafta mention Neverland specifically, she could just say he’s gone somewhere he’ll be safe, and they can pick his story up in season 2 or something, once they have the rights to use Peter Pan stuff. And that tree would be the same enchanted tree they use for Emma.

Only glitch in that theory is they had to fashion it into a vessle to hold a person to transport them, which obviously wouldn’t have happened with Bae if he’d been sent through the tree at a different time. Hmmmm.

Edited to add: Someone on another forum speculated about Morraine being in this ep because we’ll see Rumple go to save the children from war. That lead me to wonder, what if Rumple suceeds, and a bunch of kids get away, and to help them escape, Blue Fairy tells the children to run into the tree. Her motive would probably be to get them away from Rumple, who she believes to be dangerous, so she won’t tell Rumple where the children have gone. The kids will end up in Neverland where Bae becomes Peter Pan, Morraine becomes Wendy, the other kids become the Lost Boys. Then we could pick up their story next season whenever they get the legalities of using Neverland stuff sorted out.

If Blue Fairy interjects, it explains why Mr Gold hates the nuns. I’m also thinking that if a whole bunch of kids get sent away along with Bae, maybe that’s what makes Rumple start acquiring children for those who have none. Like he’s trying to make up for all those parents who lost their children when he ALMOST saved them from war and brought them home, but not quite.

If Rumple lost Bae in this fashion, where he was sent to another world, but Rumple didn’t know where, it could explain why he’d suspect August of being Bae, escaped from whever he was sent to. This guy shows up and he knows Mr Gold, knows about the dagger, so it’s resonable that Mr Gold may start to wonder and hope if August could be his son. But he’s not, because his son is still in Neverland.

[mtnmama]

All this talk of sending kids away, reminds me of the Pied Piper. If I recall, one child from that Fairy Tale was lame and couldn’t follow the rest of the kids.

[enchantedone]

@KalliopeKisees wrote:

Could be Bae and perhaps a member of the lost boys. Pan does not age. Lost boys age, but I think at a slower rate

Oh dear…didn’t think of this…but if Rumple makes a deal with his son in this episode and Robert has said in interviews that Rumple does and it ends badly…then maybe Rumples deal turn BAe into Pan and he doesn’t age…that would suck…and it could explain why Rumple wants the curse broken…if it is broken then Bae can grow up.

[hjbau]

It is also possible that Bae gets killed because of whatever Rumpel does. I still think the most likely end is that Rumpel killed Bae and Bae’s mother or is at least responsible for them being killed. Though he could just think they are dead like he does with Belle.

[theoniongirl]

@MtnMama wrote:

All this talk of sending kids away, reminds me of the Pied Piper. If I recall, one child from that Fairy Tale was lame and couldn’t follow the rest of the kids.

Ooooh, yes. If I remember right, three children escaped. One was lame, one was blind and one was deaf. Interesting …

Some people think that story might reflect the Children’s Crusades. Which kind of reminds me of the Ogre Wars …

---
“Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.”
-- Dylan Thomas

[surayya]

Lol all I got from that was August has tripped Mr Gold’s WTH radar & he wants to figure out who he is & what his agenda is- after all it is Rumps & his master plan that (ultimately) got everyone where they are now, woe betide anyone who messes with his master plan/s 😉

Ive now started Really hoping he’s not Pino now (didnt really care to much before who he was lol).
I want him to be ‘more’ than an ex-wooden puppet- that just seems kinda lame to me lol I want him to be way more special than ‘just’ another average FTL character.
I Really hope if he is Pino, they come up with a tight reason for it & how (cause turning him into wood makes no sense- the wardrobe STAYED in FTL so, so would have he if he was part of it! + sending a kid through is stupid when the thing was built to take a preggers adult- Way to many ‘ignore or twist this & those facts’, with the current Pino theories going around for me atm).

I dont know if things get serious between August & Emma – we may see him ….. pass on, Regina doesnt seem the type to let anyone have a happy ever after & if striking out at August gets her to back of Henry, I have 0 doubts she’ll hold back there o.O

[Phee]

@Surayya wrote:

sending a kid through is stupid when the thing was built to take a preggers adult-

Was it really though? Honestly, it woulda been a TIGHT squeeze for 9 months pregnant Snow to fit in that thing. Which makes me think that she was never actually meant to go in it. I think Blue Fairy somehow knew that Emma would be born at exactly the right moment to go into that tree without her mother.

Snow and Charming were kissing right when she went into labor. Maybe something in that particular kiss was a trigger that ensured Emma was born exactly when she was supposed to be? If true love’s kiss can break a curse, and if EQ’s curse was about to hit, and Emma had to be born before it hit to guarantee her safe escape, I’d buy it that that particular kiss was a link in the chain reaction that’s been playing out from before that moment and ever since, link by link governing Emma’s life, turning her into the person she’s become, and eventually bringing her to Storybrooke.

I’m not a huge fan of the theory where Pinocchio was turned back into wood to transport him, because as you say Surayya, the tree didn’t actually GO anywhere, so him being in the physical form of wood from that tree wouldn’t be any advantage as far as I can tell.

I just went back to watch the scene where Blue Fairy is telling them about the tree…
“The tree is enchanted. If fashioned into a vessel, it can ward off any curse.”
She didn’t specify, “This one time only, it’ll work if it’s fashioned into a wardrobe.”
The word “vessel” can mean several things, including:
“a person regarded as an agent or vehicle for some purpose or quality: she was the vessel of the Lord“
PuppetPinocchio’s body could be considered a vessel for his human spirit which came later. So maybe he was already protected from this curse, by virtue of being made from that particular tree.

Note that Blue Fairy didn’t even actually say that the tree would transport the “one” to another world, just that it would “ward off any curse” and “it can protect only one”. Maybe the transportation to our world actually had nothing to do with the tree itself, but rather was an additional spell that Blue Fairy had to enact. If that were the case, she could have done the same spell for Pinocchio, who already had protection from the curse because his body was originally a vessel made from the tree.

Or Blue Fairy was straight up lyin’ to them all and it could in fact protect more than one, it’s just that not all of them were destined to be saved at that point in time, because things had to work themselves out in due course.

Either way, I believe they can quite easily get around the transportation issues without having to retcon anything.

[pandoras imp]

I think it’s highly possible that something with enough power for one pregnant adult would have enough power for a child and a baby.

I see it playing out with Blue Fairy as well and she is the one who sends Pinocchio through the wardrobe first to so he can be there when Emma goes through, I’m sure she knows the baby will be born before Snow could go through.

The longer I have to wait for the episode the more I really want August to be Pinocchio. It just opens up so much potential for the character, and I would love to see the reunion of him and Gepetto.

On the other hand the more I think of it the less I like the Bae idea. The main theme of magic in the show is it always comes with a price and that great power requires great sacrifice. Losing Bae was that sacrifice, intentional or not, I kinda think he has to pay that in order to be true to the character.

He is a perfect example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Starting out only wanting good but ending up on a long dark path that costs him dearly. I want the character to find redemption but I think that will be with Belle – eventually, not with his son.

[Snickerdoodle]

I am laughing my head off at just reading all these ideas. The writers have to be pleased!
Rumple has to be the Pied Piper. I hope they do that one, somehow.

Still rooting for August to be Peter Pan and I suppose a crossover story to Bae. Although, I have to admit there are some good arguments for the Wizard of OZ, although I have a harder time seeing how that would fit into the storyline right now, but I like it. I see the logic in the arguments for Pinnochio, but I think it seems too obvious. He was the first character everyone seemed to think of.

[surayya]

@Phee wrote:

@Surayya wrote:

sending a kid through is stupid when the thing was built to take a preggers adult-

Was it really though? Honestly, it woulda been a TIGHT squeeze for 9 months pregnant Snow to fit in that thing. Which makes me think that she was never actually meant to go in it. I think Blue Fairy somehow knew that Emma would be born at exactly the right moment to go into that tree without her mother.

Snow and Charming were kissing right when she went into labor. Maybe something in that particular kiss was a trigger that ensured Emma was born exactly when she was supposed to be? If true love’s kiss can break a curse, and if EQ’s curse was about to hit, and Emma had to be born before it hit to guarantee her safe escape, I’d buy it that that particular kiss was a link in the chain reaction that’s been playing out from before that moment and ever since, link by link governing Emma’s life, turning her into the person she’s become, and eventually bringing her to Storybrooke.

I’m not a huge fan of the theory where Pinocchio was turned back into wood to transport him, because as you say Surayya, the tree didn’t actually GO anywhere, so him being in the physical form of wood from that tree wouldn’t be any advantage as far as I can tell.

I just went back to watch the scene where Blue Fairy is telling them about the tree…
“The tree is enchanted. If fashioned into a vessel, it can ward off any curse.”
She didn’t specify, “This one time only, it’ll work if it’s fashioned into a wardrobe.”
The word “vessel” can mean several things, including:
“a person regarded as an agent or vehicle for some purpose or quality: she was the vessel of the Lord“
PuppetPinocchio’s body could be considered a vessel for his human spirit which came later. So maybe he was already protected from this curse, by virtue of being made from that particular tree.

Note that Blue Fairy didn’t even actually say that the tree would transport the “one” to another world, just that it would “ward off any curse” and “it can protect only one”. Maybe the transportation to our world actually had nothing to do with the tree itself, but rather was an additional spell that Blue Fairy had to enact. If that were the case, she could have done the same spell for Pinocchio, who already had protection from the curse because his body was originally a vessel made from the tree.

Or Blue Fairy was straight up lyin’ to them all and it could in fact protect more than one, it’s just that not all of them were destined to be saved at that point in time, because things had to work themselves out in due course.

Either way, I believe they can quite easily get around the transportation issues without having to retcon anything.

Yes it was designed to take a preggers SW- the plan was, send SW through to save Emma & therefore everyone else (I will buy if Rumps was the one fibbing & he just needed SW & PC to believe Emma was FTL savior in order to set his plans into action- but then that will make Emma a darn sight less special & a whole lot more pathetic in that she had her life, home & family stripped from her, just so Rumps could do his thing).
Please remember the Blue Fairy didnt make the wardrobe, Gep did (BF only ASKED if he could make it, she didnt tell him to make it!) & to do that likely took plans which SW & PC will have seen- it is their child after all- trust or not, youd want to see the vessel being built which was to save your ONLY child & your entire world 🙂
Not only that but it was Doc that told PC, who had SW in his arms ready to carry her to the wardrobe, NOT to move SW into the wardrobe as she was to close to having baby pop out. PC a much taller broader male than SW could have squeezed into that wardrobe, he’d have to duck sure but he would have fit- the inside is hollowed out & the tree is almost as tall is he was & like 99% of household doors (my own wardrobe included) they are much lower than the ceiling or internal height. The images we see looking through the wardrobe show the internal space as being much more hollowed out than just from the door down & last but not least – its TV, budget is budget, if you can use a smaller scale model because its not a major feature in many scenes, you do, also it was a baby that had to be placed init at the end of the day, they have to make it as safe as possible for the baby with a bunch of cameras & set dressings all around- just because it doesnt look entirely large enough doesnt mean it isnt when you take into consideration we’ve been told SW is/was going to go through (I can point out a bunch of things that are a given on the show yet wouldnt work in reality & it all comes down to budget & what they expect you to buy into) lol 😉

OK this is EXACTLY what BF states & the context its used under re the tree & Emma:
PC “What the hell is this”
BF”Our only hope of saving the child”
Grumpy “A tree?!, our fate rests on a tree?! Lets get back to the fighting thing”
BF “The tree is enchanted, if fashioned into a vessel it can ward off any curse” ……. Now the term vessel used in this context = 1. A hollow utensil, such as a cup, vase, or pitcher, used as a container, especially for liquids. Or in this case a wardrobe.
Possibly 2. Nautical craft, especially one larger than a rowboat, designed to navigate on water. Or An airship.
Doesn’t fit at all given the context of this conversation & the fact she’s had a tree hauled into the council room & stated it’s use will save them all by fashioning it into 3. Anatomy A duct, canal, or other tube that contains or conveys a body fluid: a blood vessel. Nor 4. Botany One of the tubular conductive structures of xylem, consisting of dead cylindrical cells that are attached end to end and connected by perforations. They are found in nearly all flowering plants. & certainly not 5. A person seen as the agent or embodiment, as of a quality: a vessel of mercy.)

Cont BF speech/scene/s:
BF “Gep, can you build such a thing?”
Gep “Me & my boy WE can do it”
BF “This will work, we ALL must have faith. There is however a catch, the enchantment is indeed powerful, but all power has its limits & this tree can PROTECT only one” Now she clearly said point blank here 1, Not 2, 1 (so if they send another through via that same tree & they are PROTECTED from the curse ie have memories in tack & happiness in their lives, then I’ll be really annoyed as that is a massive discrepancy in the story arc & if it’s handled like that its just poor writing- which I highly doubt is likely given what they’ve presented us with so far).

No she didnt say it transports the person in it- that is just a given (at least it is for me & everyone Ive spoken to about it, quite aside from the fact that SW says something like it needs to take her away)- the savior/ infant can hardly grow up/survive & save anyone if they’re either stuck buried under some mines below SB or the only being left in FTL lol 😉 So its was just plain logic that the wardrobe/tree was chosen to protect the person inside it from that particular type of curse (SW & or PC put the word out after the Rumps bombshell to try confirm what they’d been told re EQ & curse (see EP 1 at beginning of council discussion), as well as how exactly they could save their kid from it etc & BF found them that way) & so the person init would be taken to the same place as everyone else who is cursed touched but yet be protected from the curse.

Yeah sorry but if we go with the good guys are just lying, then we have to consider everything we’ve heard out of every ‘good’ guy’s mouth is all just lies 🙄 – so nope, Im not buying that one as we’ve seen Zero evidence for it nor anything that could even be termed a lie from BF- she was straight up & honest with Grumpy re Nova, telling him point blank it was HIS choice to go with Nova or not, so that doesn’t count as being dishonest either lol 😉 )- Nowhere has BF outright lied that we’ve seen, if anything shes been the total oppisit- totally & brutally honest, even if the FTL folk wouldnt like the truth of the words (only one can use the tree & be protected, Nova will have to give up her dream of being a fairy god mother if she leaves fairy land etc)- that doesnt make her evil or devious- as much as it might tick ya off lol 😉 We do know there are good & bad fairies in FTL tho as SW told PC this when he asked her what her ‘dust’ was & she responded that it was not from a “good” fairy.

If August is Pino -then for me, it better have had NOTHING to do with going through that wardrobe, if he got to reality another way (as long as its good & makes sense) I’ll just not have August as a fav character but will otherwise buy it lol 😉

@sjm wrote:

The writers have to be pleased!

I know right 😀

[Author]

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